±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 771
Total: 771
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Member Screenshots
03: News Archive
04: Member Screenshots
05: Home
06: Downloads
07: Member Screenshots
08: News Archive
09: Community Forums
10: Downloads
11: Home
12: Member Screenshots
13: Treasury
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Downloads
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: Community Forums
20: Member Screenshots
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Member Screenshots
25: Community Forums
26: News Archive
27: Member Screenshots
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Downloads
31: Photo Gallery
32: Member Screenshots
33: Photo Gallery
34: Community Forums
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Photo Gallery
38: News Archive
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Member Screenshots
44: News
45: Photo Gallery
46: News Archive
47: Your Account
48: Community Forums
49: Member Screenshots
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Member Screenshots
60: Photo Gallery
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Downloads
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Member Screenshots
68: Community Forums
69: Photo Gallery
70: Downloads
71: Home
72: Member Screenshots
73: Home
74: Community Forums
75: News Archive
76: Member Screenshots
77: Community Forums
78: News Archive
79: Home
80: Community Forums
81: Tell a Friend
82: Member Screenshots
83: Photo Gallery
84: Member Screenshots
85: Member Screenshots
86: Home
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Downloads
92: News Archive
93: Downloads
94: Member Screenshots
95: Community Forums
96: News Archive
97: Community Forums
98: Member Screenshots
99: News Archive
100: Member Screenshots
101: Member Screenshots
102: Community Forums
103: Downloads
104: Community Forums
105: Statistics
106: Member Screenshots
107: Community Forums
108: Member Screenshots
109: Home
110: Community Forums
111: Photo Gallery
112: Photo Gallery
113: Photo Gallery
114: Community Forums
115: Downloads
116: Member Screenshots
117: Community Forums
118: Member Screenshots
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Member Screenshots
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Member Screenshots
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Downloads
133: Community Forums
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Member Screenshots
137: Community Forums
138: Downloads
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Member Screenshots
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Member Screenshots
148: Your Account
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: News Archive
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Member Screenshots
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: News Archive
160: News Archive
161: Member Screenshots
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Photo Gallery
168: Downloads
169: Community Forums
170: Photo Gallery
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: News
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Downloads
190: Photo Gallery
191: Community Forums
192: Member Screenshots
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Member Screenshots
196: Downloads
197: Community Forums
198: Member Screenshots
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: News Archive
202: Community Forums
203: Member Screenshots
204: Member Screenshots
205: Downloads
206: Photo Gallery
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: News Archive
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Member Screenshots
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Member Screenshots
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: News Archive
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Member Screenshots
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: Downloads
240: News Archive
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Downloads
247: News Archive
248: Community Forums
249: Member Screenshots
250: Member Screenshots
251: Photo Gallery
252: Home
253: Statistics
254: Community Forums
255: Home
256: Home
257: News
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Member Screenshots
265: Photo Gallery
266: Community Forums
267: Downloads
268: Member Screenshots
269: Community Forums
270: Member Screenshots
271: News
272: News Archive
273: Photo Gallery
274: News
275: Home
276: Contact
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Community Forums
280: Member Screenshots
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Member Screenshots
284: Community Forums
285: News Archive
286: Community Forums
287: Home
288: Member Screenshots
289: News Archive
290: Photo Gallery
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Photo Gallery
294: Member Screenshots
295: Community Forums
296: Photo Gallery
297: Member Screenshots
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: News Archive
301: Home
302: Member Screenshots
303: Photo Gallery
304: Home
305: Community Forums
306: Downloads
307: Member Screenshots
308: Community Forums
309: Member Screenshots
310: Member Screenshots
311: Home
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: News
316: Photo Gallery
317: Member Screenshots
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Member Screenshots
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Member Screenshots
327: Community Forums
328: Photo Gallery
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Home
334: Home
335: Photo Gallery
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: Photo Gallery
340: News Archive
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Member Screenshots
344: Photo Gallery
345: Community Forums
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Downloads
349: Photo Gallery
350: News Archive
351: Downloads
352: Member Screenshots
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: Downloads
365: Member Screenshots
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Downloads
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Tell a Friend
379: Community Forums
380: Member Screenshots
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Photo Gallery
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Photo Gallery
390: Downloads
391: Photo Gallery
392: News Archive
393: Community Forums
394: News Archive
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Home
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Home
403: Community Forums
404: News
405: Photo Gallery
406: Community Forums
407: Downloads
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Member Screenshots
412: Community Forums
413: Photo Gallery
414: News
415: Home
416: Member Screenshots
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: News Archive
420: Member Screenshots
421: Photo Gallery
422: Member Screenshots
423: Community Forums
424: Contact
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: News Archive
430: Community Forums
431: Member Screenshots
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Home
439: Member Screenshots
440: Downloads
441: Statistics
442: Photo Gallery
443: News Archive
444: Community Forums
445: Statistics
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Home
449: Community Forums
450: Member Screenshots
451: Community Forums
452: News Archive
453: Member Screenshots
454: Community Forums
455: Member Screenshots
456: Member Screenshots
457: Member Screenshots
458: Home
459: News Archive
460: Community Forums
461: Downloads
462: News Archive
463: News Archive
464: Member Screenshots
465: News Archive
466: Downloads
467: Home
468: Community Forums
469: Photo Gallery
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Photo Gallery
473: Member Screenshots
474: Home
475: News Archive
476: Member Screenshots
477: Community Forums
478: Member Screenshots
479: Member Screenshots
480: Community Forums
481: News Archive
482: Community Forums
483: News Archive
484: Downloads
485: Member Screenshots
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: News
489: News
490: Member Screenshots
491: Home
492: Your Account
493: Community Forums
494: News Archive
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: News Archive
500: Member Screenshots
501: Home
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: News Archive
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Photo Gallery
510: Community Forums
511: Statistics
512: Community Forums
513: Member Screenshots
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: News Archive
517: News Archive
518: Home
519: Member Screenshots
520: Downloads
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: News
525: Member Screenshots
526: Photo Gallery
527: Member Screenshots
528: Photo Gallery
529: News Archive
530: Home
531: Member Screenshots
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Member Screenshots
536: Community Forums
537: Member Screenshots
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Member Screenshots
543: Community Forums
544: Photo Gallery
545: Community Forums
546: Home
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: Community Forums
550: Member Screenshots
551: Downloads
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Member Screenshots
556: Photo Gallery
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Member Screenshots
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Photo Gallery
565: Member Screenshots
566: Home
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: News Archive
570: Community Forums
571: Member Screenshots
572: Community Forums
573: News
574: Community Forums
575: News
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Home
579: Home
580: News Archive
581: Home
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Home
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Photo Gallery
593: Photo Gallery
594: Community Forums
595: Home
596: Community Forums
597: Photo Gallery
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Member Screenshots
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Photo Gallery
611: Member Screenshots
612: Home
613: Photo Gallery
614: Member Screenshots
615: Community Forums
616: Photo Gallery
617: Home
618: Member Screenshots
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Member Screenshots
626: Photo Gallery
627: Photo Gallery
628: Member Screenshots
629: Photo Gallery
630: Member Screenshots
631: Member Screenshots
632: News Archive
633: Member Screenshots
634: Member Screenshots
635: Downloads
636: Member Screenshots
637: News Archive
638: Community Forums
639: Member Screenshots
640: Downloads
641: Home
642: Community Forums
643: Member Screenshots
644: Downloads
645: Community Forums
646: Home
647: Member Screenshots
648: News
649: Member Screenshots
650: Photo Gallery
651: News Archive
652: Home
653: Photo Gallery
654: Downloads
655: Community Forums
656: Photo Gallery
657: Downloads
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Member Screenshots
661: Member Screenshots
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Photo Gallery
666: Community Forums
667: Home
668: Statistics
669: News Archive
670: Community Forums
671: Tell a Friend
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Photo Gallery
680: Community Forums
681: Photo Gallery
682: Member Screenshots
683: News Archive
684: Community Forums
685: Home
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Downloads
689: Downloads
690: Downloads
691: Home
692: Photo Gallery
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Community Forums
699: Community Forums
700: Member Screenshots
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Member Screenshots
705: Community Forums
706: Community Forums
707: Community Forums
708: Home
709: Community Forums
710: Photo Gallery
711: Member Screenshots
712: Community Forums
713: Member Screenshots
714: Home
715: Community Forums
716: Home
717: Community Forums
718: Photo Gallery
719: Community Forums
720: Community Forums
721: Member Screenshots
722: Community Forums
723: Community Forums
724: Home
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Community Forums
729: Member Screenshots
730: Community Forums
731: Member Screenshots
732: News Archive
733: Community Forums
734: Community Forums
735: Community Forums
736: Photo Gallery
737: Member Screenshots
738: Member Screenshots
739: Member Screenshots
740: Community Forums
741: Home
742: Community Forums
743: Community Forums
744: Photo Gallery
745: Community Forums
746: Community Forums
747: Community Forums
748: Member Screenshots
749: Community Forums
750: Community Forums
751: Photo Gallery
752: Community Forums
753: Your Account
754: Community Forums
755: Community Forums
756: Community Forums
757: Community Forums
758: Photo Gallery
759: Member Screenshots
760: Home
761: Member Screenshots
762: Community Forums
763: Home
764: Downloads
765: Community Forums
766: Community Forums
767: Community Forums
768: Home
769: Community Forums
770: Community Forums
771: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:45 pm
Post subject: Re: M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)

Assuming that is an APFSDS projectile on the far left, is the short cartridge the one that launches it? Is there anything that goes in between the two when they are loaded into the breech?
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:43 pm
Post subject: Re: M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)

Just a guess but I would assume they rechambered the tank mounted 120mm gun to use a shorter case than the 120mm AA gun. This would be desirable because of the cramped space in a tank turret. With newer more poereful propellent a shorter case could still provide a high MV.

Is the round on the left a HEAT round? I don't think APFSDS was around when the 120mm gunned M103 was in service was it? The shape of the front end of the round looks like a HEAT round with the stand off nose that was common in that era. I know it is desirable for a HEAT round not to spin so I would guess that the fins were ther to stabilize the round instead of using the rifling in the gun barrel

again the above is just my guess as to what and why.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:59 pm
Post subject: Re: M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)

As bsmart said, the projectile to the far left is a HEAT round with a stand-off probe. That's what HEAT rounds have looked like for about 40 years now - even Russian rounds!
An explanation for the shorter cartridge case may be that the HEAT round used a smaller charge than the AP. They usually do. The Russian 125mm gun with its split rounds gets around that problem by packing a portion of the propellant with the APFSDS round itself, so both the HEAT and AP can share the same charge. The dramatically different case size for the 120mm may have been so the loader couldn't accidentally mistake a big AP charge for the HEAT charge. For all I know firing a HEAT round with a full AP charge may have been dangerous! ...Just a guess on my part.


Last edited by mike_Duplessis on Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)

Oops, my error. That is a HEAT round and not an APFSDS. (Hanging head)

I still am having trouble picturing how this works when separately loaded. Does the loader ram in the HEAT round first, then ram in the cartridge afterward? It doesn't seem as if it would be easy to ram in the projectile by hand, what with the fins and all. Any help with that?
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:07 pm
Post subject: Re: M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)

- Jinx
Oops, my error. That is a HEAT round and not an APFSDS. (Hanging head)

I still am having trouble picturing how this works when separately loaded. Does the loader ram in the HEAT round first, then ram in the cartridge afterward? It doesn't seem as if it would be easy to ram in the projectile by hand, what with the fins and all. Any help with that?


Its all one piece ammo.

The image has the rounds seperated to show the actual projectiles size.

The loader just removes the round from the rack swings it around (or flips the round) and slams it in the chamber. Simple process.

As for interior space, I've been in an M103 on several occasions. I felt it was hugely 'roomie' as compared to the Abrams.

The TCs position being an amazing sub-area in the rear of the turret. I was envious of all the places to 'stow' personal convience items (ie 'munchies' and the such...) LOTTA ROOM!!

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:20 pm
Post subject: Re: M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)

The 120mm ammo thing is confusing because some guns (the oscillating turret designs) used one-piece rounds and some used split rounds for the same gun type. The reason why the rounds were split were partially to do with unweildy length, but also to do with their weight. Load 8 or 9 70+ pound one piece AP rounds in quick succession and you'll be ready to lie down for a nap! It seems round weight doesn't usually exceed 50 lbs. if they're going to be manually loaded (artillery doesn't count).

Maybe Marine M103s were different and used the 1-piece rounds because jar-heads are just more manly than the rest of us. Wink

I'd swear that either Conqueror or M103 (or maybe just the prototype) used two loaders in an efort to speed up ROF. But I can't recall which it was.
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:53 pm
Post subject: Re: M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)

Hi Folks!

Don't forgot, the M-103 with all it's room had TWO loaders.

Where is OldTop when we need him. He would know what type of ammo the M-103 used.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:26 pm
Post subject: Re: M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)

I haven't 'talked' him since the switch over...

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
tankmodeler
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Ontario
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:33 pm
Post subject: Re: M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)

The 103 used two-piece ammo for all rounds and had two loaders in the monsterous turret. The Conq was the same as it useed the same gun.

I must say I find it strange that the HEAT round had a shorter case. I know the charge in the case was smaller because the velocity of the HEAT round doesn't affect it's penetration, but most breech designs seal the breech from the propellant gasses by the mouth of the case expanding under the pressure and sealing at the forward lip of the case. If that lip is in two places, you have to make bloody sure that two places in the breech are machined precisely enough to do the job and that the wear and tear of normal firing doesn't degrade that second location so that gasses bypass the block and get back into the turret. The shorter case would also mean that the normal breech surface would be exposed to the gasses from the shorter HEAT casing. Very bad for the metal and for the abilitty to seal the breech.

Makes no sense. I'm not sure that it could be done for an operational vehicle.

Are we sure the casing hasn't been cut down and then mounted inthe display? Sometimes displays are made up from parts laying around or refurbished from older displays and are not necessarily totally accurate. Just a thought.

Paul Roberts

_________________
Paul Roberts
President
Armor Modeling and Preservation Society
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:41 am
Post subject: Re: M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)

I was at Aberdeen today and another volunteer who is more interested in ammunition than tanks or small arms was there (He is a professional EOD guy). I asked him if he knew anything about this but couldn't bring up a computer where we were. He said he had recently found out about the difference in the two 120mm cases and there is a reason. He is going to dig out the information on it and leave it at the museum for me. When I get the information (It may be a few weeks) I'll pass it on.

Where was the display?

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:02 am
Post subject: Re: M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

Don't forgot, the M-103 with all it's room had TWO loaders.

Where is OldTop when we need him. He would know what type of ammo the M-103 used.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile


You got me curious, so I searched the old forum and sent "oletop" an email just today...lessee' what happens....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:33 pm
Post subject: Re: M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)

I finally dug out my copy of Hunnicutt's "FIREPOWER" (yes, I own a rare precious edition of FIREPOWER) and here's what I found on the rounds:

The complete AP-T M358 (two piece) round weighted a hefty 107 pounds. The shot alone weighed 50.85 pounds. AP and training shells used the propelling charge M46, which used a case 34.7" long (the shot was 18.76" long, making the total round a bit under 4 1/2 feet long").

The HE and WP shells used propelling charge T21E1, which also had a case 34.7" long.

The HEAT round M469 pictured above didn't come about til the Marine upgrade of the M103 in the early 60s. The HEAT shell was 29 inches long. The propelling chage that went with it was just 26.35" long. Special round stowage had to be installed for these odd-size rounds.

To show the difference between the long and short propelling charges, the AP-T M348 round had a muzzle energy of 4,318 foot-tons. The HEAT shell's muzzle energy was just half that at 2,184 foot-tons.
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)

In comparison, does anybody know right off the weights of the various rounds for the 120mm Rheinmetall gun in the Abrams and Leopard 2?
Back to top
View user's profile
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:07 pm
Post subject: Re: M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)

I want to say the current 120mm gun rounds weigh about 50 pounds more-or-less. The benefit of not using an old-fashioned solid AP shot or a brass case. Someone who knows better should confirm or deny this, though.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:55 pm
Post subject: Re: M103 Tank Ammo (120mm)

Mike

120mm HEAT(M830:HEAT-MP-T) 53.4 lbs
120mm SABOT(M829A1: APFSDS-T) 46.22 lbs

As referenced from 'M1 Abrams at War' by Michael Green

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum