±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 458
Total: 458
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Member Screenshots
06: News Archive
07: Community Forums
08: Member Screenshots
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: News Archive
14: Home
15: Member Screenshots
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Home
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Photo Gallery
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Photo Gallery
30: Community Forums
31: Member Screenshots
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Member Screenshots
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Home
42: Photo Gallery
43: Home
44: Home
45: Member Screenshots
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Photo Gallery
49: Photo Gallery
50: Home
51: Home
52: Photo Gallery
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Home
57: Home
58: Photo Gallery
59: Community Forums
60: Downloads
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Photo Gallery
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Downloads
72: Member Screenshots
73: Community Forums
74: Home
75: Member Screenshots
76: Community Forums
77: Downloads
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Downloads
85: Photo Gallery
86: Home
87: Member Screenshots
88: Member Screenshots
89: Community Forums
90: Member Screenshots
91: Photo Gallery
92: Community Forums
93: News Archive
94: Photo Gallery
95: Downloads
96: Downloads
97: Member Screenshots
98: Downloads
99: News Archive
100: Home
101: Home
102: Community Forums
103: Member Screenshots
104: Your Account
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Home
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Home
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Home
116: Home
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Home
126: Home
127: Downloads
128: Home
129: News Archive
130: Home
131: Photo Gallery
132: Photo Gallery
133: Home
134: Member Screenshots
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Home
140: Statistics
141: Home
142: Member Screenshots
143: Member Screenshots
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Downloads
147: Downloads
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Photo Gallery
153: Home
154: News Archive
155: Downloads
156: Downloads
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Member Screenshots
160: Community Forums
161: Photo Gallery
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Home
175: Home
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Home
179: Home
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: News Archive
187: Member Screenshots
188: Home
189: Member Screenshots
190: Community Forums
191: Photo Gallery
192: Photo Gallery
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Home
197: News Archive
198: Home
199: Community Forums
200: Member Screenshots
201: Member Screenshots
202: Downloads
203: Member Screenshots
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Home
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Home
210: Home
211: Member Screenshots
212: Community Forums
213: News
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: Home
217: Community Forums
218: Photo Gallery
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Home
222: Home
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: Home
226: Member Screenshots
227: Statistics
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Home
233: Community Forums
234: Member Screenshots
235: Community Forums
236: Member Screenshots
237: Community Forums
238: Photo Gallery
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Photo Gallery
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Home
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Member Screenshots
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Home
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Home
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Downloads
259: Member Screenshots
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Member Screenshots
264: Community Forums
265: Photo Gallery
266: Community Forums
267: Member Screenshots
268: Community Forums
269: Home
270: Statistics
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: News Archive
281: Member Screenshots
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Member Screenshots
285: Community Forums
286: Downloads
287: Community Forums
288: Home
289: Home
290: Home
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Photo Gallery
294: Community Forums
295: Home
296: Home
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: Home
300: Member Screenshots
301: Home
302: Community Forums
303: Photo Gallery
304: Community Forums
305: Home
306: Community Forums
307: Home
308: Downloads
309: Community Forums
310: Photo Gallery
311: Photo Gallery
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Community Forums
315: News Archive
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Home
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Member Screenshots
323: Community Forums
324: Home
325: Home
326: Home
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Photo Gallery
330: Downloads
331: Member Screenshots
332: Home
333: Photo Gallery
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Photo Gallery
338: Community Forums
339: Home
340: Home
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Home
344: Photo Gallery
345: Home
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Community Forums
350: Home
351: Member Screenshots
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Photo Gallery
356: Member Screenshots
357: Home
358: Member Screenshots
359: Your Account
360: Member Screenshots
361: Community Forums
362: Home
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Member Screenshots
366: Community Forums
367: Home
368: Home
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Home
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Downloads
375: Member Screenshots
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Photo Gallery
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Downloads
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Downloads
385: Home
386: Home
387: Downloads
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: News Archive
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Member Screenshots
394: Member Screenshots
395: Community Forums
396: News Archive
397: Member Screenshots
398: Your Account
399: Member Screenshots
400: Community Forums
401: Member Screenshots
402: Home
403: Photo Gallery
404: News
405: Community Forums
406: Member Screenshots
407: Your Account
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Downloads
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Photo Gallery
420: Home
421: Member Screenshots
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Photo Gallery
425: Member Screenshots
426: Community Forums
427: Home
428: Home
429: Community Forums
430: Home
431: Community Forums
432: Member Screenshots
433: Community Forums
434: Photo Gallery
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Member Screenshots
443: Community Forums
444: Member Screenshots
445: Home
446: Community Forums
447: Member Screenshots
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Photo Gallery
452: Home
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: News Archive
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jtrowbridge5
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:41 am
Post subject: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

more photos from bovington

cheers dennis

community.webshots.com...wbridge555
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:27 am
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

Dennis

Thanks for the new photos. Excellent as always.

On the StuG, an interesting detail, is the deflection plate for the Drivers vision port. I had never noticed the before.

Of the two StuGs and one StuH42 here at the Patton, that deflection plate (bracket) is not present.

Would that have been a localized application to protect the driver ?

Interesting,
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:48 am
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

Don,
I think that modification to the driver's visor is something that was done by the Finns to all of the StuG's that were supplied to them.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:41 pm
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

Dennis, ditto thanks for the pics.

Hey Don, Gary,
This Type 69 seems to have similar "plumbing" to the Patton Museum's T-72? Remind me what that was for?



community.webshots.com...611PnqHDx#

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:43 pm
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

Calvin & Hobbs fan here Wink



community.webshots.com...611KYjoMT#

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:31 pm
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

- Neil_Baumgardner
Dennis, ditto thanks for the pics.

Hey Don, Gary,
This Type 69 seems to have similar "plumbing" to the Patton Museum's T-72? Remind me what that was for?



community.webshots.com...611PnqHDx#

Neil


I believe I read it was vented from the exhaust to stir up dust, creating a natural smoke screen. I don't know if it was more successful when the vehicle was retreating in reverse. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:39 pm
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

It was infact a field fabrication for screening (blowing up sand in front of the vehicle) and it helped 'de-thermalize' the tanks image.

The hot exhaust would alter the thermal image of the vehicle. A desperate attempt at survival, but actually quite ingenious.

...back in the day, Rolling Eyes ... I used to fire all my gunneries using both sights. Not common amoung tank gunners, but I was shown how to do it by one of my NCO's. It allowed me to see both images and to instantly aquire/fire with the better sight picture.

The so called 'super-imposing' technique was misapplied by many of my peers and caused negative results. One had to remember that the technique was 'super-imposed & reticle off set'.

I had to shoot a number of gunneries in exterme heat/ dusty conditions with range fires, so the application of both sights enabled me to aquire and engage targets quickly under unusual conditions.

Don

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:44 pm
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

That's it. Much better explanation. I wonder how well it worked in practice. Don, do you know of any ODS vets that engaged such equiped tanks? Did the thermal image created by the dust completely mask the tank or would there be a hotter spot where the tank is? It would seem that seeing a thermal dust blob approaching, the gunner would fire at the center of the mass thus hitting the target.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:05 pm
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

In the early 90's Iraqi doctrine was severaly limited in there battle manuever when fighting from the defense.

The 'mobile defense' was a series of shoot and withdrawls (from unprepared positions) followed by a 'die-in-place' position.

The 'Static Defense' was dig deep, camoflauge, and 'die-in-place'. (no withdrawl or independant survival action.

Deviating from these was (supposedly) a penality of death for the crew.

The exhaust modifications would not be too practical in an offensive engagement. (Tank crew can't see where the hell their going, and the gunner damn sure can't see through the cloud infront of his sights...)

I would believe that this was strictly a defensive survival modification, or perhaps to add in screening the vehicle as it withdrawls ( ala 'mobile defense').

So, with the perspective of a tank crewman, and with a bit of understanding of the Iraqi battle tactics, it would only be for defense.

I may be flawed in my understanding of the modification, but after seeing it first hand, its my best guess...

As for ODS vets,....nothing. Of all the firsthand accounts, I've never heard of this 'variant' ever being engaged. Its possible some may have been, but I haven't heard of any.

Remember,...If it is intact,....then it was captured abandoned.

All opposition was shot up during the advance by air or ground forces.

Sorry for drudging on....
Don

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:42 am
Post subject: Re: panzer3s and foreign tanks at bovington

- Dontos
Dennis

Thanks for the new photos. Excellent as always.

On the StuG, an interesting detail, is the deflection plate for the Drivers vision port. I had never noticed the before.

Of the two StuGs and one StuH42 here at the Patton, that deflection plate (bracket) is not present.

Would that have been a localized application to protect the driver ?

Interesting,
Don


Don,

Check this link for pictures of a Finnish StuG with all the wartime modifications:

www.andreaslarka.net/p...31033.html

The rest of the site is well worth checking out as well, excellent run down of the StuG in Finn service.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum