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Msg for J.McGillivray re: Bergepanther pic.
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.

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Dave_Block
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:45 pm Post subject: Msg for J.McGillivray re: Bergepanther pic.
Another photo in this sequence can be found in Tanks Illustrated no.9 'Last of the Panzers' by W.Auerbach p23 (lower). I'm sure I've seen a third picture with the foliage stripped off the bergepanther to give a clearer view but I'm buggered if I can find it. Auerbach notes that is has no winch whch is pretty hard to tell. Perhaps he meant no spade? Cheers, Dave

Dontos
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Msg for J.McGillivray re: Bergepanther pic.
Could a Bergepanther handle a Tiger II, or would Heavy units have had the BergeTiger for towing? Don

Dave_Block
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Msg for J.McGillivray re: Bergepanther pic.
Obviously this one couldn't do it alone :-), who knows what else might be further up the road hiding in the bushes? A second bergepanther linked to the first? I know it took 3 Famo's to haul a Tiger I and a Tiger II is heavier still. BTW, I'm not familiar with a bergetiger (other than the 'Elephant' recovery vehicle, can you provide some more info? Cheers, Dave

Dontos
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Msg for J.McGillivray re: Bergepanther pic.
I don't have any info on it. I remembered somewhere on the net seeing a photo of a Tiger I chassised recovery vehicle. I wanna say it was taken in Italy or Africa, but I could be wrong. Having done many years of vehicle recovery, I know that some vehicles can't tow other,.... Don _________________ "Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."

Dave_Block
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Msg for J.McGillivray re: Bergepanther pic.

Ahhh, probably the Tiger I that first appeared in the one and only AFV News quite some years back. It was thought to be a type of bergetiger until someone pointed out that (a) they couldn't spare any tigers for this and (b) the crane mounted on the turret was far too flimsy to lift much without bending in half. I think the general concensus at the time was it was a field mod. used to lift mines (it was more of a boom than a crane). That didn't bother Italeri, they marketed the kit as a recovery vehicle (they rejected our reality and inserted their own). You do pose a good question though, I'll have to check the pulling weight of a panther both with and w/o the winch.
Cheers, Dave

Jens_O_Mehner
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Msg for J.McGillivray re: Bergepanther pic.

Hmm,

somehow a winch capacity of 60 tons is stored in my scrambled brain, but I could be wrong- I'll dig out my "Wheels & Tracks" over the weekend and look for the article on the Bergepanther trialed by the Brits after the war, they were very favorably impressed by its capacities and firmly stated that it had no equal in the Allied arsenal.

The first series built didn't have a winch, and IIRC, the spade came only with the later series with winch- then again, this could be the glue fumes talking, but I'm fairly certain.

I'll better stop now, and don't get back to this subject until I had time to check...

Cheers,

Jens O.

J.McGillivray
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:28 am Post subject: Re: Msg for J.McGillivray re: Bergepanther pic.
According to the Ã¢â‚¬Å“Encyclopaedia of German Tanks of World War TwoÃ¢â‚¬Â? by Chamberlain and Doyle the Bergepanther had a 40 ton winch and a 1.5 ton derrick. The second photo below is NAC PA 114370.

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