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JG300-Ascout

- XcalibeR

Hey guys, just a reminder to try and connect your quizzes with something here at CC Not a requirement, but it's more fun that way

OH! I thought it was jes' aviation-related....

Welllllll.....with that in mind, let's just say a particular aircraft recently featured in a movie here at CC figures prominently in my question (Hint: that's why Fr8ycat is kinda' disqualified..."he knows too much"...the matter has been referred to Internal Affairs for final disposition) and the history of that type (among others) is the basis of the question(s).

Kitform

- JG300-Ascout

"Google is disallowed"...if you just specify the aircraft, I'll know you cheated!

That's me stumped then. Mr. Green

JG300-fr8ycat

Ascout,

Just wanted to see you cringe when my name appeared.

I hereby officially retire from the quiz posts...........unless no one answers, cause I digs a hand rolled smoke...........eeehhhh hhheemmmm..........I mean incense.

(get your mind out of the garbage, I'm talkin bout tobacco)

JG300-Ascout

- fr8ycat

Ascout,

Just wanted to see you cringe when my name appeared.

I hereby officially retire from the quiz posts...........unless no one answers, cause I digs a hand rolled smoke...........eeehhhh hhheemmmm..........I mean incense.

(get your mind out of the garbage, I'm talkin bout tobacco)

Aww...I think I could part with one for you anyway. Send some to yer' dad.

If you've never seen incense rolled, it's an amazingly tedious and repetitive task. Take one part incense, several parts fine sawdust, add water to make a dry paste, and roll on sticks with what amounts to a square trowel. Then leave out to dry. EVERY stick is made by hand this way.

JG300-Stoopy

Well let's have a try...although, I haven't any good reference material nor gone to a couple sites that I know might give some info (without google) , I'll try to tackle this one purely on what I can guess at....the odds are very good I'm wrong but the hand-rolled incense stick would compliment the paper cone-shaped pack of cigarettes on my desk that a coworker brought back from India, that also have a suspiciously familiar hand-rolled, unfiltered and tapered shape to them (and are pretty strong!).

Fun to guess tho, so here goes at what I understand are the parameters:

What is the historical composition of a "Pink team" and a "Heavy Pink Team" (what two aircraft would be involved)?

Well it's strictly a helo question so they must strictly be helos....I'll guess, an OH-6 Cayuse (fr8ycat relationship) and, oh, how about a UH-1 Huey gunship (since they were common, available, and worked well in teams, with the Cayuse being pretty lightly armed).

What is the "role" of each in this application?
I'd guess they performed some kind of search and destroy, scout/killer mission with the fast, nimble Cayuse going out to scare up fire and the gunship laying low or loitering to come in and lay down some destruction?

What is the significance of the color in this context, and from what does it derive?
The layman in me wants to say "killin pinko commie VC" but if I were to follow the logic of my guess above, it may have something to do with smoke markers? Say, white phosphorous to mark a target by the OH-6 (like a FAC) and oh, I dunno....red from the firepower or VC blood being sprayed about making a fine mist in the air from the rotor wash hehe heh....too graphic......OK, the red is used to mark something, but what? A clear LZ for inbound troops? Ahh, this changes my answer above maybe....or maybe related....judges call, probably wrong anyway!

Extra credit for a third type that might accompany the two primary aircraft?

UH-1 troop carrier? Oh, dang, what's that big Sikorsky that was used....CH53? Arrrggg, must...resist...the...urge....to.....google....I don't know, dangit!

Extra credit if you can identify the color not included, but usually represented in the units operating Pink Teams). What are the typical associations of the two (or three, if you're going for bonus points) colors represented?

Thank gawd it's extra credit 'cause I have no clue nor guess as to the typical associations.....

How close was I?

JG300-Ascout

- JG300-Stoopy

Fun to guess tho, so here goes at what I understand are the parameters:

What is the historical composition of a "Pink team" and a "Heavy Pink Team" (what two aircraft would be involved)?

Well it's strictly a helo question so they must strictly be helos....I'll guess, an OH-6 Cayuse (fr8ycat relationship) and, oh, how about a UH-1 Huey gunship (since they were common, available, and worked well in teams, with the Cayuse being pretty lightly armed).

Righto on the OH-6A Cayuse, Wrongo on the UH-1 as the second primary component of the team (Big hint there, though...two in fact)

What is the "role" of each in this application?
I'd guess they performed some kind of search and destroy, scout/killer mission with the fast, nimble Cayuse going out to scare up fire and the gunship laying low or loitering to come in and lay down some destruction?

OK, now you're getting really warm. Right on the mission, wrong on the typical type of gunship in the team. I'm excluding UH-1C models, because that's not the archtype for a Pink Team, though it was probably done sometime. Think successor

What is the significance of the color in this context, and from what does it derive?
The layman in me wants to say "killin pinko commie VC" but if I were to follow the logic of my guess above, it may have something to do with smoke markers? Say, white phosphorous to mark a target by the OH-6 (like a FAC) and oh, I dunno....red from the firepower or VC blood being sprayed about making a fine mist in the air from the rotor wash hehe heh....too graphic......OK, the red is used to mark something, but what? A clear LZ for inbound troops? Ahh, this changes my answer above maybe....or maybe related....judges call, probably wrong anyway!

OK, here you've drifted way off topic. Not talking about smoke (which was, in fact, used as you suggest) but the designation of the "Team". Hint: "Pink" is not a primary color, it is comprised of component parts, each representing a military "component", so-to-speak. Or part military component, one a color-of-convention and convenience. Hint: Artillery dudes are sometimes referred to as "redlegs". What does artillery have in abundance and size? (....and no, it has nothing to do with "Panama Red"!)

Extra credit for a third type that might accompany the two primary aircraft?

UH-1 troop carrier? Oh, dang, what's that big Sikorsky that was used....CH53? Arrrggg, must...resist...the...urge....to.....google....I don't know, dangit!

OK, this one is a judgement call. You got the aircraft type correct in one answer, but not the usual mission.....nevertheless, the judges will allow it. UH-1 it typically was (not particularly as troop carrier...."C&C"...Command and Control...and emergency rescue if one of the primary components goes in.) You've previously identified the aircraft, but in the wrong role. Oh...the 53's were, best of my knowledge, strictly an Air Force ride...."Jolly Green Giants" they was (early iteration) and used most commonly for pilot rescues like "bright light" mission and other SAR...'cuz they had the range.

Extra credit if you can identify the color not included, but usually represented in the units operating Pink Teams). What are the typical associations of the two (or three, if you're going for bonus points) colors represented?

Thank gawd it's extra credit 'cause I have no clue nor guess as to the typical associations.....

How close was I?

Not even on the last one. See the previous item. Don't think literal colors on the battlefield, think branch-of-arms symbology, or something like that. If you nail the first two, the third color will become apparent. Have a look at this crest for the 1st Armored Division. Make one substitution, and you've got it....or....think of the old "Red, white and blue" for guidance.

Keep working at it, you've got a good start going..... Laughing

JG300-Stoopy

Hmmmm......okay I did have a second guess at the ready for the second aircraft and I believe your hints may confirm it....

What is the historical composition of a "Pink team" and a "Heavy Pink Team" (what two aircraft would be involved)?

OH-6 Cayuse and Cobra attack helicopter (available in the later stages of the war)

What is the "role" of each in this application?
I'd guess they performed some kind of search and destroy, scout/killer mission with the fast, nimble Cayuse going out to scout & scare up fire and the Cobra gunship stepping up to the plate to bat cleanup?

What is the significance of the color in this context, and from what does it derive?
OK, different branches of service as per the hint (*thank you*), the Loach belonging to Army and the Cobra being...Air Force? Wait, scratch that - the CH53 was Air Force and you didn't bite on that as a service branch. Marines.

Extra credit for a third type that might accompany the two primary aircraft?

Now we're talking UH-1,acting as air mobile C&C to stay on top of the situation(s) as needed?

Extra credit if you can identify the color not included, but usually represented in the units operating Pink Teams). What are the typical associations of the two (or three, if you're going for bonus points) colors represented?

It's times like this I wish I had been in the service or paid more atention in history class!! I'll say the additional color not included is blue of course per your example, the other colors being white and red. The associations are blue would be the command segment, white the scouts, and red the gunship.....although I'm probably wrong because red is artillery which would be army and white would be the gunship. When I think of red, white and blue, I think of the flag and thought the red represented blood lost in the battle for our freedom. I'm okay on not getting extra credit here because I wouldn't know unless told.

Man I hope I won because otherwise you're gonan be bangin' your head on the keyboard in frustration!

JG300-Stoopy

Artillery dudes are sometimes referred to as "redlegs". What does artillery have in abundance and size?

Dangit I know my answers won't be correct and it hinges on putting this hint together. All I can think of is..... cannon... howitzers.... shells....firepower.

Well either way I'm looking forward to learning more here so don't mind being incorrect......fascinating and engaging topic as always.

I'm tempted to equate the red assignment to artillery but can't make a helo connection.....then I want to think of an airborne artillery platform like... oh dang can't think of the name......like Puff the Magic Dragon, you know the C-47 with the miniguns and all, but that's fixed-wing.......man you have my grey matter squirming on this!!!!

JG300-Ascout

OK, you've got the aircraft and mission straight, but color is hanging you up. A "Pink Team" traditionally is an all Army construct.

What artillery has in conspicuous abundance is guns.

See the 1st AD patch...see them colors? An armor division (historically) is made up of three of the major combat components, because put all together, what you get is a tank. Thus, an armor division combines the firepower of artillery (red), the mobility of cavalry (yellow), and the flexible ground component of infantry (blue)...this is the essence of combined arms. In fact, the aerorifle platoons of an air cavalry troop (or, as in my case, the aerorifle troop of an air cavalry sqdn.) were typically just called the "blues" or "blues platoon". A lot of this is getting lost these days as we move from armored divisions to HBUA's and BUA'S ("Brigade Units of Action...regular and Heavy). We may soon not even have cavalry units in regimental strength (though the American Cavalry was not even referred to as such originally...but as "dragoons" (as in, "Drag dem goons over here and send 'em out on a funky recon mission....") Laughing

You got the "white" thing pegged, so put it together for us on the whole "Pink Team" thing and come on in for the big win! Tell us what makes a "Pink Team"....pink!

Go to this page:
www.vhpamuseum.org/air...raft.shtml
..and scroll down to this item (on the left):
www.vhpamuseum.org/air...ink1sm.jpg

and read a fairly concise explanation of the concept (scanned from my 1971 copies of Army Aviation Digest...the pics are black&white, so it's not possible to determine if it's "B" troop (white band on tail boom) or "C"Troop (blue band on tail boom). Either way, it's one of my squadron's air cav troops.

JG300-Stoopy

OK.....I was wrong on the service branches, but it equates to units or actually roles in the mission. A Pink team is comprised of mixing a recon scout (white) with a gunship (red) to make a deadly S&D or close support combo that is in reality, Red Hot (see I read it).

It does not (that I saw) explain what a HEAVY pink team is, so I would guess that it would be two AH-1 Cobras, OR the Loach being well-armed (minigun as opposed to none). AAcchh, wait......no, it would be a white (scout), a red (gunship) and a blue (command). Although that's more of a mauve color technically, heavy pink works and I think I got it now!

That site was the one I meant when I said there was a good place to go to find out....great place but I wanted to avoid any electronic sources of info. Since I had the mission and A/C straight plus the white function, it was logical the red was the heavy-hitter gunship that rolled in to do the wet work. Will let the judges call this one, like I said the lesson is the best reward anyway!

Got a laugh out of "Music Box" being the nickname for the minigun on the Loach.....great shots of the OH-6 in action too. Really getting to admire that bird. What huge frikkin' nads it took to fly that little thing above the bad guys at treetop level. Wonder how much a beat-up one goes for.......

JG300-Ascout · Last edited by JG300-Ascout on Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:42 am; edited 2 times in total

And we have a wiener! We will be needing your home addy PM'd or emailed so the contestant can take home a lovely hand wrapped and hand made cluster of authentic Vietnamese incense (specify likely use...celebration, funeral or worship-of-ancestor so I can send the right color).

Yes...a "Heavy Pink Team" is two Cobra's and an OH-6A. In fact, in general Army-speak..."going heavy" means with some extra firepower....like a recon mission or ambush that takes along one or two M60 machine guns and everybody takes extra ammo and grenades...and maybe a up to six extra bodies...for that added "punch".

BTW, there was diversity of opinion on Loaches being armed. Some units didn't arm them (other than an M60 for the crew chief)...others put mini's on the outside....compromising the pure "scout" function (and that stuff's heavy). By far MOST OH-6's did not carry external weapons mounts. I can only think of two in my entire squadron (three line troops with maybe 20 aircraft each, a mix of types).

JG300-Stoopy

OMG I WON!! I WON!! I WON!!!!
(jumping up and down and screaming like Richard Simmons)

Thanks bud, and PM sent!

Now I gotta scrounge around for some prize other than a burnt-out guitar pick.......dang this will take some doing........thanks!

Tell you what, if I were an OH-6 crew member there'd be no cntroversy about being armed! Gimme that nasty stuff!!!

JG300-fr8ycat

Congrats Stoopy!

I was pulling for ya, In between chain smoking, guzzling beer, cursing at my monitor and occasionally curling up on the floor in the fetal position and sobbing like a baby.

Here is also a nice summary of the "teams" and their use.
www.gruntonline.com/Th..._rifle.htm

Ascout and myself had discussed the differences in the way different troops Scouts were armed. In my Fathers unit all the 6's were armed with the minigun but they also did a lot of "white" team recons (2 loaches).

Even their original Scouts Hiller OH-23's were armed with M60's on the skids.

JG300-Stoopy

- fr8ycat

Congrats Stoopy!

I was pulling for ya, In between chain smoking, guzzling beer, cursing at my monitor and occasionally curling up on the floor in the fetal position and sobbing like a baby.

Thanks bud! And I'm glad you took time out to root for me during what sounds like an otherwise typical Saturday night for ya!

JG300-Ascout

- JG300-Stoopy

- fr8ycat

Congrats Stoopy!

I was pulling for ya, In between chain smoking, guzzling beer, cursing at my monitor and occasionally curling up on the floor in the fetal position and sobbing like a baby.

Thanks bud! And I'm glad you took time out to root for me during what sounds like an otherwise typical Saturday night for ya!

...and Fr8ycat earns a consolation prize of Viet incense for showing restraint and biting his lip while Stoopy guessed, stumbled, and wandered (eventually) into the right answer! Laughing

Doubly so because he posted the question I won and and couldn't respond to mine (so be sure to put a return addy on my prixe package so I can send you your consolation prize...which you should forward to your dad...with my compliments).

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