±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 329
Total: 329
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Home
06: Downloads
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Member Screenshots
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Downloads
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Home
19: Home
20: Home
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: News
25: Home
26: Community Forums
27: Downloads
28: News Archive
29: Home
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Downloads
37: Home
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Photo Gallery
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Home
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: Member Screenshots
52: Photo Gallery
53: Member Screenshots
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: News Archive
58: Home
59: Home
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Your Account
65: Community Forums
66: Photo Gallery
67: Downloads
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Home
71: Home
72: Downloads
73: Community Forums
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Downloads
77: Home
78: Downloads
79: Community Forums
80: Home
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Statistics
89: Community Forums
90: Home
91: Photo Gallery
92: Home
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: News
96: Community Forums
97: Downloads
98: News Archive
99: Home
100: Home
101: Home
102: Home
103: Home
104: Downloads
105: News Archive
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Your Account
109: Photo Gallery
110: Home
111: Home
112: Home
113: Member Screenshots
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Home
126: Downloads
127: News
128: Home
129: Home
130: Home
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Home
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Home
154: Member Screenshots
155: Photo Gallery
156: Photo Gallery
157: Home
158: Member Screenshots
159: Home
160: Statistics
161: Home
162: Home
163: Home
164: Home
165: Member Screenshots
166: Home
167: Home
168: Home
169: Member Screenshots
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Photo Gallery
178: Home
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Photo Gallery
183: Photo Gallery
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Home
190: Downloads
191: Home
192: Home
193: Home
194: Tell a Friend
195: Home
196: Home
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Your Account
200: Community Forums
201: Downloads
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Home
207: Home
208: Home
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Home
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Photo Gallery
219: Home
220: Home
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Downloads
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Home
229: Member Screenshots
230: Community Forums
231: Photo Gallery
232: Home
233: Home
234: Member Screenshots
235: Home
236: Community Forums
237: Downloads
238: Your Account
239: Community Forums
240: Home
241: Photo Gallery
242: Home
243: Home
244: Home
245: Home
246: Downloads
247: Member Screenshots
248: Statistics
249: Community Forums
250: Downloads
251: Home
252: Member Screenshots
253: Community Forums
254: Photo Gallery
255: Home
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Home
259: Photo Gallery
260: Home
261: Photo Gallery
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Home
268: Community Forums
269: Photo Gallery
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: Statistics
285: Home
286: Statistics
287: Member Screenshots
288: Photo Gallery
289: Home
290: Member Screenshots
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Home
294: Home
295: Home
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Photo Gallery
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Photo Gallery
305: Home
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Home
309: Photo Gallery
310: Community Forums
311: Downloads
312: Community Forums
313: News Archive
314: Community Forums
315: Home
316: Community Forums
317: Member Screenshots
318: Member Screenshots
319: Home
320: Home
321: Home
322: Home
323: Home
324: Photo Gallery
325: Statistics
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
3 churchills
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:46 am
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- L.Delsing
Hello Jinx,
Were is this Conqueror (and Cent in the background) located??

Regards,
Lesley



I am sorry, i have absolutely no idea. The website -

home.freeuk.net/armour.../fv214.htm

- just has the photos, and no information.

There is a second page -

home.freeuk.net/armour...fv214a.htm

- that shows some close-ups, including of the suspension.

(Main page = www.armourinfocus.co.uk/indexfb.htm )

Maybe someone else will recognize this museum.....?
Back to top
View user's profile
palic
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:04 am
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Well, I think the number and the size of Churchill wheels is somehow connected with its ability to survive after mineblast damage... The track is really thick and when blasted off one "bogie" could be changed and till that moment tank is able to move forward without any special problems.
The configuration of Churchill - I mean these side sponsons provides extra space to relatively narrow hull
To the question on location of Centurion and Conqueror - this seems to be located somewhere at the milbase doesn't it (wire fence + Concertina wire)? May these tanks be gatekeepers?
I can remember Chieftain in Aldershot for example..
The pics of Conqueror driven through muddy terrain were taken in Duxford IWM I am sure, so could these gatekeepers be located there (not at the main entrance to the museum)? Maybe they were taken at the "backyard" gate of IWM Duxford?
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Thanks!
Wild guess, maybe the gateguards are in the Salisbury plain area.

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:13 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

In the third picture on the second page ( home.freeuk.net/armour...fv214a.htm ) a traffic sign is visible through the tracks of the tank. It is too blurry to read, but maybe someone can recognize the layout/nationality?

Another sign is visible in the sixth picture. Can't read it, but it looks military.

And the surrounding countryside looks British to me. Salisbury is definitely a possibility.

Guesses?
Back to top
View user's profile
T13b1(be)
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 02, 2006
Posts: 24
Location: belgium
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:57 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

In fact the conqueror is a gatekeeper at RAC ranges at Castlemartin in Wales. The tanks hull number is either 41ba03 or 41ba22. All of it depends when the picture was taken because the conqueror was replaced by the second ( which was saved from the shootingrange ) . The first is again put back in running condition.
I have found this in the book " conqueror " by Rob griffin ( ISBN 1- 86126-251-5)
regards
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:09 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

In the past (1999) we sometimes go there for gunnery training. At the entrance of Merrion camp there were also a Churchill and a Leopard 1.

Are these still there?

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
T13b1(be)
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 02, 2006
Posts: 24
Location: belgium
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:22 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Sorry, all the info I have comes from this book where I had seen the photo so I can't tell any more about the site.
Regards
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Mystery solved.

The first set of photos were taken at RAF Duxford (where they also have a Conqueror ARV).

The gate guardians - Conqueror and Centurion - are at the main entrance to the Castlemartin Range in Pembrokeshire, Wales. The road running by the gate is the B4319.

(I e-mailed the webmaster of the site where i found the photos. Since all photos were taken by him or his father, i think this information passes the reliability test.)
Back to top
View user's profile
palic
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:09 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Bull's-eye!!!
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:18 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- T13b1(be)
In fact the conqueror is a gatekeeper at RAC ranges at Castlemartin in Wales. The tanks hull number is either 41ba03 or 41ba22. All of it depends when the picture was taken because the conqueror was replaced by the second ( which was saved from the shootingrange ) . The first is again put back in running condition.
I have found this in the book " conqueror " by Rob griffin ( ISBN 1- 86126-251-5)
regards


I believe Rob Griffin was a semi regular contributer to the 'old' discussion group, does anyone know if he made the move or is he AWOL?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:58 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- Jinx
- bsmart
The Churchill was the last in the line of 'Shelled Ground Tanks' which goes back to the original Heavy Tanks of WWI. The long track length was meant to give it a good trench crossing ability combined with the ability to support infantry assaults across heavily shelled ground.



Well, i guess in the Churchill's case, any suspension is preferable to no suspension.


The larger wheels and longer travel suspension systems used by other tanks in WWII, Whether it was torsion bar, Christie, Volute spring suspension or some other were needed on those tanks because of the higher speed of the modern 'cruiser' tanks. The Churchill wasn't fast (neither was its ancester the Matilda) It's max speed was 15 MPH with a crosscountry speed of about 8 MPH. At those speeds it didn't need a complex suspension.



Soooo.....since it was never intended to go fast, they designed it so that it couldn't go fast? (I wonder how many committees it took to come up with that plan.....?)


The Centurian was the first of a new line of 'Universal Tanks' that combined both the Infantry and Crusier tank line. I never thought the Conquerer had that small of wheels. And it did have a torsion bar suspension. The Churchill had small individual coil springs at each wheel station.



The following webpage has six photos of Conquerors. Maybe it's because it is so large a tank, but those wheels do look rather small to me.

home.freeuk.net/armour.../fv214.htm

But maybe it's just me.


I am leaving on a trip early in the morning so I'll be out of touch for a week. So if I don't respond to a thread you'll know why.



I hope you have a good trip!


Back from the trip, flew to Las Vegas (Didn't win big enough to retire or buy a tank museum) Went to the Grand Canyon and a couple other tourist sites, flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.

About the 'Since it wasn't supposed to go fast they made a suspension that couldn't go fast' idea. (since I don't want to try and figure how to interject replies with quotes)

I look at it differently. Any design is a balancing act. High speed suspensions are more complex (and there for harder and more expensive to produce) so if a vehicle will not need the capability why design it in? Once the design criteria for the Churchill was set the design team created a vehicle that met those criteria and did so in the most efficient manner. I have also assumed that production resource availability played some part in the design (after all it used commercial Bedford bus engines) and the smaller springs were probably easier to produce or more readily available than were the larger higher capacity springs needed for Christie suspensions (The high speed suspension used in the cruiser tanks of the same era)

I sometimes think that when we look back at the WWII era not enough emphasis is put on the production and logistical factors that played into the decision of creating the weapon systems of the time. Many look at the individual tanks and make statements such as 'The U.S. couldn't build a tank to compete with the German Tiger or Panther' or they give a condescending smirk about the Grant/Lee because it had the main gun in the hull.

What these narrow views don't take into consideration was the intense competition between competing priorities that the planners of all nations faced. What good does it do to build a fleet of heavy tanks that can take on anything in the world if there isn't enough shipping to get it to the battle zone. Or if there aren't enough escort ships to keep the transports from getting sunk enroute. So decisions are made based on assumptions and capabilities that ned up affecting battles that take place months or even years later. It is easy to look back and say 'The U.S. should have fielded a heavy tank with a high velocity 90mm gun' when looking ath the campaign in Northwest Europe in hindsight. But when planners were looking ahead in early to mid 1942 and seeing ships being sunk faster than they could be replaced in the North Atlantic, or seeing the Naval casualties in the Pacific it was more important that a balanced production system be implemented. This sometimes meant that equipment that was 'adequate' instead of 'optimal' was provided.

And yes there were mistakes made. Did we need all the Battleships and Aircraft Carriers that were built? What about the thousands of aircraft and tanks that were declared surplus without ever being issued out of the depots? The counterpoint was the ammunition shortage of late 1944 caused in part when Congressional pressure at seeing how much 'wastage' there was sitting in dumps when the North Africa Campaign was over caused production to be cut back in late '43/ early '44 only to find the pipeline emptied out once the Campaign through France and the Pacific campaign got rolling in high gear in mid'44

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:32 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- bsmart

flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.



Bob,
Somehow, I'd imagined that you were a lot older. Laughing

...know what you mean, though...some of those full flights make me want to scream too.

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- Doug_Kibbey
- bsmart

flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.



Bob,
Somehow, I'd imagined that you were a lot older. lol

...know what you mean, though...some of those full flights make me want to scream too.

chug
Very Funny. No he was in the seat in front of me and everytime he kicked the tray table flopped down (Note to self carry a roll of duct tape when travelling. can be used to hold tray table in place or restrain/silence other passengers)

Is duct tape on the 'restricted items list?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:07 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- bsmart
- Doug_Kibbey
- bsmart

flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.



Bob,
Somehow, I'd imagined that you were a lot older. lol

...know what you mean, though...some of those full flights make me want to scream too.

chug
Very Funny. No he was in the seat in front of me and everytime he kicked the tray table flopped down (Note to self carry a roll of duct tape when travelling. can be used to hold tray table in place or restrain/silence other passengers)

Is duct tape on the 'restricted items list?


If it is, it shouldn't be. Makes you wonder about a lenth of wire and two short sticks, in those cases where the parents make NO attempt to manage the child.... Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
jch_in_uk
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

"pretty rare early Churchill Mk.I (A 22) probably?? with 40 mm gun turret mounted and 76,2 mm hull mounted howitzer"


I think this vehicle is the one that used to reside in the children play area at the old Museum of Army Transport in Beverley. It was in a bit of a state in those days and I'm not sure how original it is.

JH
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum