±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 224
Total: 224
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Home
21: Home
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Home
26: Home
27: Home
28: Home
29: Home
30: Home
31: Home
32: Home
33: Home
34: Home
35: Home
36: Home
37: Home
38: Home
39: Home
40: Home
41: Home
42: Home
43: Home
44: Your Account
45: Home
46: Home
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Photo Gallery
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Photo Gallery
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Your Account
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: News Archive
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Photo Gallery
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: News Archive
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Home
110: Community Forums
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Home
115: Home
116: Home
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Downloads
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Member Screenshots
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Photo Gallery
143: Community Forums
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Your Account
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Statistics
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Home
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Your Account
172: Home
173: Home
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: News Archive
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Home
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Photo Gallery
192: Home
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Home
197: Home
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Home
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: News Archive
206: Community Forums
207: Home
208: Downloads
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Home
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
VFW Post 745 - Newark, DE - M3 Gallery
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
vagabond
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Dec 05, 2009
Posts: 1388
Location: Constantly moving across US
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:20 am
Post subject: VFW Post 745 - Newark, DE - M3 Gallery

Hi All,

We’ve posted a gallery of photos of M3 Lee SN2 on display at VFW Post 745 in Newark, DE.

Question for the experts: What is the significance of the 3’s stamped on the front tow lugs?

www.vgbimages.com/AFV-...552_j8xvp2



Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:54 am
Post subject: Re: VFW Post 745 - Newark, DE - M3 Gallery

I thought it was SN 3 but I haven't looked at my pictures of it for a long while. Isn't there a 3 on at least one of the rear tow lugs? I first mentioned that tank in the original 'AFV News discussion board years ago (like 2001) Joe DeMarco followed up on it back then.

It was the first Chrysler produced M3 and owned by Chrysler Corp. was used for publicity photos way back when (It is the M3 pushing a telephone pole in early publicity photos). It sat outside the Newark tank factory (later a Chrysler car factory) and was owned by the Chrysler Museum. It was moved at some point to the VFW. If you look at the lower hull you will see what appear to be penetrations of the hull (presumibly by solid AP shot)

Does the sign in front of it still say M3A5?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:23 am
Post subject: Re: VFW Post 745 - Newark, DE - M3 Gallery

This is the first M3 (or any tank) built at Detroit Tank Arsenal. It is SN 2. DTA stamped the tank's SN on all four lugs but the differential housings were obviously replaceable so the front doesn't always match the rear. Early on final drives were in short supply so they got swapped around as needed. Tank SN 2 ended up with the differential housing from SN 3.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
vagabond
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Dec 05, 2009
Posts: 1388
Location: Constantly moving across US
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:04 pm
Post subject: Re: VFW Post 745 - Newark, DE - M3 Gallery

Bob - Yes, the sign still reads M3A5 - see below.

Kurt - Thanks for the answer! Did ALL tanks produced at DTA have the SN stamped on all four tow lugs? Did it start out that way and change as production increased?

Also below is the photo that Neil linked to in the AFV Register showing the M3 in a 50's Chrysler promo.



Back to top
View user's profile
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:54 pm
Post subject: Re: VFW Post 745 - Newark, DE - M3 Gallery

- vagabond
Kurt - Thanks for the answer! Did ALL tanks produced at DTA have the SN stamped on all four tow lugs? Did it start out that way and change as production increased?


For the M3 series and M4A4 they did. It doesn't seem to have lasted into their large hatch tanks. In any case, stampings on the rear lugs are definitive because they are welded on.

See also my handy-dandy guide: www.scribd.com/doc/194...-Locations

Also below is the photo that Neil linked to in the AFV Register showing the M3 in a 50's Chrysler promo.


Geez, everyone thought the M3 had too big of a silhouette . . .

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
vagabond
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Dec 05, 2009
Posts: 1388
Location: Constantly moving across US
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:22 pm
Post subject: Re: VFW Post 745 - Newark, DE - M3 Gallery

Thanks again, Kurt!

I'm downloading a number of items from your treasure trove on scribd as I write this.

Cheers,
PH
Back to top
View user's profile
ChrisC
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:48 pm
Post subject: Re: VFW Post 745 - Newark, DE - M3 Gallery

In "Tanks are Mighty Fine Things" it is mentioned that the first tank built at DATP was saved by Chrysler and sent to a museum, is this it? I have to find that passage in the book again.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
ChrisC
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:05 pm
Post subject: Re: VFW Post 745 - Newark, DE - M3 Gallery

Question, since the heritage of this tank seems well documented, why is it sitting where it is? I mean, once the Army ID'd "Cobra King" it was swept up rather fast, and this tank is just as important in my opinion. Just kind of wondering out loud...
Is this tank an Army loan? Some of the stuff I read suggest that it was given to Chrysler at the end of the war, who actually "owns" it?
I admit that I am a bit biased, our museum would like to see this tank come "home"
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:16 pm
Post subject: Re: VFW Post 745 - Newark, DE - M3 Gallery

The tank is owned by the VFW. It was originally paid for by donations from Chrysler-Plymouth dealers and given to the Government by Chrysler. (In fact, Ordnance later insisted that Chrysler give them a "make up" tank on a later order because Ordnance did not count SN 2 against the contract quantities as it was a donation.) The Government returned the tank to Chrysler, free and clear, and Chrysler turned it over to the VFW. This has all been documented, BTW.

If it wasn't for various Chrysler bankruptcies it would have gone "home", back to a corporate museum in Detroit.

Cobra King never left Army possession. It was on a military base in Germany where it had been left for decades.

One more thing, the Army never "ID'd" Cobra King. It was a Chaplain at the base with an interest in WW II and Joe DeMarco over here. Even after receiving overwhelming evidence of its historical significance the Army still didn't believe them or act for months if not years. If it wasn't for those two it would probably be sitting in a storage area somewhere, or made into railroad rails.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
ChrisC
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:05 am
Post subject: Re: VFW Post 745 - Newark, DE - M3 Gallery

Thanks Kurt, that fills in some of the missing bits in my info on this tank. I thought the tank was turned over to Chrysler at wars end. The fact that this vehicle exists outside the army loan system makes it an interesting case... does anyone know just how "attached" this VFW is to this vehicle?

I know the "Cobra King" story is more complex, but I use it as an example, the FT17's in Afghanistan or the Sherman 105 from Udari also come to mind, I would think this vehicle would have been something the Army would have wanted for their "Museum of the US Army" project, but the fact that it is not on their loan register explains many things.

I know its a pipe dream, but our museum is less than 5 miles from the old DATP, and it would be such an honor to bring this old girl home. If nothing else, I am planning a trip to visit and stand in the shadow of this vehicles history.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum