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MarkHolloway · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject: ACRONYMS

Saw some 120mm main gun ammo labeled APCSDS-T. What does that stand for? I know what APFSDS-T is......

Also, what is 'SLAP' .50 cal ammo?

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: ACRONYMS

- MarkHolloway

Also, what is 'SLAP' .50 cal ammo?

"Saboted Light Armor Penetrator". Don't know the other one.....

Chris_C · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: ACRONYMS

CS is cone stabilized, and is used for training. The cone limits the projectile's range.

SLAP is Saboted Light Armor Penetrator, a .30 cal tungsten penetrator in a .50 cal sabot.

bsmart · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: ACRONYMS

- Chris_C

CS is cone stabilized, and is used for training. The cone limits the projectile's range.

SLAP is Saboted Light Armor Penetrator, a .30 cal tungsten penetrator in a .50 cal sabot.

In the .50 cal SLAP round does the sabot break away from the penetrator when it exits the barrel?

Sabot · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: ACRONYMS

APCSDS-T=Armor Piercing Cone Stabilized Discarding Sabot-Tracer

Chris_C · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: ACRONYMS

- bsmart

In the .50 cal SLAP round does the sabot break away from the penetrator when it exits the barrel?

Yes, according to things I've read.

geoffsteer · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 114

Hi-
APFSDS-Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot.
I dont know what the "-T" stands for.
HTH-
geoff Steer [;-{/)

bsmart · Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:36 am Post subject: Re: ACRONYMS

- geoffsteer

Hi-
APFSDS-Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot.
I dont know what the "-T" stands for.
HTH-
geoff Steer [;-{/) oops

T stands for tracer

I'm surprised that they make a discarding sabot round for the .50 cal. The problem of sending small pieces out from the muzzle could limit it's use near friendly forces. I would think that a round like the old APCR round where the lighter outer casing stayed with the penetrator and only gets peeled off when the penetrator enters the target. It is a little less effiecnt but not having fragments wizzing around has an advantage when there are troops around.

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: Re: ACRONYMS

- bsmart

I'm surprised that they make a discarding sabot round for the .50 cal. The problem of sending small pieces out from the muzzle could limit it's use near friendly forces. I would think that a round like the old APCR round where the lighter outer casing stayed with the penetrator and only gets peeled off when the penetrator enters the target. It is a little less effiecnt but not having fragments wizzing around has an advantage when there are troops around.

Some background:
"Velocity: 3985 feet per second
Maximum effective range: 4921.5 feet (1500 meters) against 3/4" High Hard Armor (HHA)
Unit Replacement Cost: $7.50 per round

Features: .50 caliber SLAP ammunition was developed by the Marine Corps during the mid/late 1980s and was approved for service use in 1990 during Operation Desert Storm. It uses a reduced caliber, heavy metal (tungsten) .30 inch diameter penetrator wrapped in a "plastic" sabot or "shoe" of .50 inch diameter.
Since the mass of the saboted penetrator is much lighter in weight than normal ball .50 caliber ammunition, SLAP's velocity can be significantly and safely increased in an unmodified M2 Machine Gun. This produces a very fast round with a very flat trajectory which enhances hit probability. SLAP ammuntion is completely interoperable with M2 machine guns with stellite liner.

Background: During the 1980s, the Marine Corps invested in both .50 caliber and 7.62 x 51 SLAP concepts. The .50 caliber effort was very successful and extends the light armor capability of the M2 Heavy Machine Gun significantly. The 7.62mm effort was not successful in the M60 and caused catastrophic barrel failures due to in-bore break-up of the sabot and the penetrator puncturing the side of the barrel. Also, its increase in penetration was not on the same order of magnitude as the .50 caliber SLAP's."

source: www.biggerhammer.net/f...74353.html

KenEstes · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 10

A little background: we in the USMC were very worried about the BMP in the early 80s, which looked like it would require use of already too scarce AT weapons systems to take out. At the same time, the Program C inf bn TO&E was coming to use, with some severe reductions in manning, supposedly to be compensated by improved firepower. So the inf took up the .50 which had never been theirs and made it mobile in their HMG platoons, 8 guns with a double issue of .50 and the 40mm Mk19, mounted so that they could skip the ammo humpers in the manning...they notice whenever they have to ground the mounts!

SLAP was the magic bullet procured in order to be BMP-killers in the inf bn w/o use of the Dragons which were to be saved for T-series targets. I remained skeptical that it would handle the front slope and turret face of the BMP, was glad it never had to be done. Cheers, Ken

L.Delsing · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Feb 10, 2006 Posts: 960

Hello Mark,
Below are listed the official designations of the cone stabilised training ammunition. The DM38A1 is officially designated Fin Stanbilised Discarding Sabot but it has a cone.

It has something to do with aerodynamica, below a certain airspeed the air flow changes and will slow down the speed of the round. Average, is that these rounds have the same ballistics as the DM33 from 0 - 2000 mtrs. Above that they behave different because of the cone / braking.

- CARTRIDGE, 120MM: FSDS-T, PRACTICE, MEDIUM RANGE, DM38A1, F/GUN

- CARTRIDGE, 120MM, CSDS-T, PRACTICE, DM38A4, MEDIUM RANGE, F/GUN

- CARTRIDGE, 120MM: CSDS-T, PRACTICE, DM48, MEDIUM RANGE, F/GUN
120mm, CSDS-T, PRAC, MED RANGE M865

Regards,
Lesley

Dontos · Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: ACRONYMS

The 'cone' stabilized SABOT is a training round that has the characteristic of service rounds out to 2000m. After that, it begins to drop rapidly and then literally splashes around the 3000m line.

Many tank ranges don't possess the impact area to facilitate the possible flight of the 120mm service Sabot. Thus with the fielding of the 120mm, the cone stabilized training round was developed and fielded.

As a gentleman named Doug Waters said, years ago, when testing the 'new' training SABOT round "THAT DAWG WILL HUNT!!".

Don

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