±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 291
Total: 291
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Downloads
02: Community Forums
03: Home
04: Home
05: Photo Gallery
06: Photo Gallery
07: Home
08: Home
09: Home
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Member Screenshots
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: News
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Photo Gallery
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Downloads
25: Home
26: Home
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Downloads
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Downloads
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Photo Gallery
36: CPGlang
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Photo Gallery
40: Photo Gallery
41: Member Screenshots
42: Home
43: Member Screenshots
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Home
48: Member Screenshots
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: Member Screenshots
52: Downloads
53: Photo Gallery
54: Member Screenshots
55: Home
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Member Screenshots
59: Member Screenshots
60: News
61: Home
62: Home
63: Home
64: Home
65: Member Screenshots
66: Statistics
67: Home
68: Home
69: Home
70: Member Screenshots
71: Home
72: Home
73: Home
74: Photo Gallery
75: Community Forums
76: Member Screenshots
77: Home
78: Home
79: Statistics
80: Community Forums
81: Photo Gallery
82: Home
83: Home
84: Home
85: Home
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Member Screenshots
89: Member Screenshots
90: Home
91: Community Forums
92: Member Screenshots
93: Photo Gallery
94: Downloads
95: Home
96: Photo Gallery
97: Home
98: Your Account
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Home
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Home
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Home
114: Home
115: Home
116: Home
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Home
121: Member Screenshots
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Member Screenshots
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Home
135: Home
136: Member Screenshots
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Home
141: Home
142: Statistics
143: Home
144: Community Forums
145: Home
146: CPGlang
147: Home
148: Home
149: Home
150: Photo Gallery
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Member Screenshots
154: Member Screenshots
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Home
158: Home
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Member Screenshots
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: CPGlang
166: Home
167: Member Screenshots
168: Community Forums
169: Member Screenshots
170: Home
171: Member Screenshots
172: Home
173: Home
174: Home
175: Home
176: Home
177: Member Screenshots
178: Photo Gallery
179: Member Screenshots
180: Home
181: Home
182: Community Forums
183: Home
184: CPGlang
185: Member Screenshots
186: Home
187: Home
188: Downloads
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Downloads
192: Member Screenshots
193: Community Forums
194: Home
195: Member Screenshots
196: Photo Gallery
197: Community Forums
198: Member Screenshots
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: CPGlang
202: Member Screenshots
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: Member Screenshots
206: Photo Gallery
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Home
217: Home
218: Downloads
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Home
222: Downloads
223: Home
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Home
227: Home
228: Home
229: Home
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Member Screenshots
233: Community Forums
234: Member Screenshots
235: News Archive
236: Community Forums
237: Member Screenshots
238: Home
239: Home
240: Member Screenshots
241: Member Screenshots
242: Home
243: Member Screenshots
244: Home
245: Community Forums
246: Member Screenshots
247: Member Screenshots
248: Community Forums
249: Member Screenshots
250: CPGlang
251: Member Screenshots
252: Home
253: Community Forums
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Member Screenshots
257: Member Screenshots
258: Member Screenshots
259: Member Screenshots
260: Member Screenshots
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Member Screenshots
264: Community Forums
265: Home
266: Member Screenshots
267: Community Forums
268: Home
269: Home
270: Home
271: Member Screenshots
272: Member Screenshots
273: Member Screenshots
274: Community Forums
275: Member Screenshots
276: Community Forums
277: Home
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Home
282: Home
283: Home
284: Community Forums
285: Home
286: Home
287: Home
288: Home
289: Home
290: News
291: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Small arms question...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:05 am
Post subject: Small arms question...

[img][/img]
My son Jeffrey just posted this on the Officers Club, (the "wingy-thingy" DG) as a quiz to identify the aircraft. I am curious as to the rifle on the mans back. The picture was taken in 1956, and the "aircraft" is hanging in the Fort Eustis museum currently. Any ideas as to this weapons make/caliber.
As a side note, I will be flying to Ft Eustis ("Useless" as many of you call it) on March 22nd for my re-class training to 88N, Transportation Management Coordinator, (I'll miss the Mortars!). I'm sure it will put a serious crimp in my posting on here but I will be snapping pictures and writing serial numbers as fast as I can and will post them here as soon as possible. Once I graduate AIT, (last time I did that it was 1982) I will return to Ft Irwin and clear here to head to Fort Hood where I was from 1998-2001. I will try to volunteer at the museum there as well and any requests for info and pictures will be met as soon as I can. I'm esspecially looking forward to meeting another legendary 11th ACR trooper, in Roy Lingle. I hope to be able to show Roy, Ft Hood as I did Doug, Ft Irwin.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:13 am
Post subject: Re: Small arms question...

Question. Is the cylindrical object immediately behind the soldier's shoulder (try saying that five times really fast) part of the rifle, or is it something in front of the rifle? It doesn't look like it is perfectely aligned with the barrel to me.

I have been staring at this thing for quite a long time. The only things that have come to my mind so far are some variant of an FN-FAL/SLR or (very unlikely) an old Johnson.

My eyes are crossed, now, so i think it's time for bed.
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:52 am
Post subject: Re: Small arms question...

Hi Folks!

Not real sure on this, but from what little I can see of the weapon above the canteen and below the tube item makes me think it MIGHT be a BAR with the bipod removed and possible a blank firing adapter mounted.

The 1956 makes me think it is to soon for the M14 rifle and that sure doesn't look like a M1903 Springfield (still used as a sniper rifle) or a M1 Grand. Shocked

As for the tube item, possible a flashlight? Confused

I remember that back pack with tent roll. That was what the Marines were using during my four years (1964-1968). Evil or Very Mad

My 2 cents worth of guessing.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Small arms question...

I'm thinking BAR also, hard to tell.

Several improved versions of this kind of contraption were built..and abandoned after they came to realize the issues of:
conspicuity...the operator was a huge vulnerable target with no defenses while operating it.
recoil...anytimg the operator fired a weapon, it upset the craft terribly...I've seen film of the improved ducted fan version of this and it's all the guy can do to get off a shot while grabbing for the bars and trying to keep the thing stable afterwards.

In the optimism of the fifties', we thought we could do anything. Rolling Eyes


Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Small arms question...

Jeff,

I'll bet dollars to donuts that it's a T48. It's not commonly appreciated that the US tested the famous Belgian FN FAL, which it designated as T48. This testing was done alongside the various Sprigfield Arsenal test rifles that carried US rifle evolution from M1 to M14. One report said that the T48 was found technically superior to the T44 (early M14), but it was squashed because of "NIH" (Not Invented Here).

Gary
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Small arms question...

- Tumbleweed
If that guy fell off he'd be in very bad shape! Sad


This, I believe, is the De Lackner DH-5 Aerocycle....a dangerous forerunner to the equally ill-conceived, but less lethal Hiller VZ-1 Pawnee. There is an nice webpage on all the "flying platforms" with some history here:

www.vectorsite.net/avplatfm.html

On a side note, I've seen film of the Hiller versions...it was all the operator could do to get off a single shot without upsetting the craft from the recoil of an M14 and then having to grab for the bars to regain control. Any movement at all upset the vehicle and it required constant attention to maintain hover or stable flight. And of course, you present quite a target to the enemy with no abilty to return fire. Excellent.

Those of you into flight simming know of about "Unreal Aviation" over at Hovercontrol and the downloadable model of one of these things, along with jetpacks and the like. It's free, and has flight characteristics not (unsurprizingly) like the Bell 206 as it's flight model.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Small arms question...

"If that guy fell off he'd be in very bad shape! "

Even if a strap came loose and hung down it would be disasterous!! If you did fire while it was running what would happen to the spent brass? Can you guess what would happen when it fell down into the blades? no telling what direction it would go in.

I also just noticed the 'platform' has a civilian registration number on the vertical gas tank. So maybe the Army was doing a 'fly before buy' program.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Small arms question...

- SFC_Jeff_Button

As a side note, I will be flying to Ft Eustis ("Useless" as many of you call it) on March 22nd for my re-class training to 88N, Transportation Management Coordinator, (I'll miss the Mortars!). I'm sure it will put a serious crimp in my posting on here but I will be snapping pictures and writing serial numbers as fast as I can and will post them here as soon as possible.


Jeff, how long will you be at Eustis? You know, the Ordnance Museum at APG is just a "short" 4 hour drive away from Eustis Wink

At least its a lot closer than from Irwin or Hood...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Small arms question...

I already suggested that to him Smile

Jeff I'll pop you an email with contact info. If you can get up to the DC area, We'll take it from there some weekend.

There will probably be PCs somehere on post that you can get to the internet from to keep up with the group, you'll probably have plenty of time on your hands (I know I did when I crosstrained to computers back in '82 at Keesler AFB)

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
David_Reasoner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 127
Location: South Central Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Small arms question...

The visible portions of the receiver and barrel look more like FN than BAR, so I would have to agree with Gary that it is probably a T48. The time frame would be correct for it as well.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Small arms question...

Could the rifle be an M1 (or an M14) with a rifle grenade adapter on the end, and a rifle grenade strapped to the side? Just my thought.

C

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Small arms question...

99 % certain that it's a T-48, produced by H7R for trials against the eventual M-14. all the visibe features match the photo


HTH

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
David_Reasoner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 127
Location: South Central Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Small arms question...

- C_Sherman
Could the rifle be an M1 (or an M14) with a rifle grenade adapter on the end, and a rifle grenade strapped to the side? Just my thought.

C


Ummm, no gas tube visible under the barrel like on an M1 or M14.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Small arms question...

Hi Folks!

I must agree it is clearly NOT a M-1 or M-14. I also agree it is NOT a BAR either now. Remember, I said I was not sure and it 'might' be Confused . The barrel did look a bit off Confused and the end of the butt stock didn't look right Confused either. I was thinking only US weapons. Guess I was stuck in NIH mode of the 1950s. Evil or Very Mad

The photo of the T-48 does look a lot more like the weapon in the whirly bird photo.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Cloudy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:59 am
Post subject: Re: Small arms question...

- piney
99 % certain that it's a T-48, produced by H7R for trials against the eventual M-14. all the visibe features match the photo


HTH

Jeff Lewis


Hello all!

First post here and I believe that you are absolutely correct. The grooved forends match exactly and it's just an optical trick that makes the handguard look much larger than the museum version. I think that the museum example may be missing the circular cap/band under the front sight.

Alan
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum