±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 224
Total: 224
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Home
04: Photo Gallery
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Member Screenshots
09: Member Screenshots
10: News
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Downloads
14: Home
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Your Account
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Home
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Home
30: Home
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Photo Gallery
44: Downloads
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: Photo Gallery
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: Photo Gallery
56: Home
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: News Archive
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Your Account
66: Community Forums
67: Member Screenshots
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Downloads
75: Member Screenshots
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Downloads
79: Home
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Member Screenshots
85: Home
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Home
90: Community Forums
91: Downloads
92: Community Forums
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Home
101: Home
102: Home
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Home
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Home
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Downloads
113: Home
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Home
118: Photo Gallery
119: Home
120: Member Screenshots
121: Member Screenshots
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Photo Gallery
125: Member Screenshots
126: Downloads
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Home
130: Home
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: News
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Home
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Home
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Photo Gallery
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Member Screenshots
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: Home
162: Downloads
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Home
171: News Archive
172: Home
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Downloads
178: Home
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Downloads
183: Home
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Photo Gallery
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Downloads
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Community Forums
199: Member Screenshots
200: Home
201: Home
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Home
207: Home
208: Member Screenshots
209: News
210: Home
211: Home
212: Home
213: Downloads
214: Home
215: Home
216: Home
217: Home
218: Downloads
219: Community Forums
220: News Archive
221: Tell a Friend
222: Home
223: Home
224: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Kerry_Brunner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:57 pm
Post subject: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

I'm looking for photos and/or drawings of the Canadian Autocar MG Carrier used by the CEF during WWI. Can anyone help?

Kerry

nailcreek @ hotmail.com
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:51 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

The armoured Autocar was used by the 1st Canadian Motor Machine-gun Brigade. The unit had its first parade on the 2nd of Sept, 1914, making it the first armoured unit in the British Commonwealth. The following is from the book ‘Worthy� by LarryWorthington:

“The 1st Canadian Motor Machine-Gun Brigade was the brilliant brain-child of Raymond Brutinel, a former French Army officer. It was believed he had been one of those persecuted during the Dreyfus case, and had left France in consequence. An engineer, he was living in Canada at the outbreak of war and conceived the idea of creating a mobile force having armoured protection. It was a revolutionary idea, but he managed to raise money privately, Sir Clifford Sifton and Sir John Eaton being among those who contributed substantially.

“The Minister of Defence having approved the force, Brutinel went to the United States and bought a number of delivery trucks called Autocars, quantities of light armour plate from Bethlehem Steel, and machine-guns from the Colt factory at Hartford, Connecticut. It was illegal to ship arms to Canada, and Germans working in the factory did their best to prevent it. But in spite of them, the guns were smuggled out of the factory and across the border, arriving intact at Lansdowne Park in Ottawa where the unit was to assemble.

“Brutinel then advertised for recruits for an armoured automobile brigade, and flocking to enlist were mining men from the North Country, who could turn a hand to anything. (Among them was Fred Thompson of Haileybury, who had fought in the Honduras Navy six years before.)

“With Major Brutinel in command the 1st Canadian Automobile Brigade, four batteries strong, sailed for England December, 1914. The batteries were named for their sponsors: two Sifton, one Eaton and one Borden. Later a fifth was added, the Yukon Battery, recruited in Dawson City and equipped by the famous Yukoner, Joe Boyle. Shortly after arriving in England the name of the unit was changed to the 1st Canadian Motor Machine-Gun Brigade.

“The Brigade went to France in 1915, but armoured cars as fighting machines were useless in trench warfare. The vehicles were nearly scrapped, but Brutinel fought to keep them, using them for supplies and administrative work. Gradually he increased his mechanized transport with lorries.

“Brutinel was a truly brilliant soldier. He introduced the idea of machine-gunners fighting as a unit instead of a gun here and a gun there. He developed a system called "interlocking defensive cross-fire" which was devastating to an enemy. Also, using massed machine-guns, he trained gunners to shoot from a map over the heads of allied troops, like artillery. (indirect fire).

“The doctrines of the 1st Canadian Motors made military history, and the unit was used to demonstrate to the British General Staff what could be done. Before long a Canadian Machine-Gun Corps was authorized with Brutinel, promoted to brigadier general, in command. Later machine-gun battalions were formed.

“The 1st Canadian Motor Machine-Gun Brigade saw considerable action, but it wasn't until March, 1918, that they went into battle in the role in which they were originally conceived.

“On March 21st, under the command of Colonel W. K. Walker, the Motors were ordered to move up to the Somme to support the British 5th Army. The armoured cars were renovated and the Canadians, as a mobile unit, more than justified their existence - fighting a rear-guard action in the March Retreat that defeated the British 5th Army.
“Previously Brutinel had convinced General Currie that there was a definite role for a large completely mechanized force, and this operation confirmed it. The outcome was the formation of a 2nd motor machine-gun brigade and authorization for a mobile formation under the command of Brigadier General Brutinel, named the Canadian Independent Force. Besides the two motor machine-gun brigades (which were actually battalions), the Force comprised one battery of field artillery, one field company of engineers, one battalion of cyclists, and a mortar unit. Motor bikes were used by signallers, despatch riders, and also for reconnaissance.

“The Canadian Independent Force was the first mechanized formation in the Commonwealth armies and a forerunner of the armoured division. They fought their first major engagement on August 8th, 1918, and thereafter saw almost continuous action until the Armistice.�









www.rcaca.org/En/indexLM.asp?ID=20
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:25 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Could this be the first "guntruck"?

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Kerry_Brunner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:55 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Somewhere I seem to recall that there was one in a museum somewhere ... is this true??
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:41 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

There is an armoured Autocar on display in the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa.

www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/cwme.asp
Back to top
View user's profile
Kerry_Brunner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:50 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Thanks ... has anyone ever done a full series of photos and drawings? This one would be a lot of fun to build in 1/35th or 1/16th scale!
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:01 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

The Canadian war diaries from the First World War are on line at Archivianet. Here are the diaries of the Motor MG units:

data4.collectionscanad...ml&r=0&f=S
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:07 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

You can order 1/35 scale drawings from George Bradford on the original AFV News site. It is C-28.

www.afvnews.ca/1-35g.html
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Here is a picture of the CWM's MG carrier at Vimy House back in April 2004.



Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:33 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Here are some photos of the Autocar at the Canadian War museum which I took yesterday. (Note that the white rectangle on the side of the Autocar is just a sign put up by the CWM asking people not to climb on the vehicle.)













Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:39 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/l...ery_e.html

The URL to the CWM posted previously is the generic entry point. This is a more specific, but not much better part of their site.
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Here is an article about the history of the Canada’s first armoured unit.

www.wlu.ca/lcmsds/cmh/...%20War.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile
BruceClark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

FYI
Clive Law of Service Publications recently published a book all about the Autocar, relying heavily on the Worthy's preserved car in CWM. Includes scale drawings:

www.perthmilitarymodel...ow017.html

Cheers!
Bruce
Back to top
View user's profile
Jim_Coles
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

There's also an article with photos and 1:48 plans in AFV News Vol 42-1 (Jan-Apr 2007) which is available as a back copy on George's AFV News site. Note that the list of available issues isn't up to date, but the snailmail and e-mail contact addresses are there.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum