±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 1
Visitors: 466
Total: 467
Who Is Where:
 Members:
01: JWB2 > Community Forums
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Downloads
04: Downloads
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Home
13: Home
14: Member Screenshots
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Member Screenshots
23: Photo Gallery
24: Member Screenshots
25: Home
26: Photo Gallery
27: Member Screenshots
28: Home
29: Home
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Downloads
35: Photo Gallery
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Home
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Home
50: Home
51: Downloads
52: Downloads
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Home
57: Home
58: Member Screenshots
59: Photo Gallery
60: Home
61: Community Forums
62: Member Screenshots
63: Home
64: Home
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Home
69: Home
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Photo Gallery
78: Photo Gallery
79: Member Screenshots
80: Photo Gallery
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Home
85: Home
86: Downloads
87: Home
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Home
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Home
96: Photo Gallery
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Member Screenshots
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Home
109: Downloads
110: Home
111: Home
112: Photo Gallery
113: Home
114: Community Forums
115: Home
116: Home
117: Home
118: Home
119: Home
120: Photo Gallery
121: Community Forums
122: News Archive
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Member Screenshots
126: Community Forums
127: Photo Gallery
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Home
131: Home
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Downloads
140: Home
141: Home
142: Home
143: Home
144: Home
145: Member Screenshots
146: Home
147: Home
148: Photo Gallery
149: Community Forums
150: Downloads
151: Statistics
152: Home
153: Home
154: Photo Gallery
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: Home
158: Home
159: Member Screenshots
160: Community Forums
161: Downloads
162: Home
163: Downloads
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Home
168: Home
169: Member Screenshots
170: Home
171: Home
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: News Archive
175: Member Screenshots
176: Home
177: Photo Gallery
178: Home
179: Home
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Home
190: Photo Gallery
191: Member Screenshots
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Home
197: Photo Gallery
198: Home
199: Member Screenshots
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Home
203: Home
204: Home
205: Home
206: Downloads
207: Home
208: Home
209: Downloads
210: Home
211: Photo Gallery
212: Home
213: Photo Gallery
214: Home
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: Photo Gallery
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Home
222: Member Screenshots
223: Member Screenshots
224: Home
225: Home
226: Photo Gallery
227: Home
228: Home
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Home
233: Home
234: Photo Gallery
235: Downloads
236: Home
237: Member Screenshots
238: Downloads
239: Home
240: Community Forums
241: Home
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Home
246: Home
247: Home
248: Downloads
249: Home
250: Community Forums
251: Member Screenshots
252: Home
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Downloads
256: Photo Gallery
257: Community Forums
258: Home
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Member Screenshots
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Downloads
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Downloads
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: News Archive
273: Home
274: Home
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: Home
278: Community Forums
279: Home
280: Home
281: Home
282: Home
283: Home
284: Home
285: Community Forums
286: Home
287: Downloads
288: Home
289: Home
290: Home
291: Downloads
292: Home
293: Member Screenshots
294: Community Forums
295: Member Screenshots
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Photo Gallery
299: Community Forums
300: Downloads
301: Member Screenshots
302: Downloads
303: Home
304: Member Screenshots
305: Community Forums
306: Home
307: Home
308: Member Screenshots
309: Home
310: Photo Gallery
311: Home
312: Member Screenshots
313: Downloads
314: Member Screenshots
315: Photo Gallery
316: Community Forums
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Home
323: Home
324: Member Screenshots
325: Home
326: Community Forums
327: Home
328: Community Forums
329: Home
330: Downloads
331: News Archive
332: Photo Gallery
333: Photo Gallery
334: Photo Gallery
335: Home
336: Downloads
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Home
341: Photo Gallery
342: Photo Gallery
343: Home
344: Home
345: Your Account
346: Member Screenshots
347: Downloads
348: News Archive
349: Community Forums
350: Photo Gallery
351: Home
352: Community Forums
353: Home
354: Home
355: Statistics
356: Home
357: Photo Gallery
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Member Screenshots
363: Home
364: Home
365: Home
366: Photo Gallery
367: Downloads
368: Community Forums
369: Photo Gallery
370: Home
371: Home
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Home
375: Downloads
376: Home
377: Home
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: News Archive
381: Home
382: Home
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Home
386: Member Screenshots
387: Home
388: Home
389: Member Screenshots
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Photo Gallery
393: Member Screenshots
394: Community Forums
395: Member Screenshots
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Photo Gallery
399: Home
400: Photo Gallery
401: Home
402: News
403: Member Screenshots
404: Downloads
405: Community Forums
406: Photo Gallery
407: Downloads
408: Home
409: Home
410: Downloads
411: Community Forums
412: Photo Gallery
413: Contact
414: Downloads
415: Photo Gallery
416: Photo Gallery
417: Community Forums
418: Home
419: Member Screenshots
420: Community Forums
421: Member Screenshots
422: Home
423: Home
424: Home
425: Home
426: Home
427: Community Forums
428: Member Screenshots
429: Community Forums
430: Home
431: Community Forums
432: Home
433: Member Screenshots
434: Downloads
435: Home
436: Downloads
437: Member Screenshots
438: News Archive
439: Community Forums
440: Statistics
441: Member Screenshots
442: Community Forums
443: News Archive
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: News Archive
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Home
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Home
453: Community Forums
454: Home
455: Home
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Downloads
460: Photo Gallery
461: Community Forums
462: Downloads
463: Photo Gallery
464: Photo Gallery
465: Member Screenshots
466: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
3 churchills
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:46 am
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- L.Delsing
Hello Jinx,
Were is this Conqueror (and Cent in the background) located??

Regards,
Lesley



I am sorry, i have absolutely no idea. The website -

home.freeuk.net/armour.../fv214.htm

- just has the photos, and no information.

There is a second page -

home.freeuk.net/armour...fv214a.htm

- that shows some close-ups, including of the suspension.

(Main page = www.armourinfocus.co.uk/indexfb.htm )

Maybe someone else will recognize this museum.....?
Back to top
View user's profile
palic
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:04 am
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Well, I think the number and the size of Churchill wheels is somehow connected with its ability to survive after mineblast damage... The track is really thick and when blasted off one "bogie" could be changed and till that moment tank is able to move forward without any special problems.
The configuration of Churchill - I mean these side sponsons provides extra space to relatively narrow hull
To the question on location of Centurion and Conqueror - this seems to be located somewhere at the milbase doesn't it (wire fence + Concertina wire)? May these tanks be gatekeepers?
I can remember Chieftain in Aldershot for example..
The pics of Conqueror driven through muddy terrain were taken in Duxford IWM I am sure, so could these gatekeepers be located there (not at the main entrance to the museum)? Maybe they were taken at the "backyard" gate of IWM Duxford?
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Thanks!
Wild guess, maybe the gateguards are in the Salisbury plain area.

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:13 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

In the third picture on the second page ( home.freeuk.net/armour...fv214a.htm ) a traffic sign is visible through the tracks of the tank. It is too blurry to read, but maybe someone can recognize the layout/nationality?

Another sign is visible in the sixth picture. Can't read it, but it looks military.

And the surrounding countryside looks British to me. Salisbury is definitely a possibility.

Guesses?
Back to top
View user's profile
T13b1(be)
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 02, 2006
Posts: 24
Location: belgium
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:57 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

In fact the conqueror is a gatekeeper at RAC ranges at Castlemartin in Wales. The tanks hull number is either 41ba03 or 41ba22. All of it depends when the picture was taken because the conqueror was replaced by the second ( which was saved from the shootingrange ) . The first is again put back in running condition.
I have found this in the book " conqueror " by Rob griffin ( ISBN 1- 86126-251-5)
regards
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:09 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

In the past (1999) we sometimes go there for gunnery training. At the entrance of Merrion camp there were also a Churchill and a Leopard 1.

Are these still there?

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
T13b1(be)
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 02, 2006
Posts: 24
Location: belgium
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:22 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Sorry, all the info I have comes from this book where I had seen the photo so I can't tell any more about the site.
Regards
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Mystery solved.

The first set of photos were taken at RAF Duxford (where they also have a Conqueror ARV).

The gate guardians - Conqueror and Centurion - are at the main entrance to the Castlemartin Range in Pembrokeshire, Wales. The road running by the gate is the B4319.

(I e-mailed the webmaster of the site where i found the photos. Since all photos were taken by him or his father, i think this information passes the reliability test.)
Back to top
View user's profile
palic
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:09 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Bull's-eye!!!
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:18 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- T13b1(be)
In fact the conqueror is a gatekeeper at RAC ranges at Castlemartin in Wales. The tanks hull number is either 41ba03 or 41ba22. All of it depends when the picture was taken because the conqueror was replaced by the second ( which was saved from the shootingrange ) . The first is again put back in running condition.
I have found this in the book " conqueror " by Rob griffin ( ISBN 1- 86126-251-5)
regards


I believe Rob Griffin was a semi regular contributer to the 'old' discussion group, does anyone know if he made the move or is he AWOL?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:58 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- Jinx
- bsmart
The Churchill was the last in the line of 'Shelled Ground Tanks' which goes back to the original Heavy Tanks of WWI. The long track length was meant to give it a good trench crossing ability combined with the ability to support infantry assaults across heavily shelled ground.



Well, i guess in the Churchill's case, any suspension is preferable to no suspension.


The larger wheels and longer travel suspension systems used by other tanks in WWII, Whether it was torsion bar, Christie, Volute spring suspension or some other were needed on those tanks because of the higher speed of the modern 'cruiser' tanks. The Churchill wasn't fast (neither was its ancester the Matilda) It's max speed was 15 MPH with a crosscountry speed of about 8 MPH. At those speeds it didn't need a complex suspension.



Soooo.....since it was never intended to go fast, they designed it so that it couldn't go fast? (I wonder how many committees it took to come up with that plan.....?)


The Centurian was the first of a new line of 'Universal Tanks' that combined both the Infantry and Crusier tank line. I never thought the Conquerer had that small of wheels. And it did have a torsion bar suspension. The Churchill had small individual coil springs at each wheel station.



The following webpage has six photos of Conquerors. Maybe it's because it is so large a tank, but those wheels do look rather small to me.

home.freeuk.net/armour.../fv214.htm

But maybe it's just me.


I am leaving on a trip early in the morning so I'll be out of touch for a week. So if I don't respond to a thread you'll know why.



I hope you have a good trip!


Back from the trip, flew to Las Vegas (Didn't win big enough to retire or buy a tank museum) Went to the Grand Canyon and a couple other tourist sites, flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.

About the 'Since it wasn't supposed to go fast they made a suspension that couldn't go fast' idea. (since I don't want to try and figure how to interject replies with quotes)

I look at it differently. Any design is a balancing act. High speed suspensions are more complex (and there for harder and more expensive to produce) so if a vehicle will not need the capability why design it in? Once the design criteria for the Churchill was set the design team created a vehicle that met those criteria and did so in the most efficient manner. I have also assumed that production resource availability played some part in the design (after all it used commercial Bedford bus engines) and the smaller springs were probably easier to produce or more readily available than were the larger higher capacity springs needed for Christie suspensions (The high speed suspension used in the cruiser tanks of the same era)

I sometimes think that when we look back at the WWII era not enough emphasis is put on the production and logistical factors that played into the decision of creating the weapon systems of the time. Many look at the individual tanks and make statements such as 'The U.S. couldn't build a tank to compete with the German Tiger or Panther' or they give a condescending smirk about the Grant/Lee because it had the main gun in the hull.

What these narrow views don't take into consideration was the intense competition between competing priorities that the planners of all nations faced. What good does it do to build a fleet of heavy tanks that can take on anything in the world if there isn't enough shipping to get it to the battle zone. Or if there aren't enough escort ships to keep the transports from getting sunk enroute. So decisions are made based on assumptions and capabilities that ned up affecting battles that take place months or even years later. It is easy to look back and say 'The U.S. should have fielded a heavy tank with a high velocity 90mm gun' when looking ath the campaign in Northwest Europe in hindsight. But when planners were looking ahead in early to mid 1942 and seeing ships being sunk faster than they could be replaced in the North Atlantic, or seeing the Naval casualties in the Pacific it was more important that a balanced production system be implemented. This sometimes meant that equipment that was 'adequate' instead of 'optimal' was provided.

And yes there were mistakes made. Did we need all the Battleships and Aircraft Carriers that were built? What about the thousands of aircraft and tanks that were declared surplus without ever being issued out of the depots? The counterpoint was the ammunition shortage of late 1944 caused in part when Congressional pressure at seeing how much 'wastage' there was sitting in dumps when the North Africa Campaign was over caused production to be cut back in late '43/ early '44 only to find the pipeline emptied out once the Campaign through France and the Pacific campaign got rolling in high gear in mid'44

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:32 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- bsmart

flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.



Bob,
Somehow, I'd imagined that you were a lot older. Laughing

...know what you mean, though...some of those full flights make me want to scream too.

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- Doug_Kibbey
- bsmart

flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.



Bob,
Somehow, I'd imagined that you were a lot older. lol

...know what you mean, though...some of those full flights make me want to scream too.

chug
Very Funny. No he was in the seat in front of me and everytime he kicked the tray table flopped down (Note to self carry a roll of duct tape when travelling. can be used to hold tray table in place or restrain/silence other passengers)

Is duct tape on the 'restricted items list?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:07 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- bsmart
- Doug_Kibbey
- bsmart

flew back on a FULL Southwest flight with a 3 year old kicking the seat in front of me and/or screaming for the entire 4.5 hour flight.



Bob,
Somehow, I'd imagined that you were a lot older. lol

...know what you mean, though...some of those full flights make me want to scream too.

chug
Very Funny. No he was in the seat in front of me and everytime he kicked the tray table flopped down (Note to self carry a roll of duct tape when travelling. can be used to hold tray table in place or restrain/silence other passengers)

Is duct tape on the 'restricted items list?


If it is, it shouldn't be. Makes you wonder about a lenth of wire and two short sticks, in those cases where the parents make NO attempt to manage the child.... Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
jch_in_uk
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

"pretty rare early Churchill Mk.I (A 22) probably?? with 40 mm gun turret mounted and 76,2 mm hull mounted howitzer"


I think this vehicle is the one that used to reside in the children play area at the old Museum of Army Transport in Beverley. It was in a bit of a state in those days and I'm not sure how original it is.

JH
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum