±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 501
Total: 501
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Community Forums
03: Member Screenshots
04: Home
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Downloads
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Community Forums
15: Member Screenshots
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Downloads
21: Community Forums
22: Photo Gallery
23: Photo Gallery
24: Member Screenshots
25: Home
26: Photo Gallery
27: Community Forums
28: Member Screenshots
29: Community Forums
30: Photo Gallery
31: Home
32: Member Screenshots
33: Member Screenshots
34: Photo Gallery
35: Member Screenshots
36: Photo Gallery
37: Member Screenshots
38: Home
39: Downloads
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Home
45: Member Screenshots
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Member Screenshots
50: Photo Gallery
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: News Archive
54: Community Forums
55: Member Screenshots
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: News Archive
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Photo Gallery
74: Community Forums
75: Home
76: Statistics
77: Community Forums
78: Photo Gallery
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Member Screenshots
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Member Screenshots
89: Community Forums
90: Photo Gallery
91: Home
92: Member Screenshots
93: Home
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Member Screenshots
98: Home
99: Downloads
100: Photo Gallery
101: Home
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Home
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Member Screenshots
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Downloads
115: Photo Gallery
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Photo Gallery
119: Home
120: Photo Gallery
121: Member Screenshots
122: News Archive
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Downloads
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Home
130: Home
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Member Screenshots
138: Downloads
139: Community Forums
140: Home
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Home
146: Community Forums
147: Photo Gallery
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Member Screenshots
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Home
156: Photo Gallery
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: News Archive
162: Community Forums
163: Home
164: Home
165: Home
166: Home
167: Photo Gallery
168: Photo Gallery
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Member Screenshots
173: Photo Gallery
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Members List
180: Home
181: Member Screenshots
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Member Screenshots
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Home
188: Photo Gallery
189: Member Screenshots
190: Downloads
191: Home
192: Home
193: Home
194: Home
195: Photo Gallery
196: Home
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Home
201: Member Screenshots
202: Photo Gallery
203: Community Forums
204: Downloads
205: Photo Gallery
206: Home
207: Photo Gallery
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Home
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Downloads
216: Home
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Home
222: Home
223: Member Screenshots
224: Member Screenshots
225: Community Forums
226: Member Screenshots
227: Member Screenshots
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Downloads
231: Member Screenshots
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Photo Gallery
236: Photo Gallery
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Member Screenshots
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Photo Gallery
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Statistics
246: Photo Gallery
247: Home
248: Home
249: Downloads
250: Member Screenshots
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Member Screenshots
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Home
258: Community Forums
259: Downloads
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Photo Gallery
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Home
275: Home
276: Home
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Home
280: Photo Gallery
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Home
287: Community Forums
288: News Archive
289: Photo Gallery
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Home
296: Member Screenshots
297: Home
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Home
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Home
308: Home
309: Home
310: Home
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Home
315: Home
316: Home
317: Home
318: Community Forums
319: Home
320: Photo Gallery
321: Member Screenshots
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Statistics
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Home
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Home
337: Home
338: Home
339: Community Forums
340: Home
341: Home
342: Community Forums
343: Downloads
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Photo Gallery
350: Home
351: Home
352: Home
353: Community Forums
354: Home
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Statistics
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Home
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Downloads
367: Photo Gallery
368: Home
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Home
372: Home
373: Photo Gallery
374: Photo Gallery
375: Community Forums
376: Photo Gallery
377: News Archive
378: Home
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Photo Gallery
387: Home
388: Home
389: Home
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Member Screenshots
393: Downloads
394: Community Forums
395: Home
396: Community Forums
397: Member Screenshots
398: Home
399: Downloads
400: Member Screenshots
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Downloads
406: Community Forums
407: Home
408: Home
409: Member Screenshots
410: Community Forums
411: Photo Gallery
412: Photo Gallery
413: Home
414: Downloads
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Home
419: Home
420: Photo Gallery
421: Home
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Home
425: Home
426: Community Forums
427: Photo Gallery
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Home
436: Home
437: Photo Gallery
438: Member Screenshots
439: Community Forums
440: Photo Gallery
441: Member Screenshots
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Home
445: Community Forums
446: Photo Gallery
447: Community Forums
448: Home
449: Photo Gallery
450: Member Screenshots
451: Photo Gallery
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: Home
455: Community Forums
456: Home
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Photo Gallery
464: Home
465: Home
466: Community Forums
467: Home
468: Community Forums
469: Home
470: Home
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: News Archive
475: Downloads
476: Home
477: Downloads
478: Home
479: Home
480: Downloads
481: Member Screenshots
482: Home
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Photo Gallery
488: Home
489: Community Forums
490: Downloads
491: Community Forums
492: Home
493: Community Forums
494: Home
495: Photo Gallery
496: Photo Gallery
497: Home
498: Photo Gallery
499: Community Forums
500: Home
501: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jtrowbridge5
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:17 pm
Post subject: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

bovingtons only surviving dd sherman

dennis

community.webshots.com...ity=zXvjYc
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:27 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

How in the world could they tell where they were going?

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:37 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

- Sabot
How in the world could they tell where they were going?


I think the TC was elevated and talked the driver through it...act of faith, for sure. Like a Sheridan with the swim barrier up, but no window in the surfboard (which wasn't all that great a view, lemme' tell ya'...)
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
geoffsteer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:57 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

Hi Dennis-
There are two other Duplex drive Shermans in existence, one is somewhere in England and was salvaged off a section of beach that saw alot of amphibious training exercises during WW-II. This particular Sherman's salvaging was the subject of a book published around twenty years ago, written by a pub owner who received a thank you letter from, then president, Ronald Reagan. The other Duplex drive Sherman is sitting off a beach in Italy. I think this one has been salvaged and is now sitting on dry land but I am not to sure about this. So, maby we cannot count this one as being among the living. This is not intended as a correction to your post, just letting you know that, happily, the Bovington Duplex drive Sherman is not without siblings!
Regards-
Geoff Steer [;-{/) Smile
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:13 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

There is also a DD at Aberdeen. It is a later 'test' vehicle. I think it has a 76mm gun and possibly HVSS.

Neil do you have a picture?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
jtrowbridge5
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:30 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

sorry, don't want to disagree with anyone on this, only going by what the museum told me[ and the sign on the front].maybe its the only one in original condition IE-canvas surround
dennis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:58 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

Hi Sabot! Hi Folks!

- Sabot

How in the world could they tell where they were going?


There was a small platform added to the top of the turret just behind the TC's hatch. In Dennis' link, check photo number XX3 where you can see the number 50 on the turret. Look to the rear and you can see the brace that supports the back edge along with a pair of boots of a trooper standing on it. There was a fixed post for him to hold on to with one hand. With the other hand his control a tiller that was mounted on the engine deck with linkage that ran to the rear of the hull and down to the props. There was also a connection that went through the rear upper hull plate and worked it's way up the the driver's position.

The TC would control the tiller until time for him to get under armor, then the driver would take control. Some time ago there was a link off the Mr. Bradford's main page to a site titled "AFV Interiors" by Mike Kendall. He had a great write up and lots of photos of the Duplex Drive system.

Mike, did you make the tranfer? This would be a good point to post that drawing you had of the linkage, if that is OK.

Remaining DD tank count.
1. US Army DD lost during a VIP demonstration at Slapton Sands in England, now a Memorial on the beach there.
2. A Canadian DD, named BOLD, from the 6th Armoured Regiment (1st Hussars) lost off Juno, recovered 27 years later, now a Canadian Memorial at Courseulles-sur-Mer in France.
3. A 741st DD at the Musuem of Underwater Wreaks in France.
4. The restored one at Bovington.
5. A 753rd Tk Bn vehicle lost during training off Salerno, now restored with a working screen system at the Piana delle Orme Museum in Italy. The Patton Museum tried to get this one, but the US Navy salavge ship broke some cables and ran out of time. About year later, the Italian divers who had found it were able to get another salavge ship to recover it. While no crewmen were lost when this one sank, one of the Italain divers died during the second salavge effort. I would call that an example of AFVs can still hurt and kill you no matter how old their are.
6. This one doesn't really count because it maybe a post WWII test vehicle. APG has a M4A3(or maybe an ex-British A2)E8 76mm DD. It still has the frame, but the screen is long gone. This one had been on the 'Mile of Tanks', now in a motor pool with other vehicles, showed up in a History Channel Show with Dr. Attwater standing next to the rear while explaining the frame works and pointing out a remaining small piece of the screen.
7. & 8. Still in the water off Omaha, seen on TLC's 'Underwater Detectives' program last year sometime.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

- bsmart
There is also a DD at Aberdeen. It is a later 'test' vehicle. I think it has a 76mm gun and possibly HVSS.

Neil do you have a picture?


Yes, but not from great angles of course:





Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:48 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

How much water were these expected to cross? (I am assuming the sea state had to be pretty much "swimming pool calm".....?)

And was the full crew in place when it was in the water?

(And no, i am not going to ask the next question.....because i am too afraid of the answer.)
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:30 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

- Jinx
How much water were these expected to cross? (I am assuming the sea state had to be pretty much "swimming pool calm".....?)

And was the full crew in place when it was in the water?

(And no, i am not going to ask the next question.....because i am too afraid of the answer.)


They were expected to cross 6000 yards, with full crew. Of 29 launched, only 2 made it to shore on their own. Another 35 were brought directly to shore by their LCTs, against orders. Some of the 27 are still on the bottom of the Normandy coast, although I understand all bodies were retrieved.

Here's some links:
www.sproe.com/t/tank-dd.html
www.bbc.co.uk/news/hi/...016280.stm
www.moaa.org/magazine/...eptune.asp

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:07 am
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

Thank you kindly for the info. According to the last link many of the crew members of the foundered tanks were able to escape, and were rescued. I feel better knowing that.
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:08 am
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

Hi Jinx! Hi Folks!

- Jinx
How much water were these expected to cross? (I am assuming the sea state had to be pretty much "swimming pool calm".....?)

And was the full crew in place when it was in the water?

(And no, i am not going to ask the next question.....because i am too afraid of the answer.)


The sad thing is that during all the training that all the Allied DD crews had, very few tanks did sink. The biggest problem was the weather on D-Day. If was far worst that the planners had planned for.

It was just the 741st Tank Bn that had the worst luck. The US 70th over at Utah did put most of their DDs into the water and very few sank. The British and Canadian DD units launched some and landed some on their beachs. While they did have some that sank, it was no where near the level of lost the 741st had.

There is also a question about who's fault it was for following the plan and launching the 741st at 6,000 yards. Some books blame the Navy for sticking to the plan. One book claims the two tank company commanders demanded the Navy follow the plan and launch the tanks. The only good thing is that both the Navy and the Army folks with the 743rd saw what happiend to the 741st and didn't follow it.

Many reports make a big deal out of the lost of those 27 DDs, but in turn fail to give credit to the number of Shermans that did reach Omaha during the morining.

My 2 cents,
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:16 am
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

- Neil_Baumgardner

They were expected to cross 6000 yards, with full crew.
Neil


IMO, it would have been asking a lot to expect them to cross 6,000 feet.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Chris_C
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 214
Location: WV, USA
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:13 am
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

There was a show on Discovery or something a while back about the DD tanks. It concluded that the trouble wasn't necessarily the distance; the current turned the tanks, and the waves impacting at an angle overwhelmed the support brackets, causing them to sink. I dunno how accurate their conclusions are, but it's an interesting take on the issue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
David_Clark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:57 am
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

Great photos.

While there are several recovered hulks, the Bovington Sherman DD is the only intact example.

As Roy has pointed out, while 27 of the 29 741st Tank Bn DDs foundered, most of the British and Canadian DDs made it to shore and, together with the Crabs and AVREs landed on shore by LCTs, provided much needed armoured support on the landing beaches.

I have a book at home by a British Sherman DD tank commander (the name escapes me) and it's a fascinating account of training and the D-Day landings.

It seems that the danger of piloting a 30 ton tank supported in rough seas by a canvas and rubber shroud wasn't really an issue and you have to admire those who attempted it.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum