±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 795
Total: 795
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Photo Gallery
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: News
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Downloads
17: Home
18: News Archive
19: Home
20: Home
21: Member Screenshots
22: Community Forums
23: Your Account
24: Downloads
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Home
30: Home
31: Member Screenshots
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Downloads
35: Community Forums
36: Downloads
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Member Screenshots
46: Downloads
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Home
52: News Archive
53: Photo Gallery
54: Member Screenshots
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: Downloads
58: Community Forums
59: Home
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Member Screenshots
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Member Screenshots
72: Member Screenshots
73: Home
74: Photo Gallery
75: News Archive
76: Downloads
77: Member Screenshots
78: Community Forums
79: Member Screenshots
80: Community Forums
81: Photo Gallery
82: Home
83: Home
84: Home
85: Community Forums
86: Photo Gallery
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Home
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: News Archive
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Member Screenshots
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Home
103: Your Account
104: Supporters
105: Home
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Statistics
110: Downloads
111: Your Account
112: Your Account
113: Downloads
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Home
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: News Archive
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Downloads
134: Downloads
135: Community Forums
136: Photo Gallery
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Home
141: Home
142: Home
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Downloads
153: Member Screenshots
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Home
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: News Archive
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Downloads
167: Downloads
168: Home
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Home
173: Photo Gallery
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Downloads
177: Member Screenshots
178: Home
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Photo Gallery
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Member Screenshots
186: Home
187: Tell a Friend
188: Community Forums
189: News Archive
190: Home
191: Member Screenshots
192: Members List
193: Home
194: Home
195: Home
196: Home
197: Community Forums
198: Your Account
199: Your Account
200: Photo Gallery
201: Home
202: Home
203: News Archive
204: Your Account
205: Community Forums
206: Home
207: Home
208: Community Forums
209: Home
210: Downloads
211: Home
212: Community Forums
213: Photo Gallery
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: Home
217: Downloads
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Downloads
221: Contact
222: Home
223: Downloads
224: Member Screenshots
225: Photo Gallery
226: Your Account
227: Community Forums
228: Photo Gallery
229: Home
230: Home
231: News Archive
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Member Screenshots
236: Statistics
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Home
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Home
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Home
251: Photo Gallery
252: Home
253: Home
254: Downloads
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: News Archive
258: Community Forums
259: Your Account
260: News Archive
261: Your Account
262: News
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Community Forums
268: Home
269: Home
270: Home
271: Member Screenshots
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: News Archive
276: Home
277: Home
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Downloads
282: News Archive
283: LinkToUs
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Home
287: Community Forums
288: Statistics
289: Community Forums
290: Home
291: Statistics
292: Community Forums
293: Home
294: Home
295: Community Forums
296: Photo Gallery
297: Downloads
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Home
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Photo Gallery
307: Photo Gallery
308: Downloads
309: Home
310: Community Forums
311: Home
312: Community Forums
313: Home
314: Community Forums
315: Home
316: Home
317: Home
318: Downloads
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Community Forums
322: Photo Gallery
323: News Archive
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Supporters
332: Home
333: News Archive
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Downloads
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Member Screenshots
344: Home
345: Community Forums
346: Home
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Downloads
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Downloads
353: Community Forums
354: Home
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Home
358: News
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Downloads
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Community Forums
367: Home
368: Home
369: Photo Gallery
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Home
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: News Archive
379: Community Forums
380: Home
381: Downloads
382: Community Forums
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Photo Gallery
387: Member Screenshots
388: Home
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Home
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Home
396: Member Screenshots
397: Community Forums
398: Member Screenshots
399: Home
400: Member Screenshots
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Downloads
406: Home
407: Community Forums
408: Member Screenshots
409: Home
410: Downloads
411: Home
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Home
415: Your Account
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Downloads
421: Community Forums
422: Home
423: Home
424: Community Forums
425: Home
426: Photo Gallery
427: Home
428: Home
429: Community Forums
430: Home
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Home
436: Member Screenshots
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: News Archive
444: Home
445: Home
446: Home
447: Home
448: Home
449: Home
450: Home
451: Home
452: Community Forums
453: Home
454: Community Forums
455: Photo Gallery
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Home
460: Home
461: Home
462: Home
463: Home
464: Home
465: Home
466: Home
467: Community Forums
468: Home
469: News
470: Home
471: Home
472: Home
473: Home
474: Member Screenshots
475: Community Forums
476: Home
477: Community Forums
478: Home
479: Downloads
480: Contact
481: Home
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Member Screenshots
485: Downloads
486: Community Forums
487: Home
488: Search
489: Downloads
490: Home
491: Home
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Photo Gallery
499: Community Forums
500: Home
501: Community Forums
502: Member Screenshots
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Home
507: Photo Gallery
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Home
513: Member Screenshots
514: Community Forums
515: Downloads
516: Community Forums
517: News Archive
518: Home
519: Community Forums
520: Home
521: Home
522: News Archive
523: Community Forums
524: Home
525: Home
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Home
532: Community Forums
533: Home
534: Community Forums
535: Home
536: Home
537: Photo Gallery
538: Home
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Home
542: Home
543: Community Forums
544: Downloads
545: Photo Gallery
546: Community Forums
547: News Archive
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Home
555: Member Screenshots
556: Home
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Home
560: Member Screenshots
561: Community Forums
562: Home
563: Member Screenshots
564: Photo Gallery
565: Home
566: Home
567: Home
568: Community Forums
569: Photo Gallery
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Photo Gallery
573: Community Forums
574: Home
575: Supporters
576: News
577: Home
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Photo Gallery
581: Home
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Home
587: Home
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Photo Gallery
595: Downloads
596: Community Forums
597: Member Screenshots
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Home
601: Community Forums
602: Home
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Photo Gallery
606: Home
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Home
612: Community Forums
613: Downloads
614: Your Account
615: Community Forums
616: News Archive
617: Community Forums
618: Downloads
619: Home
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Downloads
623: Home
624: Home
625: Member Screenshots
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Home
629: Member Screenshots
630: Community Forums
631: Home
632: Community Forums
633: Home
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Member Screenshots
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Member Screenshots
640: Home
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Member Screenshots
647: Community Forums
648: Member Screenshots
649: LinkToUs
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Photo Gallery
654: Community Forums
655: Downloads
656: Community Forums
657: Home
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Photo Gallery
663: Community Forums
664: Home
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Home
669: Community Forums
670: Home
671: Home
672: Community Forums
673: Photo Gallery
674: Community Forums
675: Photo Gallery
676: Community Forums
677: Photo Gallery
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Member Screenshots
681: Community Forums
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Home
685: Community Forums
686: Home
687: Home
688: Community Forums
689: Home
690: Community Forums
691: Photo Gallery
692: Home
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Home
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Home
699: Home
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Community Forums
705: Community Forums
706: Community Forums
707: Photo Gallery
708: Your Account
709: Community Forums
710: Home
711: Home
712: Community Forums
713: Home
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Photo Gallery
717: Community Forums
718: Downloads
719: Home
720: Community Forums
721: Community Forums
722: Community Forums
723: Your Account
724: Community Forums
725: Your Account
726: Community Forums
727: Home
728: Community Forums
729: Home
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Community Forums
733: Community Forums
734: Community Forums
735: Community Forums
736: Community Forums
737: Photo Gallery
738: Community Forums
739: Home
740: Home
741: Community Forums
742: News Archive
743: Your Account
744: Home
745: Community Forums
746: Home
747: Community Forums
748: Community Forums
749: Community Forums
750: Home
751: Home
752: Member Screenshots
753: Member Screenshots
754: Community Forums
755: News Archive
756: Community Forums
757: Home
758: Community Forums
759: Home
760: News
761: Community Forums
762: Community Forums
763: Photo Gallery
764: Your Account
765: Home
766: Downloads
767: Home
768: Home
769: Community Forums
770: Home
771: Home
772: Statistics
773: Home
774: Community Forums
775: Member Screenshots
776: News
777: Home
778: Community Forums
779: Community Forums
780: Home
781: Downloads
782: Community Forums
783: Community Forums
784: Home
785: Home
786: Community Forums
787: Downloads
788: Photo Gallery
789: Community Forums
790: Photo Gallery
791: Community Forums
792: Community Forums
793: Community Forums
794: Community Forums
795: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
brazillian vehicle
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
panthertank
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:08 pm
Post subject: brazillian vehicle

Howdy all, (first ever post)

I saw this picture up in the paper today and was wondering what kind of vehicle it is. It's from the Brazillian army is all that the picture says. Anyway, thanks for any info!
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:24 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

Hi Panthertank...thanks for the post!

Rocinha is one of the largest (and in Rio, the largest) favelas (shantytowns...or "city-within-a-city") in the country. Administration is....complex, and criminal gangs co-exist with police in a peculiar relationship that periodically breaks out in "police invasions" and spectacular gun battles. This pic seems likely to relate to a police action aimed at drug trafficing and they don't go in there lightly armed.

Rocinha is located on a steep incline with a lot of convoluted streets, as you can see.

I don't know what the vehicle is....might it be locally made by Bernardini or somebody?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:33 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

- panthertank
Howdy all, (first ever post)

I saw this picture up in the paper today and was wondering what kind of vehicle it is. It's from the Brazillian army is all that the picture says. Anyway, thanks for any info!


That is an EE-11 Urutu, made by the former Brazilian armored vehicle manufacturer ENGESA...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EE-11_Urutu

I posted several pics of it on this thread:
www.com-central.net/in...amp;t=3227

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:31 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

Ooooh, that doesn't sound promising - "former" manufacturer?
I tried looking up Engesa's fate on the net and I must admit my my inability to speak Portugese has rather hampered the effort. I don't know if the line "Setenta destes foram adquiridos pela Empresa NIMDA Co. Ltd de Israel em 2002." means that the company was acquired by an Israeli firm or just some of its products were purchased.
Danged mono-lingual American! Confused

Note how the Cascaval below looks like a slightly enlarged M8 Greyhound in this shot!

Back to top
View user's profile
Uhu_Fledermaus
Aircraft Demolition Expert

Offline Offline
Joined: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 4369
Location: Blaricum, The Netherlands ~GMT+1
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:50 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

"Setenta destes foram adquiridos pela Empresa NIMDA Co. Ltd de Israel em 2002."


70 vehicles where acquired by the Israely company NIMDA Co in 2002


Last edited by Uhu_Fledermaus on Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile ICQ Number MSN Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

- mike_Duplessis
Ooooh, that doesn't sound promising - "former" manufacturer?
I tried looking up Engesa's fate on the net and I must admit my my inability to speak Portugese has rather hampered the effort. I don't know if the line "Setenta destes foram adquiridos pela Empresa NIMDA Co. Ltd de Israel em 2002." means that the company was acquired by an Israeli firm or just some of its products were purchased.
Danged mono-lingual American! Confused

Note how the Cascaval below looks like a slightly enlarged M8 Greyhound in this shot!


Looking elsewhere on the same page:
"NIMDA, the Israeli concern, acquired some 100 vehicles, demonstrating the continued viability of this product by modernization and refitting" - or words to that effect. It goes on to note that NIMDA has a history of modernization of older designs that continues the useful service life of the selected vehicles, of which several examples are given, like the Sherman.
Basically ENGESA is presenting this as a vote-of-confidence that the design/manufacture still has some legs. Not an acquisiton of the company itself.
That's a pretty good webpage...with a nice poster of three designs in color, definitely a keeper....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:01 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

It appears they went bankrupt in 1990/1993:

"By the mid-1980s, Engesa had expanded to a group of twelve subsidiaries and employed more than 5,000 people. By that time, the company had spent US$100 million on the development of the Osório, a main battle tank, but was unable to find a buyer for it. The Osório project came to an abrupt end with Operation Desert Storm against Iraq in 1991. In 1990 Engesa had won the evaluation process by the Saudis. After Desert Storm, Brazil was no match for United States competition, given the close ties that developed between Saudi Arabia and the United States during the war with Iraq.

"In early 1990, Brazil's two major manufacturers, Engesa and Avibrás, filed for a concordata [the equivalent of chapter-11 bankruptcy]. By the mid-1990s it appeared to some that Brazil's arms industry had virtually disappeared. Engesa was dismembered, with some of its companies sold to private interests, and the ordnance-related firms taken over by the state and integrated with Imbel (Indústria de Material Bélico - Industry of War Materiél).

"Engesa Engenheiros Espacializados SA is based in Sao Paulo, Brazil, and manufactures 4x4 and 6x6 military trucks, transmissions and other components."

www.globalsecurity.org...engesa.htm

"The EE-T1 Osório was a very modern tank developed with a unique combination of firepower, mobility and armor protection. It was directly compared with the Abrams M1 (US), Challenger (UK) and others during tests in the Middle East, demonstrating its excellent performance. This tank has not reached production, however, being a victim of the company's financial problems.

"Engesa, based in São José dos Campos, Brazil, went into bankruptcy in 1993."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engesa

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:16 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

Bummer. Proabably goes a long way toward explaining those M60A3's they picked up in a garage sale from the U.S...(instead of making their own, or modifying Leopards as had been done some in the past...)
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:33 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

Actually I believe a former ENGESA employee, who I actually met once, was a lurker and occasional poster on the old board - havent seen him around here yet though.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:38 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

I once wrote an short article for AFV News on 90mm low pressure guns and an Engesa executive wrote back to George Bradford (our webmaster) pointing out some of my goofs in regards to the Engesa products. So Engesa was aware of AFV News.


Last edited by mike_Duplessis on Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

- Neil_Baumgardner
Actually I believe a former ENGESA employee, who I actually met once, was a lurker and occasional poster on the old board - havent seen him around here yet though.

Neil


Jose Antonio Valls, by any chance? Don't know if he had Engesa connections, but anyway haven't seen him around for quite a while...I should send him an email to see whus'up....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:38 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

Nope, another guy. I sent him an e-mail to see what he's up to.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Reginaldo_Bacchi
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 18, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

After several tries finally with the help of Neil I managed to re register.

I entered into this site before the magic 1 million viewers figure.

Yes, I am the person Neil and Mike have written about. I worked at ENGESA from 1977 until the bitter end.

This question of the NIMDA purchase of those Cascavels is very strange and up to now I coudn't find any more news about it.

Doug Kibbey wrote: "... Bummer. Proabably goes a long way toward explaining those M60A3's they picked up in a garage sale from the U.S...(instead of making their own, or modifying Leopards as had been done some in the past...)"

Doug, your aproach is completely wrong. The M60s were offered by the US Government (I don't know through what agency), and they were refused by the Brazilian Army, who had decided to equip the armoured battalions with Leopard 1s, bought from Belgiun.

However our president Mr. Fernando Henrique Cardoso was doing everything to ingratiate itself with the American government, as he wanted the US backing for his desire of having Brasil as a permanent member of the UN security commitee. Therefore he ordered the Army Minister to accept those tanks, which he grudgingly did.

Any other question on ENGESA, please, submit and I will do everything to present a satisfactory answer.

Reg
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:18 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

- Reginaldo_Bacchi

Doug Kibbey wrote: "... Bummer. Proabably goes a long way toward explaining those M60A3's they picked up in a garage sale from the U.S...(instead of making their own, or modifying Leopards as had been done some in the past...)"

Doug, your aproach is completely wrong. The M60s were offered by the US Government (I don't know through what agency), and they were refused by the Brazilian Army, who had decided to equip the armoured battalions with Leopard 1s, bought from Belgiun.

However our president Mr. Fernando Henrique Cardoso was doing everything to ingratiate itself with the American government, as he wanted the US backing for his desire of having Brasil as a permanent member of the UN security commitee. Therefore he ordered the Army Minister to accept those tanks, which he grudgingly did.

Reg

Reg,
Chill out, Dude...it was just an expression meaning no offense. And quite apart from that, at least one cavalry regimental commander expressed to me personally that he considered it the best available option bringing with it several capabilities that the armored cavalry would not otherwise have had. This might have annoyed some, but I'd call that a pretty good testimonial from an "end-user" that had no reason whatsoever to feel the need to placate little ol' me.

Regards,
Doug
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
GeorgJ
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:19 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

Hi All,
Hi Doug! Hi Reginaldo! Doug, Reginaldo meant no offense. Interestingly enough, some of the M-60's Brasil recieved were from the New Jersey National Guard, at Ft. Drum!
Anyway, my understanding of Engesa's demise went something like this: the Saudis contacted Engesa about building an MBT in the 40-ton range (along the lines of the AMX-40). The design was kept light in order to tranverse the deserts in Saudi Arabia, which are mainly sand (as opposed to rock). Engesa went out on a limb and stretched itself financially to pull it off and managed to do so. However, the US got wind of the deal and didn't like the idea of Brasil cutting into its arms business and its "selling to the highest bidder" policy (with no politcal strings attached, unlike U.S. arms deals). When the Engesa team arrived, the found the U.S., English and German M1's, Challengers and Leopards, respectively, waiting for them. The Osorio may have been equally capable as the other vehicles, but came up short on armor. This effectively ended the Osorio's life and was the beginning of the end for Engesa. The Brasilian government tested the Osorio, but ended up not adopting it; why, I don't know (possibly on the grounds of cost). Am I totally off base on this Reginaldo?
Regards,
Georg
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum