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SFC_Jeff_Button · Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:47 am Post subject: Cobra found at NTC!!!

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While checking out the Kiowas at NTC's airfield, we (Doug Kibbey and I) spotted this Cobra sitting alone to one side of the dirt lot. We were told that 5-6 years ago, the Arizona National Guard had a rotation at the NTC and broke the bird. It was'nt fixed by the time rotation ended, and they left without it and said they'd get it later. Instead, paperwork and the "Keys" were mailed to the airfield and its been sitting their ever since. The serial number is 67-15462. This aircraft was in in a contract build between numbers 67-15450 and 15869, which were designated as Bell AH-1G-BF, this particular serial number was converted to AH-1F standard.
I contacted the post museum which is going to seek out getting the bird for its collection.

Shadow_Bshwackr · Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Cobra found at NTC!!!

Can you imagine getting the mail and finding the keys and paperwork for a Cobra?...lol

Thanks for the pics and story Jeff...:D

JG300-1Bullet · Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Cobra found at NTC!!!

Heck if they don't want it I'll take it and put in my back yard Wink

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Cobra found at NTC!!!

It's been there some 6-7 years. They told me if I had a low-boy trailer, I was welcome to it (only about half-joking...)

Durn shame about trading my Jeep for a Mustang!

SFC_Jeff_Button · Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: Cobra found at NTC!!!

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Here are more pictures taken today, more in detail. The rotors had a date of 1989. It stated they had a two year or 200 hour warranty. The data plate thats blurry is from the right wing (if you call them that) it had a date stamped of May 78. The door that opened to that plate had a 1972 date. No date could be found on the Chain gun. Shot of the front cockpit is bad due to discolored plexiglass and glare. Notice the bird nest in the left wing! I hope the museum grabs this bird before it becomes a target.

SFC_Jeff_Button · Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Cobra found at NTC!!!

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I forgot this picture of the chain gun before.

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Cobra found at NTC!!!

Jeff, it looks to me like the right-side joystick handle has been removed from where that hole with the wires is. The gunners sight and turret controls don't look right to me, either...like they're rigidly mounted or off to the right of center.
Could you tell if there was a conventional flight joystick on the floor between the legs of the front-seater? If being used as a flight trainer, this might have been how it would be configure for "dual controls". I can't imagine why the right armrest joystick would be removed, otherwise...

SFC_Jeff_Button · Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Cobra found at NTC!!!

Doug,
The canopy was locked, and I couldn't get high enough to look down very well. I held that camera about a foot over my head to get that shot of the cockpit. I just returned from the museum and showed Neil this DG and AFV's DG. He has made it a "favorite" on his computer for future use. I'm in the middle of playing phone tag with CW4 McCutcheon, to arrange a meeting tomorrow morning with Neil Morrison to check out the bird and get it to the museum. If all works out, you can say "I was there when that bird was discovered!". Neil was quite suprised by the fact that it was here and no one seemed to know about it. The fact that is on Fort Irwin and is so complete has him almost watering at the mouth.

Roy_A_Lingle · Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Cobra found at NTC!!!

- SFC_Jeff_Button

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I forgot this picture of the chain gun before.

Hi Jeff! Hi Folks!

"Chain gun"?

Gatling guns are gear driven. That not be a chain gun sir.

Bradleys have, I think, the ONLY chain drive auto cannons in use by the US Military.

My 2 cents,
Sgt, Scouts Out!

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

- Roy_A_Lingle

"Chain gun"?

Gatling guns are gear driven. That not be a chain gun sir.

Concur. The chain gun is a relatively recent arrival on the US Army scene. That is the rear portion (no barrel cluster) of a gatling-type gun. GE I think... Westinghouse maybe?. A little google-fu can easily establish who made it.

Caliber should be 7.62mm. I think only the Marine versions had 20mm guns, but I could be wrong.

(I'm going a long way back in the memory archives for some of this, and it's been a while since I thought about Cobra specs!)

Chuck

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:13 am Post subject: Re: Cobra found at NTC!!!

- C_Sherman

- Roy_A_Lingle

"Chain gun"?

Gatling guns are gear driven. That not be a chain gun sir.

Concur. The chain gun is a relatively recent arrival on the US Army scene. That is the rear portion (no barrel cluster) of a gatling-type gun. GE I think... Westinghouse maybe?. A little google-fu can easily establish who made it.

Caliber should be 7.62mm. I think only the Marine versions had 20mm guns, but I could be wrong.

(I'm going a long way back in the memory archives for some of this, and it's been a while since I thought about Cobra specs!)

Chuck

Chuck, that's a 20mm (apart from recognizing the gun, you can make out "20mm automatic gun" on the stained part of the white label on it). And while you see places for six barrels, the AH-1F almost always mounted only three (and you can see marks in three of the holes in this skeleton of the gun). When mounted on the stub wings as in Vietnam, we always had all six.

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

- Doug_Kibbey

Chuck, that's a 20mm (apart from recognizing the gun, you can make out "20mm automatic gun" on the stained part of the white label on it). And while you see places for six barrels, the AH-1F almost always mounted only three (and you can see marks in three of the holes in this skeleton of the gun). When mounted on the stub wings as in Vietnam, we always had all six.

I stand corrected. Cool. I didn't think that the Army used the 20mm version.

"The M197 electric cannon is a three-barreled electric Gatling gun developed primarily for use by US Army helicopter gunships.

"Development of the M197 began in 1967 after experience in the Vietnam War revealed the inadequacy of the 7.62mm Minigun for gunship use. The M197 is essentially a lightened version of the General Electric M61 Vulcan cannon, with three barrels instead of six. Its maximum rate of fire is one quarter that of the Vulcan, largely to limit its recoil for light aircraft and helicopter use. It shares the Vulcan's M50 and PGU series 20mm ammunition."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...atling_gun

Since the M61 is rated from 3000 to 6000 rounds per minute, that makes this between 750 and 1500 explosive BB's per minute...still pretty respectable. Easier on the ammo supply though, and I guess that recoil thing would be important.

The article says that GE was the manufacturer, but you never know who else subcontracted them. Did the label say if it was GE or something else? (When I was a kid, I found it strangely funny that the cannons were made by an electric company..."bringing good things to light", eh?)

C

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:16 am Post subject: Re: Cobra found at NTC!!!

Chuck,
M61's saw extensive use in Vietnam...here are a few of my shots of a Cobra from my Air Cav sqdn. Front turrets might mount a mini-gun (7.62) and a 40mm grenade launcher, or any combination of either. This bird is on the Scabbard Pad at Camp Eagle just west of Hue and Phu Bai in '71.
To save John's bandwidth, I'll just post the links for you to click:

www.vhpamuseum.org/wea.../20mms.jpg

www.vhpamuseum.org/wea...mmrear.jpg

D.

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