±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 314
Total: 314
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Downloads
10: Member Screenshots
11: Search
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Home
21: Statistics
22: News
23: Member Screenshots
24: Member Screenshots
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: Photo Gallery
29: Photo Gallery
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: LinkToUs
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Home
41: Home
42: Home
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Home
46: Community Forums
47: News Archive
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: News
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Downloads
55: LinkToUs
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Your Account
59: News Archive
60: Community Forums
61: Supporters
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Photo Gallery
68: Home
69: Member Screenshots
70: Photo Gallery
71: Member Screenshots
72: News
73: Photo Gallery
74: Community Forums
75: Home
76: Home
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Downloads
83: Home
84: Home
85: Home
86: Community Forums
87: Downloads
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Photo Gallery
93: Home
94: Photo Gallery
95: Photo Gallery
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Home
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: Member Screenshots
102: Community Forums
103: Downloads
104: Community Forums
105: News Archive
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Home
109: Home
110: Home
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Photo Gallery
114: Home
115: Member Screenshots
116: Community Forums
117: News
118: Home
119: Member Screenshots
120: Home
121: Photo Gallery
122: Community Forums
123: Photo Gallery
124: LinkToUs
125: Home
126: News
127: Community Forums
128: Statistics
129: Community Forums
130: News Archive
131: Community Forums
132: Member Screenshots
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Photo Gallery
137: Home
138: Photo Gallery
139: Community Forums
140: Home
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Member Screenshots
147: Home
148: Photo Gallery
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: News
152: News Archive
153: Photo Gallery
154: Home
155: News Archive
156: Downloads
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Photo Gallery
161: Community Forums
162: LinkToUs
163: Supporters
164: Home
165: Photo Gallery
166: News
167: Photo Gallery
168: Home
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Home
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Home
177: Community Forums
178: Home
179: News
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: Tell a Friend
183: Photo Gallery
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Home
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Home
191: News
192: Community Forums
193: News
194: Member Screenshots
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Downloads
198: Photo Gallery
199: Home
200: News Archive
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Downloads
208: Downloads
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Member Screenshots
217: Community Forums
218: News
219: News Archive
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: News Archive
225: Home
226: Community Forums
227: News Archive
228: Photo Gallery
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Photo Gallery
234: Home
235: Member Screenshots
236: Member Screenshots
237: Home
238: News
239: News Archive
240: Community Forums
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Photo Gallery
246: Downloads
247: Home
248: Home
249: Home
250: Statistics
251: Contact
252: Community Forums
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Home
256: Contact
257: Member Screenshots
258: Photo Gallery
259: Member Screenshots
260: Home
261: Home
262: Home
263: Photo Gallery
264: Community Forums
265: News
266: Photo Gallery
267: Home
268: Member Screenshots
269: Photo Gallery
270: Community Forums
271: Member Screenshots
272: Community Forums
273: News
274: Contact
275: Photo Gallery
276: Home
277: Statistics
278: Photo Gallery
279: Member Screenshots
280: Member Screenshots
281: Community Forums
282: News
283: Community Forums
284: Statistics
285: Home
286: News
287: Home
288: News
289: News
290: Community Forums
291: Downloads
292: News
293: Community Forums
294: News
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: News Archive
298: Photo Gallery
299: Community Forums
300: LinkToUs
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: News
304: Photo Gallery
305: Photo Gallery
306: News
307: Photo Gallery
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
3 churchills
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:46 am
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- L.Delsing
Hello Jinx,
Were is this Conqueror (and Cent in the background) located??

Regards,
Lesley



I am sorry, i have absolutely no idea. The website -

home.freeuk.net/armour.../fv214.htm

- just has the photos, and no information.

There is a second page -

home.freeuk.net/armour...fv214a.htm

- that shows some close-ups, including of the suspension.

(Main page = www.armourinfocus.co.uk/indexfb.htm )

Maybe someone else will recognize this museum.....?
Back to top
View user's profile
palic
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:04 am
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Well, I think the number and the size of Churchill wheels is somehow connected with its ability to survive after mineblast damage... The track is really thick and when blasted off one "bogie" could be changed and till that moment tank is able to move forward without any special problems.
The configuration of Churchill - I mean these side sponsons provides extra space to relatively narrow hull
To the question on location of Centurion and Conqueror - this seems to be located somewhere at the milbase doesn't it (wire fence + Concertina wire)? May these tanks be gatekeepers?
I can remember Chieftain in Aldershot for example..
The pics of Conqueror driven through muddy terrain were taken in Duxford IWM I am sure, so could these gatekeepers be located there (not at the main entrance to the museum)? Maybe they were taken at the "backyard" gate of IWM Duxford?
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Thanks!
Wild guess, maybe the gateguards are in the Salisbury plain area.

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:13 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

In the third picture on the second page ( home.freeuk.net/armour...fv214a.htm ) a traffic sign is visible through the tracks of the tank. It is too blurry to read, but maybe someone can recognize the layout/nationality?

Another sign is visible in the sixth picture. Can't read it, but it looks military.

And the surrounding countryside looks British to me. Salisbury is definitely a possibility.

Guesses?
Back to top
View user's profile
T13b1(be)
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 02, 2006
Posts: 24
Location: belgium
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:57 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

In fact the conqueror is a gatekeeper at RAC ranges at Castlemartin in Wales. The tanks hull number is either 41ba03 or 41ba22. All of it depends when the picture was taken because the conqueror was replaced by the second ( which was saved from the shootingrange ) . The first is again put back in running condition.
I have found this in the book " conqueror " by Rob griffin ( ISBN 1- 86126-251-5)
regards
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:09 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

In the past (1999) we sometimes go there for gunnery training. At the entrance of Merrion camp there were also a Churchill and a Leopard 1.

Are these still there?

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
T13b1(be)
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 02, 2006
Posts: 24
Location: belgium
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:22 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Sorry, all the info I have comes from this book where I had seen the photo so I can't tell any more about the site.
Regards
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Mystery solved.

The first set of photos were taken at RAF Duxford (where they also have a Conqueror ARV).

The gate guardians - Conqueror and Centurion - are at the main entrance to the Castlemartin Range in Pembrokeshire, Wales. The road running by the gate is the B4319.

(I e-mailed the webmaster of the site where i found the photos. Since all photos were taken by him or his father, i think this information passes the reliability test.)
Back to top
View user's profile
palic
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:09 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Bull's-eye!!!
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:18 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- T13b1(be)
In fact the conqueror is a gatekeeper at RAC ranges at Castlemartin in Wales. The tanks hull number is either 41ba03 or 41ba22. All of it depends when the picture was taken because the conqueror was replaced by the second ( which was saved from the shootingrange ) . The first is again put back in running condition.
I have found this in the book " conqueror " by Rob griffin ( ISBN 1- 86126-251-5)
regards


I believe Rob Griffin was a semi regular contributer to the 'old' discussion group, does anyone know if he made the move or is he AWOL?

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:58 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- Jinx
- bsmart
The Churchill was the last in the line of 'Shelled Ground Tanks' which goes back to the original Heavy Tanks of WWI. The long track length was meant to give it a good trench crossing ability combined with the ability to support infantry assaults across heavily shelled ground.



Well, i guess in the Churchill's case, any suspension is preferable to no suspension.


The larger wheels and longer travel suspension systems used by other tanks in WWII, Whether it was torsion bar, Christie, Volute spring suspension or some other were needed on those tanks because of the higher speed of the modern 'cruiser' tanks. The Churchill wasn't fast (neither was its ancester the Matilda) It's max speed was 15 MPH with a crosscountry speed of about 8 MPH. At those speeds it didn't need a complex suspension.



Soooo.....since it was never intended to go fast, they designed it so that it couldn't go fast? (I wonder how many committees it took to come up with that plan.....?)


The Centurian was the first of a new line of 'Universal Tanks' that combined both the Infantry and Crusier tank line. I never thought the Conquerer had that small of wheels. And it did have a torsion bar suspension. The Churchill had small individual coil springs at each wheel station.



The following webpage has six photos of Conquerors. Maybe it's because it is so large a tank, but those wheels do look rather small to me.

home.freeuk.net/armour.../fv214.htm

But maybe it's just me.


I am leaving on a trip early in the morning so I'll be out of touch for a week. So if I don't respond to a thread you'll know why.



I hope you have a good trip!


Back from the trip, flew to Las Vegas (Didn't win big enough to retire or buy a tank museum) Went to the Grand Canyon and a couple other tourist sites, flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.

About the 'Since it wasn't supposed to go fast they made a suspension that couldn't go fast' idea. (since I don't want to try and figure how to interject replies with quotes)

I look at it differently. Any design is a balancing act. High speed suspensions are more complex (and there for harder and more expensive to produce) so if a vehicle will not need the capability why design it in? Once the design criteria for the Churchill was set the design team created a vehicle that met those criteria and did so in the most efficient manner. I have also assumed that production resource availability played some part in the design (after all it used commercial Bedford bus engines) and the smaller springs were probably easier to produce or more readily available than were the larger higher capacity springs needed for Christie suspensions (The high speed suspension used in the cruiser tanks of the same era)

I sometimes think that when we look back at the WWII era not enough emphasis is put on the production and logistical factors that played into the decision of creating the weapon systems of the time. Many look at the individual tanks and make statements such as 'The U.S. couldn't build a tank to compete with the German Tiger or Panther' or they give a condescending smirk about the Grant/Lee because it had the main gun in the hull.

What these narrow views don't take into consideration was the intense competition between competing priorities that the planners of all nations faced. What good does it do to build a fleet of heavy tanks that can take on anything in the world if there isn't enough shipping to get it to the battle zone. Or if there aren't enough escort ships to keep the transports from getting sunk enroute. So decisions are made based on assumptions and capabilities that ned up affecting battles that take place months or even years later. It is easy to look back and say 'The U.S. should have fielded a heavy tank with a high velocity 90mm gun' when looking ath the campaign in Northwest Europe in hindsight. But when planners were looking ahead in early to mid 1942 and seeing ships being sunk faster than they could be replaced in the North Atlantic, or seeing the Naval casualties in the Pacific it was more important that a balanced production system be implemented. This sometimes meant that equipment that was 'adequate' instead of 'optimal' was provided.

And yes there were mistakes made. Did we need all the Battleships and Aircraft Carriers that were built? What about the thousands of aircraft and tanks that were declared surplus without ever being issued out of the depots? The counterpoint was the ammunition shortage of late 1944 caused in part when Congressional pressure at seeing how much 'wastage' there was sitting in dumps when the North Africa Campaign was over caused production to be cut back in late '43/ early '44 only to find the pipeline emptied out once the Campaign through France and the Pacific campaign got rolling in high gear in mid'44

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:32 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- bsmart

flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.



Bob,
Somehow, I'd imagined that you were a lot older. Laughing

...know what you mean, though...some of those full flights make me want to scream too.

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- Doug_Kibbey
- bsmart

flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.



Bob,
Somehow, I'd imagined that you were a lot older. lol

...know what you mean, though...some of those full flights make me want to scream too.

chug
Very Funny. No he was in the seat in front of me and everytime he kicked the tray table flopped down (Note to self carry a roll of duct tape when travelling. can be used to hold tray table in place or restrain/silence other passengers)

Is duct tape on the 'restricted items list?

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:07 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- bsmart
- Doug_Kibbey
- bsmart

flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.



Bob,
Somehow, I'd imagined that you were a lot older. lol

...know what you mean, though...some of those full flights make me want to scream too.

chug
Very Funny. No he was in the seat in front of me and everytime he kicked the tray table flopped down (Note to self carry a roll of duct tape when travelling. can be used to hold tray table in place or restrain/silence other passengers)

Is duct tape on the 'restricted items list?


If it is, it shouldn't be. Makes you wonder about a lenth of wire and two short sticks, in those cases where the parents make NO attempt to manage the child.... Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
jch_in_uk
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

"pretty rare early Churchill Mk.I (A 22) probably?? with 40 mm gun turret mounted and 76,2 mm hull mounted howitzer"


I think this vehicle is the one that used to reside in the children play area at the old Museum of Army Transport in Beverley. It was in a bit of a state in those days and I'm not sure how original it is.

JH
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum