±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 577
Total: 577
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Home
17: Home
18: Home
19: Home
20: Home
21: Home
22: Home
23: Home
24: Home
25: Home
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Photo Gallery
29: Tell a Friend
30: Home
31: Home
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: News
38: Community Forums
39: Member Screenshots
40: Member Screenshots
41: Community Forums
42: Photo Gallery
43: Member Screenshots
44: Home
45: Home
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Member Screenshots
50: Community Forums
51: Home
52: Home
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Home
61: Community Forums
62: Photo Gallery
63: Community Forums
64: Home
65: Home
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Downloads
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Home
73: Home
74: Home
75: Home
76: Home
77: Home
78: Home
79: Home
80: Home
81: Photo Gallery
82: Home
83: Home
84: Home
85: Community Forums
86: Home
87: Member Screenshots
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Downloads
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Home
98: Home
99: Home
100: Home
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Downloads
109: Home
110: Community Forums
111: Photo Gallery
112: Photo Gallery
113: Home
114: News Archive
115: Home
116: Downloads
117: Home
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Community Forums
123: Member Screenshots
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Member Screenshots
129: Downloads
130: Downloads
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Home
140: Home
141: Downloads
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Community Forums
145: Downloads
146: Photo Gallery
147: Photo Gallery
148: Home
149: Home
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Photo Gallery
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Home
158: Home
159: Home
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Photo Gallery
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Home
169: Home
170: Home
171: Home
172: Photo Gallery
173: Member Screenshots
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Home
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Photo Gallery
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Home
193: Home
194: Home
195: Member Screenshots
196: Home
197: Photo Gallery
198: Home
199: Community Forums
200: Home
201: Home
202: Home
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Home
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Member Screenshots
210: Home
211: Home
212: Home
213: Home
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Member Screenshots
217: Photo Gallery
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Member Screenshots
221: Community Forums
222: Downloads
223: News
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: Photo Gallery
227: Community Forums
228: Member Screenshots
229: Home
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Home
235: Member Screenshots
236: Photo Gallery
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Member Screenshots
241: Home
242: Photo Gallery
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Downloads
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Statistics
249: Photo Gallery
250: Photo Gallery
251: Home
252: Photo Gallery
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Photo Gallery
258: Photo Gallery
259: Home
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: News Archive
263: Home
264: Community Forums
265: Downloads
266: Community Forums
267: Home
268: Home
269: Home
270: Photo Gallery
271: Photo Gallery
272: News Archive
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Statistics
278: Home
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Home
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Home
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Home
294: Community Forums
295: Home
296: Photo Gallery
297: Photo Gallery
298: Member Screenshots
299: Member Screenshots
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Photo Gallery
304: Home
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Home
308: Home
309: Home
310: Home
311: Home
312: Community Forums
313: Home
314: Home
315: Home
316: News
317: Community Forums
318: Home
319: Home
320: Home
321: Community Forums
322: Member Screenshots
323: Member Screenshots
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: News Archive
328: Community Forums
329: Photo Gallery
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Home
337: Home
338: Home
339: Home
340: Home
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Home
348: Community Forums
349: Home
350: Downloads
351: Community Forums
352: Home
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Photo Gallery
357: Member Screenshots
358: Photo Gallery
359: Home
360: Home
361: Home
362: Home
363: Member Screenshots
364: Downloads
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Home
369: Home
370: Member Screenshots
371: Member Screenshots
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Member Screenshots
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Home
379: Member Screenshots
380: Home
381: Community Forums
382: Member Screenshots
383: Your Account
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Downloads
387: Community Forums
388: Home
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Home
392: Home
393: Home
394: Home
395: Photo Gallery
396: Home
397: Home
398: Community Forums
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Member Screenshots
403: Home
404: Home
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Photo Gallery
408: Member Screenshots
409: Downloads
410: Community Forums
411: Home
412: Home
413: Home
414: Home
415: Home
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Photo Gallery
419: Downloads
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Home
423: Home
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Home
428: Community Forums
429: Home
430: Member Screenshots
431: Home
432: Home
433: Downloads
434: Community Forums
435: Home
436: Home
437: Home
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Home
441: Home
442: Home
443: Community Forums
444: Home
445: Community Forums
446: Home
447: Community Forums
448: Photo Gallery
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Home
452: Home
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Photo Gallery
457: Home
458: News Archive
459: Photo Gallery
460: Photo Gallery
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Photo Gallery
464: Community Forums
465: Downloads
466: Photo Gallery
467: Downloads
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Home
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Home
480: Home
481: Your Account
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: Home
485: Home
486: Photo Gallery
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Member Screenshots
492: Home
493: Photo Gallery
494: News
495: Community Forums
496: Photo Gallery
497: Home
498: Community Forums
499: Home
500: Community Forums
501: Home
502: Home
503: Downloads
504: Home
505: Home
506: Community Forums
507: Photo Gallery
508: Home
509: Home
510: Home
511: Photo Gallery
512: Home
513: Photo Gallery
514: Home
515: Home
516: Community Forums
517: Home
518: Photo Gallery
519: Home
520: Home
521: Community Forums
522: News Archive
523: Community Forums
524: Downloads
525: Community Forums
526: News
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Home
530: Home
531: Photo Gallery
532: Home
533: Community Forums
534: Photo Gallery
535: Photo Gallery
536: Downloads
537: Community Forums
538: Home
539: Home
540: Home
541: Community Forums
542: Home
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Home
549: News
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: News
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Home
557: Photo Gallery
558: Photo Gallery
559: Home
560: Photo Gallery
561: Home
562: Photo Gallery
563: Home
564: Member Screenshots
565: Downloads
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Home
570: Community Forums
571: Home
572: Photo Gallery
573: Home
574: Statistics
575: Photo Gallery
576: Photo Gallery
577: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID... :: Archived
A general meeting place for all pilots!
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Revive this topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Officer's Club

Topic Archived View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:45 am
Post subject: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

[img][/img]
This is a Cessna L19 Bird Dog (I believe). I am trying to find information out on this particular bird for a friend and this is my first stop on displaying this picture on as many mediums and sources as possible. I can't seem to find this bird listed on Joe Baughers site of aircraft serial numbers. Anyone have any other ideas where to search? I notice a small "Blackhorse" symbol at the top of the tail, similar to 11th ACR's. Anyone with clues can contact me via here or at my PM inbox.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
XcalibeR
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:40 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

I dunno about that specific plane, but I can tell you a few things about the crash Smile First, the crash was most likely caused by loss of directional control. Second, either the power was at idle or the engine had quit at impact, as noted by the props bent back. Third, a fire started after impact near the aft left side of the engine, and burnt it's way up the front left side of the cabin.

As for more information on that aircraft, the NTSB's website is always a good place to start, but it's busy or down right now...

_________________


[TSF]Lt. Col. XcalibeR{5thF}
PG_Raptor
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Thanks for the info, Im having intenet problems myself, so I'll have to try the NTSB later.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
XcalibeR
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Yeah, that was just me showing off from my Aviation Safety course :). But now I'm kind of interested in searching that specific crash. The NTSB doesn't have anything on it that I could find. Do you have any more information on the crash? When was it? where was it? where did you get the pics from?

_________________


[TSF]Lt. Col. XcalibeR{5thF}
PG_Raptor
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

- XcalibeR
Yeah, that was just me showing off from my Aviation Safety course :). But now I'm kind of interested in searching that specific crash. The NTSB doesn't have anything on it that I could find. Do you have any more information on the crash? When was it? where was it? where did you get the pics from?


There is no more specific information available to augment the pics, which came from me. Including where (other than Vietnam) or when. That happens when you have some 500 pics that are ~35 years old and you served in two widely separate military regions. It is unknown if there was hostile fire involved or just mechanical failure, that's why we're asking.
For my money, the aircraft likely attempted to put down on the road and went wide. I also doubt that the insignia relates to the 11th Cav as this is an Air Force bird, the insignia is incomplete, and prancing black horses are a common theme anyway.
O-1's of the latest variant, L-19e's, ceased production in 1962, so this is an old airframe even if the latest variety. Almost certainly, it was written off as a combat loss and pitched at the Long Binh boneyard with nothing of it surviving.

And that is all I know about 'dat.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
XcalibeR
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:57 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

- Doug_Kibbey
For my money, the aircraft likely attempted to put down on the road and went wide.


That's probably not a bad guess. The steep bank and lack of a definate edge on the road suggests that it is, in fact, a road, not a runway. Also helping that idea is the drainage ditch in the background. It might be a bad picture or exposure, but it also looks like the road and drain are wet, which would help an already unstable plane into the ditch.

Also, after looking at those pics a bit more, I think I can justify myself a bit more on my previous information, and go a bit further. I'm pretty sure that the fire that occured in the engine started after the crash, as noted by the fact that it propogated up, instead of back. It might be possible, though, that there had been an engine fire, and the wind kept it inside the cowling until the aircraft crashed. Either way, it was a very hot fire to be able to scold and char the metal and deform the plastic of the windshield that much.

I am also pretty sure that the engine had in fact quit before touch down. Props that are bent back are almost always signs that the engine was at a low power setting when it hit. In this case, the slight bending of the right side prop versus the major deformation of the left side prop (closer to the camera) tells me that it was probably wind milling. The major fold in the left side prop was most likely caused when the plane went in the ditch, against those rocks.

A few other things to note. The wings and tail section look to have been mostly damaged by the impact, so I think we can rule out any mechanical fail of the airframe. The right cowling was probably also a casualty of the crash. Second, and on a different note, I noticed that in the back ground of the first image, there is a chapel, along with what looks to be either a VOR or Radar tower closer to the crash site. Both of these seem to point to the fact that it crashed right outside of a permanant air base. This is further supported by the fact that the fire on the aircraft was put out fairly quickly, becuase it didn't spread that far along the aircraft.

So where does that put us? Was the engine in fact failed, or was it idling for landing? If it was failed, what caused the failure? What started the fire? when did the fire start?

If I'm even close on those observations, then I could put forth one probable cause. Take it for what it's worth, cause it's most likely very wrong. Using the above information, I would take and gander at it and that perhaps the pilot, whether just after taking off or just arriving, noticed smoke coming into the cabin. To meet the emergency, he probably cut the fuel supply to the engine (to help control the fire), which would, of course, shut down the engine. Since he's so near a base, I would say he was trying to make a runway, decided he couldn't make it, tried for the road, and slid off the side. After crashing, the fire then propogated up the side of the plane while the fire squad got out there.

Makes for a good story, eh? Mr. Green

Don't take any of that story as a given. It is only what one college sophmore can come up with from looking at three old pictures. If you want to do a bit more research on the engine, the L-19 used a Continental O-470-11 engine. I think if there was a fuel line that goes along the left hand side of the engine, that would further support the findings I put forward.

I'm not fairing too well on finding any info on this crash on the web, so you might have to resort back to your own memory to try to figure out where and when this occured.

_________________


[TSF]Lt. Col. XcalibeR{5thF}
PG_Raptor
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:19 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

I research and documented an F-105D-31-RE that crashed here at Ft Irwin, 11 Feb 1964. No one knew anything till I found a partial serial number and tried looking for it on Joe Baughers web-site. He lists all miliatry planes built by serial number from 1921 to present. I could not find anything close. I'll be damned if I wont find out though. Doug showed me this picture and I thought I could find it within 10 minutes. The fact that I haven't has made me want to find it even more and I will. I have a contact that may be of some help, but it will probably take 2-3 weeks of research for him to find. But for free, I can't knock it.
Are we sure this is an L19? What is the differnece between it and an OE-1 and some of the other "Bird Dog" variations? Are those white phos rocket mounts under the wings that I see?

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:31 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

- SFC_Jeff_Button
I research and documented an F-105D-31-RE that crashed here at Ft Irwin, 11 Feb 1964. No one knew anything till I found a partial serial number and tried looking for it on Joe Baughers web-site. He lists all miliatry planes built by serial number from 1921 to present. I could not find anything close. I'll be damned if I wont find out though. Doug showed me this picture and I thought I could find it within 10 minutes. The fact that I haven't has made me want to find it even more and I will. I have a contact that may be of some help, but it will probably take 2-3 weeks of research for him to find. But for free, I can't knock it.
Are we sure this is an L19? What is the differnece between it and an OE-1 and some of the other "Bird Dog" variations? Are those white phos rocket mounts under the wings that I see?


Jeff,
All L-19's were based on the Cessna 170. The L-19 designation seems to have been dropped officially after Korea and changed to O-1. But as a type, there were several models of "L-19", the last being the "e" model, as noted. You will see claims that L-19's were long gone by the '70's in VN (and correctly, out of the Army altogether by '74), but we know they were around....
A VNAF pilot made the only unarrested landing of one on the U.S.S Midway with no barrier with four members of his family in a well documented and filmed landing during the evacuation of Saigon in '75. Numerous pics can be found of this feat on the 'net.

The O-2 was the Cessna "Skymaster" or "push me/pull me" with the twin boom, and are more associated, now, with Vietnam, but the O-1 was very much still around.

If it helps, I have "Googled" the bejeezus out of that number and all variants of type designators to no effect yet, over the course of several years. Pounded all the websites featuring O-1's and L-19's too. Official records don't always tell the whole story...and neither do tail numbers...this is especially true of Vietnam (and that number is unlike anything I've seen on the usual L-19's with pics around).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:38 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

In my numerous "travels" via the internet to research Chuck Yeagers F-100F and that F105D that crashed here, I have made a few contacts that know "Wingy Thingys" and I plan to contact them tomorrow if my work computer is working, (much of Ft Irwins server was down today). I have now become officially infatuated with finding out the history on this airplane, even if it is only limited history. Besides, I've researched everything here at Irwin, I need a new challenge to occupy my down time. Besides, I told you I'd find out for you, what kind of friend would I be if I didn't follow through. I only posted it here first because I've found that sometimes the answers to questions, can sometimes be found close to home rather than searching far and wide, (like I might end up doing). Gotta run.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Thud68
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 369
Location: AZ USA
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Back in 1988 I got curious about what happened to an F-105D I crewed at Korat RTAFB from Feb68 to Sep68. First I called the AMARC storage center at Davis-Monthan AFB here in Tucson. All they could tell me was that there records indicated it was not physically there, and that it had been involved in an accident while assigned to an Air Guard outfit in the DC area. They did provide me with this address for further info:
Department of the Air Force/ Headquarters Air Force Inspection and Safety Center/ Norton AFB, CA/ 92409-7001.
What I got from them was the crash package on that plane to included radio transcripts between Coast Guard, Pilot, and Tower during the incident. Even some pictures of parts brought up from the bottom of Chesepeake Bay. Pilot survived, plane didn't.
If you have the serial number or tail number and the date and location of the incident I would try the folks at Norton. Remember, my quest was in 1988 and things may have changed a bit. May also have been a small cost involved, with age CRS has set in ( can't remember s***).
Anywho, good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________
" Refuel my plane and load my guns"

Hiroyoshi Nishizawa
" The Devil of Rabaul"
Back to top
View user's profile
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

OK, I admit I thought this would be easier than it has turned out to be. The Historical Freedom of Information Act Manager, Louie Alley at Kirtland AFB couldn't turn up anything on this bird. He was the one that helped me find records on F-105's and F-100's that were lost, and I didn't have pictures of them. However I'm on the trail! I have since contacted 16 other sources and hope for positive results soon, esspecially from one that wrote a detailed book on the Bird Dog's. I will keep you posted.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:48 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

One of my "sources" has contacted me about the airplane in the picture above. He is about 90% sure about the info he provided me. First, the plane was built in 1956, as one in a batch of 74 birds for that particular contract run, (serial numbers 56-4161 thru 56-4235). Not being able to see the final digit of the tail number, he has narrowed it be between 56-4180 and 56-4189. However in his "files" he shows that 180, 185, and 186 were NOT listed as being on the "Known Destroyed Birddog Lists". That narrows it to one of 7 serial numbers that are left. The plane was also built originally as an L-19E. He says the picture shows a USAF Tactical Air Support Squadron (TASS) aircraft, and these were called O-1E's by the Air Force.
The one thing he didn't say, was which TASS unit it was. I guess you'd have to look up area of operations for each unit and try to piece it together from that.
Hey "Thud 68" did you ever find out the ultimate demise of your bird? If not, tell me the tail number and I'll snoop around some.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Here is another bit of information found on this Bird Dog. I contacted the International Bird Dog Association and a number of its members for help. Below is one of the responses. I hope it helps somewhat. I may get more info and if I do, I'll post it here.

Jim, Ron, guys...
Looking at the photos, the last digit of the tail number is missing. The little logo at the top of the vertical may help track it down. Don't knmow what TASS used the little horsey... It's not Seahorses and not 1st Cav art because it's an Air Force E-model from the 1956 contract series that was built in 57: The number is 0 (of course over 10 years old airframe) plus the 6 from the '56 contract run plus the 4181 or 82, 83, 84, or 87, 88, 89. Only 4180, 4185 and 4186 are shown as not destroyed in service. All others are listed as destroyed. And only 80, 85 and 86 did not get the "Vietnam" modifications with the dual FM command set installations plus other radio mods. Those three may have remained Stateside - and that's why they're not shown as destroyed (see Minard's book, pp 208 and 216 for info; s/n range 23815 - 23826.) Several in that series got the self-sealing tanks and Geise gear, too. All mods were made under an Air Force modifications contract, so that seems to support AF ownership as does the use of the rotating beacon in a cup on the top of the cabin. As far as I know, only AF did that for visibility with the fast-movers. Too bad the last digit is missing in the photo of the tail.


If it was Air Force, that may explain why no joy in Army records.


Ron, since he contacted you, if any of this makes sense to you, do you want to pass this on to SFC Jeff Button?

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Doug, this is where that serial number for the Bird Dog falls into. Because the bird was over 10 years old/modified, it got a "0" as its first digit. The "6" is for the year (1956), and then the 418_ is the serial number. Thats why we were having problems finding it initially. My guess is that the bird in the picruee is either 4181, 82, 83, 84, 87, 88, or 89. Still don't know the unit though. See the excerpt below that I cut and paste from Joe Baughers site;

56-4161/4235 Cessna L-19E Bird Dog
4173 and 4174 transferred to USN as OE-1 BuNo 144663/144664.
Some sold to Thailand.
Redesignated O-1E in 1962.
4164 to N6234
4208 on display at Commado Air Park, Hurlburt Field, FL in 1973
4211 to Thai AF
4215 to Thai AF

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Thanks, Jeff...
I thought it was pretty clear this was an Air Force plane from the color and side markings (All Army one's I've seen from this ere were OD green).

No pic I'm in possession of (I have four) show any greater detail that would be useful in the ID. Pity about the tail number, especially. Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Revive this topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Officer's Club
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next

Archive Revive
Username:
This is an archived topic - your reply will not be appended here.
Instead, a new topic will be generated in the active forum.
The new topic will provide a reference link to this archived topic.