±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 643
Total: 643
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Photo Gallery
06: Photo Gallery
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Home
11: News Archive
12: Home
13: Home
14: Downloads
15: Home
16: Member Screenshots
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Downloads
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Search
27: Member Screenshots
28: Photo Gallery
29: Photo Gallery
30: Downloads
31: Home
32: Member Screenshots
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Photo Gallery
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: News Archive
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Statistics
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Downloads
54: Community Forums
55: Member Screenshots
56: Home
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Member Screenshots
61: Community Forums
62: Member Screenshots
63: Member Screenshots
64: Home
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: News Archive
68: Community Forums
69: News
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Photo Gallery
85: Home
86: Member Screenshots
87: Downloads
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Photo Gallery
91: Photo Gallery
92: Community Forums
93: Photo Gallery
94: Community Forums
95: Photo Gallery
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Member Screenshots
105: Statistics
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: News Archive
111: Downloads
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Downloads
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: News Archive
121: Home
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Member Screenshots
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Home
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Your Account
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Home
140: Community Forums
141: Downloads
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: LinkToUs
151: Community Forums
152: Member Screenshots
153: Community Forums
154: Statistics
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Home
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Photo Gallery
161: Home
162: Member Screenshots
163: Photo Gallery
164: Home
165: Home
166: Community Forums
167: Photo Gallery
168: Your Account
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: LinkToUs
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: Photo Gallery
176: Member Screenshots
177: Photo Gallery
178: Home
179: Downloads
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Photo Gallery
183: Home
184: Downloads
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Home
191: Community Forums
192: Home
193: Downloads
194: Home
195: Community Forums
196: Your Account
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: Home
205: Photo Gallery
206: Community Forums
207: Member Screenshots
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Statistics
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Your Account
217: Community Forums
218: Downloads
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Photo Gallery
222: Photo Gallery
223: Home
224: News Archive
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Your Account
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Community Forums
239: Home
240: Community Forums
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Downloads
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Member Screenshots
253: Photo Gallery
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Statistics
265: News
266: Photo Gallery
267: Community Forums
268: Supporters
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Your Account
272: Member Screenshots
273: News Archive
274: Home
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Photo Gallery
279: Photo Gallery
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Member Screenshots
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Photo Gallery
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Member Screenshots
298: Photo Gallery
299: Downloads
300: Community Forums
301: Downloads
302: Photo Gallery
303: Community Forums
304: Downloads
305: Community Forums
306: Member Screenshots
307: Member Screenshots
308: Downloads
309: Photo Gallery
310: Downloads
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: News Archive
315: Home
316: Downloads
317: Member Screenshots
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Community Forums
322: Downloads
323: Community Forums
324: News Archive
325: Statistics
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Downloads
333: Community Forums
334: Your Account
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Photo Gallery
339: Community Forums
340: Home
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Home
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Community Forums
350: Home
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Photo Gallery
354: Community Forums
355: Your Account
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Home
362: Downloads
363: Community Forums
364: Photo Gallery
365: Community Forums
366: Member Screenshots
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Member Screenshots
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Member Screenshots
374: Home
375: Photo Gallery
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Your Account
379: Home
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: LinkToUs
386: Community Forums
387: Downloads
388: Community Forums
389: Your Account
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Member Screenshots
393: Your Account
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Home
397: Community Forums
398: Home
399: Your Account
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Photo Gallery
406: Community Forums
407: Your Account
408: Your Account
409: Community Forums
410: Photo Gallery
411: Home
412: Home
413: News Archive
414: Community Forums
415: Member Screenshots
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Photo Gallery
419: Downloads
420: Community Forums
421: Your Account
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Downloads
426: Community Forums
427: News Archive
428: Community Forums
429: Your Account
430: Home
431: Community Forums
432: Downloads
433: Photo Gallery
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Home
437: Member Screenshots
438: Community Forums
439: Home
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Home
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Photo Gallery
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Photo Gallery
452: Member Screenshots
453: Photo Gallery
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Your Account
457: News Archive
458: Home
459: Community Forums
460: Downloads
461: Member Screenshots
462: News Archive
463: Community Forums
464: Photo Gallery
465: Community Forums
466: Member Screenshots
467: Home
468: Community Forums
469: Member Screenshots
470: News Archive
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Home
477: Photo Gallery
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Photo Gallery
481: Downloads
482: Home
483: News Archive
484: Photo Gallery
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Home
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: News Archive
491: Home
492: Home
493: Home
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Your Account
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Home
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Downloads
507: Home
508: Home
509: Community Forums
510: Home
511: Home
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Home
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Home
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Your Account
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Home
525: Home
526: Home
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Photo Gallery
532: Home
533: Your Account
534: Photo Gallery
535: Community Forums
536: Photo Gallery
537: Community Forums
538: Member Screenshots
539: Downloads
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Home
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Member Screenshots
548: Downloads
549: Photo Gallery
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: Community Forums
553: Photo Gallery
554: Community Forums
555: Downloads
556: Member Screenshots
557: Community Forums
558: Home
559: Home
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Downloads
564: Statistics
565: News Archive
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Member Screenshots
569: Home
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Member Screenshots
575: Community Forums
576: Photo Gallery
577: Photo Gallery
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Home
581: Downloads
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Statistics
585: Member Screenshots
586: Statistics
587: Downloads
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Downloads
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Statistics
598: Photo Gallery
599: Photo Gallery
600: Statistics
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Photo Gallery
604: Community Forums
605: Home
606: Downloads
607: Member Screenshots
608: Home
609: Community Forums
610: Your Account
611: News Archive
612: Community Forums
613: Downloads
614: Photo Gallery
615: Home
616: Your Account
617: Home
618: News Archive
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: News Archive
623: Community Forums
624: Photo Gallery
625: News
626: Downloads
627: News Archive
628: Photo Gallery
629: Downloads
630: Community Forums
631: Member Screenshots
632: Home
633: Community Forums
634: News Archive
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Home
642: Member Screenshots
643: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID... :: Archived
A general meeting place for all pilots!
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Revive this topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Officer's Club

Topic Archived View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:45 am
Post subject: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

[img][/img]
This is a Cessna L19 Bird Dog (I believe). I am trying to find information out on this particular bird for a friend and this is my first stop on displaying this picture on as many mediums and sources as possible. I can't seem to find this bird listed on Joe Baughers site of aircraft serial numbers. Anyone have any other ideas where to search? I notice a small "Blackhorse" symbol at the top of the tail, similar to 11th ACR's. Anyone with clues can contact me via here or at my PM inbox.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
XcalibeR
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:40 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

I dunno about that specific plane, but I can tell you a few things about the crash Smile First, the crash was most likely caused by loss of directional control. Second, either the power was at idle or the engine had quit at impact, as noted by the props bent back. Third, a fire started after impact near the aft left side of the engine, and burnt it's way up the front left side of the cabin.

As for more information on that aircraft, the NTSB's website is always a good place to start, but it's busy or down right now...

_________________


[TSF]Lt. Col. XcalibeR{5thF}
PG_Raptor
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Thanks for the info, Im having intenet problems myself, so I'll have to try the NTSB later.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
XcalibeR
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Yeah, that was just me showing off from my Aviation Safety course :). But now I'm kind of interested in searching that specific crash. The NTSB doesn't have anything on it that I could find. Do you have any more information on the crash? When was it? where was it? where did you get the pics from?

_________________


[TSF]Lt. Col. XcalibeR{5thF}
PG_Raptor
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

- XcalibeR
Yeah, that was just me showing off from my Aviation Safety course :). But now I'm kind of interested in searching that specific crash. The NTSB doesn't have anything on it that I could find. Do you have any more information on the crash? When was it? where was it? where did you get the pics from?


There is no more specific information available to augment the pics, which came from me. Including where (other than Vietnam) or when. That happens when you have some 500 pics that are ~35 years old and you served in two widely separate military regions. It is unknown if there was hostile fire involved or just mechanical failure, that's why we're asking.
For my money, the aircraft likely attempted to put down on the road and went wide. I also doubt that the insignia relates to the 11th Cav as this is an Air Force bird, the insignia is incomplete, and prancing black horses are a common theme anyway.
O-1's of the latest variant, L-19e's, ceased production in 1962, so this is an old airframe even if the latest variety. Almost certainly, it was written off as a combat loss and pitched at the Long Binh boneyard with nothing of it surviving.

And that is all I know about 'dat.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
XcalibeR
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:57 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

- Doug_Kibbey
For my money, the aircraft likely attempted to put down on the road and went wide.


That's probably not a bad guess. The steep bank and lack of a definate edge on the road suggests that it is, in fact, a road, not a runway. Also helping that idea is the drainage ditch in the background. It might be a bad picture or exposure, but it also looks like the road and drain are wet, which would help an already unstable plane into the ditch.

Also, after looking at those pics a bit more, I think I can justify myself a bit more on my previous information, and go a bit further. I'm pretty sure that the fire that occured in the engine started after the crash, as noted by the fact that it propogated up, instead of back. It might be possible, though, that there had been an engine fire, and the wind kept it inside the cowling until the aircraft crashed. Either way, it was a very hot fire to be able to scold and char the metal and deform the plastic of the windshield that much.

I am also pretty sure that the engine had in fact quit before touch down. Props that are bent back are almost always signs that the engine was at a low power setting when it hit. In this case, the slight bending of the right side prop versus the major deformation of the left side prop (closer to the camera) tells me that it was probably wind milling. The major fold in the left side prop was most likely caused when the plane went in the ditch, against those rocks.

A few other things to note. The wings and tail section look to have been mostly damaged by the impact, so I think we can rule out any mechanical fail of the airframe. The right cowling was probably also a casualty of the crash. Second, and on a different note, I noticed that in the back ground of the first image, there is a chapel, along with what looks to be either a VOR or Radar tower closer to the crash site. Both of these seem to point to the fact that it crashed right outside of a permanant air base. This is further supported by the fact that the fire on the aircraft was put out fairly quickly, becuase it didn't spread that far along the aircraft.

So where does that put us? Was the engine in fact failed, or was it idling for landing? If it was failed, what caused the failure? What started the fire? when did the fire start?

If I'm even close on those observations, then I could put forth one probable cause. Take it for what it's worth, cause it's most likely very wrong. Using the above information, I would take and gander at it and that perhaps the pilot, whether just after taking off or just arriving, noticed smoke coming into the cabin. To meet the emergency, he probably cut the fuel supply to the engine (to help control the fire), which would, of course, shut down the engine. Since he's so near a base, I would say he was trying to make a runway, decided he couldn't make it, tried for the road, and slid off the side. After crashing, the fire then propogated up the side of the plane while the fire squad got out there.

Makes for a good story, eh? Mr. Green

Don't take any of that story as a given. It is only what one college sophmore can come up with from looking at three old pictures. If you want to do a bit more research on the engine, the L-19 used a Continental O-470-11 engine. I think if there was a fuel line that goes along the left hand side of the engine, that would further support the findings I put forward.

I'm not fairing too well on finding any info on this crash on the web, so you might have to resort back to your own memory to try to figure out where and when this occured.

_________________


[TSF]Lt. Col. XcalibeR{5thF}
PG_Raptor
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:19 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

I research and documented an F-105D-31-RE that crashed here at Ft Irwin, 11 Feb 1964. No one knew anything till I found a partial serial number and tried looking for it on Joe Baughers web-site. He lists all miliatry planes built by serial number from 1921 to present. I could not find anything close. I'll be damned if I wont find out though. Doug showed me this picture and I thought I could find it within 10 minutes. The fact that I haven't has made me want to find it even more and I will. I have a contact that may be of some help, but it will probably take 2-3 weeks of research for him to find. But for free, I can't knock it.
Are we sure this is an L19? What is the differnece between it and an OE-1 and some of the other "Bird Dog" variations? Are those white phos rocket mounts under the wings that I see?

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:31 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

- SFC_Jeff_Button
I research and documented an F-105D-31-RE that crashed here at Ft Irwin, 11 Feb 1964. No one knew anything till I found a partial serial number and tried looking for it on Joe Baughers web-site. He lists all miliatry planes built by serial number from 1921 to present. I could not find anything close. I'll be damned if I wont find out though. Doug showed me this picture and I thought I could find it within 10 minutes. The fact that I haven't has made me want to find it even more and I will. I have a contact that may be of some help, but it will probably take 2-3 weeks of research for him to find. But for free, I can't knock it.
Are we sure this is an L19? What is the differnece between it and an OE-1 and some of the other "Bird Dog" variations? Are those white phos rocket mounts under the wings that I see?


Jeff,
All L-19's were based on the Cessna 170. The L-19 designation seems to have been dropped officially after Korea and changed to O-1. But as a type, there were several models of "L-19", the last being the "e" model, as noted. You will see claims that L-19's were long gone by the '70's in VN (and correctly, out of the Army altogether by '74), but we know they were around....
A VNAF pilot made the only unarrested landing of one on the U.S.S Midway with no barrier with four members of his family in a well documented and filmed landing during the evacuation of Saigon in '75. Numerous pics can be found of this feat on the 'net.

The O-2 was the Cessna "Skymaster" or "push me/pull me" with the twin boom, and are more associated, now, with Vietnam, but the O-1 was very much still around.

If it helps, I have "Googled" the bejeezus out of that number and all variants of type designators to no effect yet, over the course of several years. Pounded all the websites featuring O-1's and L-19's too. Official records don't always tell the whole story...and neither do tail numbers...this is especially true of Vietnam (and that number is unlike anything I've seen on the usual L-19's with pics around).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:38 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

In my numerous "travels" via the internet to research Chuck Yeagers F-100F and that F105D that crashed here, I have made a few contacts that know "Wingy Thingys" and I plan to contact them tomorrow if my work computer is working, (much of Ft Irwins server was down today). I have now become officially infatuated with finding out the history on this airplane, even if it is only limited history. Besides, I've researched everything here at Irwin, I need a new challenge to occupy my down time. Besides, I told you I'd find out for you, what kind of friend would I be if I didn't follow through. I only posted it here first because I've found that sometimes the answers to questions, can sometimes be found close to home rather than searching far and wide, (like I might end up doing). Gotta run.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Thud68
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 369
Location: AZ USA
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Back in 1988 I got curious about what happened to an F-105D I crewed at Korat RTAFB from Feb68 to Sep68. First I called the AMARC storage center at Davis-Monthan AFB here in Tucson. All they could tell me was that there records indicated it was not physically there, and that it had been involved in an accident while assigned to an Air Guard outfit in the DC area. They did provide me with this address for further info:
Department of the Air Force/ Headquarters Air Force Inspection and Safety Center/ Norton AFB, CA/ 92409-7001.
What I got from them was the crash package on that plane to included radio transcripts between Coast Guard, Pilot, and Tower during the incident. Even some pictures of parts brought up from the bottom of Chesepeake Bay. Pilot survived, plane didn't.
If you have the serial number or tail number and the date and location of the incident I would try the folks at Norton. Remember, my quest was in 1988 and things may have changed a bit. May also have been a small cost involved, with age CRS has set in ( can't remember s***).
Anywho, good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________
" Refuel my plane and load my guns"

Hiroyoshi Nishizawa
" The Devil of Rabaul"
Back to top
View user's profile
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

OK, I admit I thought this would be easier than it has turned out to be. The Historical Freedom of Information Act Manager, Louie Alley at Kirtland AFB couldn't turn up anything on this bird. He was the one that helped me find records on F-105's and F-100's that were lost, and I didn't have pictures of them. However I'm on the trail! I have since contacted 16 other sources and hope for positive results soon, esspecially from one that wrote a detailed book on the Bird Dog's. I will keep you posted.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:48 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

One of my "sources" has contacted me about the airplane in the picture above. He is about 90% sure about the info he provided me. First, the plane was built in 1956, as one in a batch of 74 birds for that particular contract run, (serial numbers 56-4161 thru 56-4235). Not being able to see the final digit of the tail number, he has narrowed it be between 56-4180 and 56-4189. However in his "files" he shows that 180, 185, and 186 were NOT listed as being on the "Known Destroyed Birddog Lists". That narrows it to one of 7 serial numbers that are left. The plane was also built originally as an L-19E. He says the picture shows a USAF Tactical Air Support Squadron (TASS) aircraft, and these were called O-1E's by the Air Force.
The one thing he didn't say, was which TASS unit it was. I guess you'd have to look up area of operations for each unit and try to piece it together from that.
Hey "Thud 68" did you ever find out the ultimate demise of your bird? If not, tell me the tail number and I'll snoop around some.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Here is another bit of information found on this Bird Dog. I contacted the International Bird Dog Association and a number of its members for help. Below is one of the responses. I hope it helps somewhat. I may get more info and if I do, I'll post it here.

Jim, Ron, guys...
Looking at the photos, the last digit of the tail number is missing. The little logo at the top of the vertical may help track it down. Don't knmow what TASS used the little horsey... It's not Seahorses and not 1st Cav art because it's an Air Force E-model from the 1956 contract series that was built in 57: The number is 0 (of course over 10 years old airframe) plus the 6 from the '56 contract run plus the 4181 or 82, 83, 84, or 87, 88, 89. Only 4180, 4185 and 4186 are shown as not destroyed in service. All others are listed as destroyed. And only 80, 85 and 86 did not get the "Vietnam" modifications with the dual FM command set installations plus other radio mods. Those three may have remained Stateside - and that's why they're not shown as destroyed (see Minard's book, pp 208 and 216 for info; s/n range 23815 - 23826.) Several in that series got the self-sealing tanks and Geise gear, too. All mods were made under an Air Force modifications contract, so that seems to support AF ownership as does the use of the rotating beacon in a cup on the top of the cabin. As far as I know, only AF did that for visibility with the fast-movers. Too bad the last digit is missing in the photo of the tail.


If it was Air Force, that may explain why no joy in Army records.


Ron, since he contacted you, if any of this makes sense to you, do you want to pass this on to SFC Jeff Button?

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Doug, this is where that serial number for the Bird Dog falls into. Because the bird was over 10 years old/modified, it got a "0" as its first digit. The "6" is for the year (1956), and then the 418_ is the serial number. Thats why we were having problems finding it initially. My guess is that the bird in the picruee is either 4181, 82, 83, 84, 87, 88, or 89. Still don't know the unit though. See the excerpt below that I cut and paste from Joe Baughers site;

56-4161/4235 Cessna L-19E Bird Dog
4173 and 4174 transferred to USN as OE-1 BuNo 144663/144664.
Some sold to Thailand.
Redesignated O-1E in 1962.
4164 to N6234
4208 on display at Commado Air Park, Hurlburt Field, FL in 1973
4211 to Thai AF
4215 to Thai AF

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Thanks, Jeff...
I thought it was pretty clear this was an Air Force plane from the color and side markings (All Army one's I've seen from this ere were OD green).

No pic I'm in possession of (I have four) show any greater detail that would be useful in the ID. Pity about the tail number, especially. Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Revive this topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Officer's Club
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next

Archive Revive
Username:
This is an archived topic - your reply will not be appended here.
Instead, a new topic will be generated in the active forum.
The new topic will provide a reference link to this archived topic.