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German influence on French tank design
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:25 pm
Post subject: German influence on French tank design

In my current quest to find out if the French 75mm DEFA and/or CN75-50 gun could be used when restoring a Panther tank (as they were more or less carbon copies of the KwK 42 L/70 gun) I stumbled over something very interesting that I actually didn't know and with my special interest in the Panther it's strange that I've overlooked it. I have to blame it on that my interest for French post war tank design has been marginal at best ...

The French didn't just copy/modify the gun, they were more than a little inspired by German tank design.

Early AMX-50 rear deck, I could have mistaken it for a modified Panther ...



AMX-50 on the move.



The Somua SM, more than a little hint of a Tiger II.



Somua SM rear.




Well, I still need to find out if a French gun could subsitute for a KwK 42.

Cheers,
Rik

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:29 pm
Post subject: Re: German influence on French tank design

Hi Folks!

Very interesting! Smile

Is it just me, or does the track in that last photo look like it came off a Tiger Tank?

Sgt, Scouts Out!

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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:32 pm
Post subject: Re: German influence on French tank design

WOW! That is incredible! What a Frankentank! Smile

Nice pixs!
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:05 pm
Post subject: Re: German influence on French tank design

- Rikard_Hufschmied
In my current quest to find out if the French 75mm DEFA and/or CN75-50 gun could be used when restoring a Panther tank (as they were more or less carbon copies of the KwK 42 L/70 gun) I stumbled over something very interesting that I actually didn't know and with my special interest in the Panther it's strange that I've overlooked it. I have to blame it on that my interest for French post war tank design has been marginal at best ...

The French didn't just copy/modify the gun, they were more than a little inspired by German tank design.

Well, I still need to find out if a French gun could subsitute for a KwK 42.

Cheers,
Rik


Saumur has an AMX-50 - one of my favorites... I think this one has a 120 though... There was an AMX-50 with a 100mm gun, but not sure there was an AMX-50 with a 75?...









More info & pics on the AMX-50:

AMX-50 with 10mm Gun

AMX-50 with 120mm Gun

There's also the ARL-44 (right next to the AMX-50 at Saumur), which has been called the French Tiger, although its original design pre-dates the German invasion.







ARL-44

Neil
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mike_Duplessis
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:35 pm
Post subject: Re: German influence on French tank design

Wow - absolutely frickin' Wow! Best pictures of the AMX-50 I've ever seen. I did not know the 120mm gun vehicle had survived!

About French armor being influenced by German designs, what first comes to mind is the turret from of the good-old AML-90 AC Those triangular corners always reminded me of the PxIII turret front.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:01 pm
Post subject: Re: German influence on French tank design

- mike_Duplessis
Wow - absolutely frickin' Wow! Best pictures of the AMX-50 I've ever seen. I did not know the 120mm gun vehicle had survived!


Thanks, although take a look at the links too - they include some more detail shots.

With the exception of the AMX-50 & ARL-44 being parked next to each other, Saumur is really a photographer's dream, especially for German armor. Most of the collection is well spaced out, allowing for all-around shots & inspection. OTOH, the staff isnt very friendly...

Neil
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geoffsteer
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:46 pm
Post subject: Re: German influence on French ...-Commander's Cupola

Hi Rikard-
The commander's cupola seen in the top photo appears to be a direct copy of the Panther's cupola. If there is a difference, it is to minor to matter.
Thanks for the pictures, interesting piece of history.
Regards-
Geoff Steer [;-{/)
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Dubliner
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:35 am
Post subject: Re: German influence on French tank design

nt


Last edited by Dubliner on Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:10 pm
Post subject: Re: German influence on French tank design

- Rikard_Hufschmied
Early AMX-50 rear deck, I could have mistaken it for a modified Panther ...


BTW, Rickard, I am sure that is in no small part due to the fact that the AMX-50 was powered by a Maybach HL 295 engine. Maybach produced the engines for France after the war in the French sector.

Incidentally, I'm kinda amused by the new Mercedes-Benz Maybach car. Not that I'm in the range for a Mercedes-Benz, but not sure I could bring myself to drive a car named after German (okay and French) tank engines Wink

Neil
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