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SFC_Jeff_Button · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

I saw a picture of the C27 Spartan and thought it had a striking resemblence to the C123 Provider. Their size and shapes are almost the same. I actually had the opportunity to fly in a C123 back in 1977-78, when I was in AFJROTC in H.S., noisier than a C130 and shook bad too. Rather surprised to see the C123 has a 3,000ft higher ceiling than the C27, as well as a 325 mile longer range. I didn't see a cost on the C27 but I bet its a lot more than the $601,719 for the C123.

C-27 Spartan
Specifications
Primary Function Cargo/passenger transport
Power Plant/Manufacturer Two General Electric T64-P4D engines
Shaft Horse Power 3,400 each
Dimension 74.5 feet long by 34.7 feet wide
Wingspan 94.2 feet
Speed 250 knots
Ceiling 25,000 feet
Takeoff Weight (Typical) 56,878 pounds
Empty Weight 39,500 pounds
Range 1,500 nautical miles
Takeoff Distance 1,500 feet
Runway 1,800 feet by 45 feet

The C-123
SPECIFICATIONS
Span: 110 ft.
Length: 76 ft. 3 in.
Height: 34 ft. 6 in.
Weight: 60,000 lbs. max.
Armament: None
Engines: Two Pratt & Whitney R-2800s of 2,500 hp. each and two General Electric J85s of 2,850 lbs. thrust each
Crew: Three or four
Cost: $601,719
Serial Number: 56-4362
PERFORMANCE
Maximum speed: 240 mph.
Cruising speed: 170 mph.
Range: 1,825 miles
Service Ceiling: 28,000 ft.
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Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

- SFC_Jeff_Button

C-27 Spartan
Specifications
Dimension 74.5 feet long by 34.7 feet wide
Wingspan 94.2 feet
[img][/img][img][/img]

34.7' feet wide independent of wingspan? Unless that includes horizontal stabilizers, I kinda' doubt it....

Roy_A_Lingle · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:00 am Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

Hi Folks!

I agree they look a bit alike, but what is the size of the cargo compartment?

I get the feeling from just looking at the photos that the C27 is smaller.

Isn't the C27 one of two aircraft the Army is looking at to replace the current aircraft? I think it is called the Cepert or something like that. Very small twin engine aircraft.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Neutral

David_Reasoner · Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

- Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Folks!

I agree they look a bit alike, but what is the size of the cargo compartment?

I get the feeling from just looking at the photos that the C27 is smaller.

Isn't the C27 one of two aircraft the Army is looking at to replace the current aircraft? I think it is called the Cepert or something like that. Very small twin engine aircraft.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

Could you be referring to the C23 Sherpa? These used to be operated by the 10th Military Airlift Squadron (European Distribution System) at Zweibrucken AB, FRG in the 1980's. They were made by Short Brothers, Belfast, Ireland as a sort of improved Short Skyvan. After the 10th MAS was shut down, I believe the aircraft were transferred to the Army NG. One of the problems with the C23 was that the cargo compartment was just too short to handle the P&W F100 jet engine then in use with the F-15 and F-16. The ability to transfer replacement engines between European bases cheaply and quickly was one of the main arguments used in creating the EDS and procurring the Sherpa. Thus, the aircraft proved something of a disappointment in AF service.

David

Roy_A_Lingle · Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

- David_Reasoner

Could you be referring to the C23 Sherpa? These used to be operated by the 10th Military Airlift Squadron (European Distribution System) at Zweibrucken AB, FRG in the 1980's. They were made by Short Brothers, Belfast, Ireland as a sort of improved Short Skyvan. After the 10th MAS was shut down, I believe the aircraft were transferred to the Army NG. One of the problems with the C23 was that the cargo compartment was just too short to handle the P&W F100 jet engine then in use with the F-15 and F-16. The ability to transfer replacement engines between European bases cheaply and quickly was one of the main arguments used in creating the EDS and procurring the Sherpa. Thus, the aircraft proved something of a disappointment in AF service.

David

Bingo! That be the one David!

I didn't know the Army had picked those up after the Air Force retired them. I remember when the Air Force went to the Sec. of Dec. wanting him to make the Army give up the C-7 Caribou which he did (I think it was McNamara) . I was very surpised to learn that the Army had a twin engine fixed wing cargo plane. Too short to handle the P&W F100 engines? I wonder if that engine would fit inside a C-7 Caribou?

I have a supervisor who is in an Army Reserve POL supply unit. His unit was called up for duty in Iraq. He has a number of stories about hair rising rides in Army C-23 Sherpas and the tactics the flight crews used to avoid SAM missles.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

David_Reasoner · Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

I vaguely recall touring a C-7 Caribou that had landed at Bowman Field in Louisville, KY back in the mid to late '70's. I was a Civil Air Patrol cadet there at the time. My recollection is that it was a larger aircraft than the C-23, both internally and externally. At that time Kentucky Wing CAP had two other vintage DeHavilland of Canada products, a couple of old U-6A "Beavers".

I was at Zweibrucken AB from 1987-89, although I was with 26th TRW rather than 10th MAS. Zweibrucken AB was deactivated and handed back over to the German government in June 1991. I believe 10th MAS was deactivated at about the same time.

David

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

- David_Reasoner

I vaguely recall touring a C-7 Caribou that had landed at Bowman Field in Louisville, KY back in the mid to late '70's. I was a Civil Air Patrol cadet there at the time. My recollection is that it was a larger aircraft than the C-23, both internally and externally. At that time Kentucky Wing CAP had two other vintage DeHavilland of Canada products, a couple of old U-6A "Beavers".

I was at Zweibrucken AB from 1987-89, although I was with 26th TRW rather than 10th MAS. Zweibrucken AB was deactivated and handed back over to the German government in June 1991. I believe 10th MAS was deactivated at about the same time.

David

C-7 was smaller, I believe, David. Did the one you saw have radial engines (Caribou) or upgraded to turbines (Buffalo, with some airframe mods also)?

David_Reasoner · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: C123 Provider vs C27 Spartan

Hi, Doug. The Buffalo was a similar-looking but completely different bird. The one I walked about in was definitely a Caribou. The Caribou had a span of 95' 7", length of 72' 7", height of 31'8". Max takeoff weight was 28,500lbs. The Sherpa had a span of 74' 8", length of 58', height of 16' 3". Max takeoff weight was only slightly less at 25,500lbs. Don't have internal dimensions for the cargo compartment, but I seem to recall the C-7 looked bigger inside. Of course, my memory was never what it used to be!

David

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