±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 340
Total: 340
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Member Screenshots
05: Home
06: Home
07: Member Screenshots
08: Community Forums
09: Member Screenshots
10: Downloads
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Your Account
14: Community Forums
15: Member Screenshots
16: Member Screenshots
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Member Screenshots
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Your Account
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Member Screenshots
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: News Archive
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Member Screenshots
42: Photo Gallery
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Home
48: Your Account
49: Community Forums
50: Member Screenshots
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Member Screenshots
54: News
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Member Screenshots
60: Member Screenshots
61: News Archive
62: Home
63: Member Screenshots
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Statistics
75: Member Screenshots
76: News Archive
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Member Screenshots
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Your Account
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Member Screenshots
89: Member Screenshots
90: Member Screenshots
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: News Archive
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Member Screenshots
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Home
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Photo Gallery
118: Your Account
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Statistics
125: Community Forums
126: News Archive
127: Community Forums
128: News Archive
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: News Archive
132: Community Forums
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Member Screenshots
140: Community Forums
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: News Archive
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Community Forums
149: Statistics
150: Home
151: Photo Gallery
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Member Screenshots
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Your Account
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Downloads
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Your Account
175: Community Forums
176: Home
177: Community Forums
178: Member Screenshots
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Your Account
185: Downloads
186: Home
187: Member Screenshots
188: Home
189: Member Screenshots
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Home
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: News Archive
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Member Screenshots
201: Home
202: Home
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Community Forums
206: Your Account
207: Member Screenshots
208: News Archive
209: Community Forums
210: Downloads
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Home
217: Your Account
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Home
222: Member Screenshots
223: Home
224: Community Forums
225: Member Screenshots
226: Member Screenshots
227: Community Forums
228: Home
229: Your Account
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Member Screenshots
233: Home
234: Home
235: News Archive
236: Home
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: Downloads
240: News Archive
241: Member Screenshots
242: News Archive
243: Member Screenshots
244: News Archive
245: Community Forums
246: Photo Gallery
247: Community Forums
248: Home
249: Member Screenshots
250: News Archive
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: News Archive
254: News Archive
255: Community Forums
256: Member Screenshots
257: Home
258: News Archive
259: Photo Gallery
260: Community Forums
261: News Archive
262: Downloads
263: Community Forums
264: Member Screenshots
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Home
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Member Screenshots
272: Photo Gallery
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Member Screenshots
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Home
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Home
283: Community Forums
284: Your Account
285: Community Forums
286: Home
287: Statistics
288: Member Screenshots
289: Downloads
290: Photo Gallery
291: News
292: Home
293: Member Screenshots
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Home
298: Home
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Your Account
304: Home
305: Community Forums
306: Member Screenshots
307: Member Screenshots
308: Home
309: Community Forums
310: Member Screenshots
311: Home
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Member Screenshots
315: Member Screenshots
316: Community Forums
317: Member Screenshots
318: Community Forums
319: Home
320: Home
321: News Archive
322: Community Forums
323: Downloads
324: Home
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: News Archive
330: Photo Gallery
331: Your Account
332: News Archive
333: Photo Gallery
334: Member Screenshots
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: News
339: Home
340: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Kerry_Brunner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:57 pm
Post subject: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

I'm looking for photos and/or drawings of the Canadian Autocar MG Carrier used by the CEF during WWI. Can anyone help?

Kerry

nailcreek @ hotmail.com
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:51 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

The armoured Autocar was used by the 1st Canadian Motor Machine-gun Brigade. The unit had its first parade on the 2nd of Sept, 1914, making it the first armoured unit in the British Commonwealth. The following is from the book ‘Worthy� by LarryWorthington:

“The 1st Canadian Motor Machine-Gun Brigade was the brilliant brain-child of Raymond Brutinel, a former French Army officer. It was believed he had been one of those persecuted during the Dreyfus case, and had left France in consequence. An engineer, he was living in Canada at the outbreak of war and conceived the idea of creating a mobile force having armoured protection. It was a revolutionary idea, but he managed to raise money privately, Sir Clifford Sifton and Sir John Eaton being among those who contributed substantially.

“The Minister of Defence having approved the force, Brutinel went to the United States and bought a number of delivery trucks called Autocars, quantities of light armour plate from Bethlehem Steel, and machine-guns from the Colt factory at Hartford, Connecticut. It was illegal to ship arms to Canada, and Germans working in the factory did their best to prevent it. But in spite of them, the guns were smuggled out of the factory and across the border, arriving intact at Lansdowne Park in Ottawa where the unit was to assemble.

“Brutinel then advertised for recruits for an armoured automobile brigade, and flocking to enlist were mining men from the North Country, who could turn a hand to anything. (Among them was Fred Thompson of Haileybury, who had fought in the Honduras Navy six years before.)

“With Major Brutinel in command the 1st Canadian Automobile Brigade, four batteries strong, sailed for England December, 1914. The batteries were named for their sponsors: two Sifton, one Eaton and one Borden. Later a fifth was added, the Yukon Battery, recruited in Dawson City and equipped by the famous Yukoner, Joe Boyle. Shortly after arriving in England the name of the unit was changed to the 1st Canadian Motor Machine-Gun Brigade.

“The Brigade went to France in 1915, but armoured cars as fighting machines were useless in trench warfare. The vehicles were nearly scrapped, but Brutinel fought to keep them, using them for supplies and administrative work. Gradually he increased his mechanized transport with lorries.

“Brutinel was a truly brilliant soldier. He introduced the idea of machine-gunners fighting as a unit instead of a gun here and a gun there. He developed a system called "interlocking defensive cross-fire" which was devastating to an enemy. Also, using massed machine-guns, he trained gunners to shoot from a map over the heads of allied troops, like artillery. (indirect fire).

“The doctrines of the 1st Canadian Motors made military history, and the unit was used to demonstrate to the British General Staff what could be done. Before long a Canadian Machine-Gun Corps was authorized with Brutinel, promoted to brigadier general, in command. Later machine-gun battalions were formed.

“The 1st Canadian Motor Machine-Gun Brigade saw considerable action, but it wasn't until March, 1918, that they went into battle in the role in which they were originally conceived.

“On March 21st, under the command of Colonel W. K. Walker, the Motors were ordered to move up to the Somme to support the British 5th Army. The armoured cars were renovated and the Canadians, as a mobile unit, more than justified their existence - fighting a rear-guard action in the March Retreat that defeated the British 5th Army.
“Previously Brutinel had convinced General Currie that there was a definite role for a large completely mechanized force, and this operation confirmed it. The outcome was the formation of a 2nd motor machine-gun brigade and authorization for a mobile formation under the command of Brigadier General Brutinel, named the Canadian Independent Force. Besides the two motor machine-gun brigades (which were actually battalions), the Force comprised one battery of field artillery, one field company of engineers, one battalion of cyclists, and a mortar unit. Motor bikes were used by signallers, despatch riders, and also for reconnaissance.

“The Canadian Independent Force was the first mechanized formation in the Commonwealth armies and a forerunner of the armoured division. They fought their first major engagement on August 8th, 1918, and thereafter saw almost continuous action until the Armistice.�









www.rcaca.org/En/indexLM.asp?ID=20
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:25 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Could this be the first "guntruck"?

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Kerry_Brunner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:55 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Somewhere I seem to recall that there was one in a museum somewhere ... is this true??
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:41 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

There is an armoured Autocar on display in the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa.

www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/cwme.asp
Back to top
View user's profile
Kerry_Brunner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:50 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Thanks ... has anyone ever done a full series of photos and drawings? This one would be a lot of fun to build in 1/35th or 1/16th scale!
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:01 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

The Canadian war diaries from the First World War are on line at Archivianet. Here are the diaries of the Motor MG units:

data4.collectionscanad...ml&r=0&f=S
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:07 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

You can order 1/35 scale drawings from George Bradford on the original AFV News site. It is C-28.

www.afvnews.ca/1-35g.html
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Here is a picture of the CWM's MG carrier at Vimy House back in April 2004.



Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:33 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Here are some photos of the Autocar at the Canadian War museum which I took yesterday. (Note that the white rectangle on the side of the Autocar is just a sign put up by the CWM asking people not to climb on the vehicle.)













Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:39 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/l...ery_e.html

The URL to the CWM posted previously is the generic entry point. This is a more specific, but not much better part of their site.
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Here is an article about the history of the Canada’s first armoured unit.

www.wlu.ca/lcmsds/cmh/...%20War.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile
BruceClark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

FYI
Clive Law of Service Publications recently published a book all about the Autocar, relying heavily on the Worthy's preserved car in CWM. Includes scale drawings:

www.perthmilitarymodel...ow017.html

Cheers!
Bruce
Back to top
View user's profile
Jim_Coles
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

There's also an article with photos and 1:48 plans in AFV News Vol 42-1 (Jan-Apr 2007) which is available as a back copy on George's AFV News site. Note that the list of available issues isn't up to date, but the snailmail and e-mail contact addresses are there.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum