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SHAWN · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 31, 2006 Posts: 484

what armored units are currently in iraq at the moment?

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

Hmmm...even if I knew, I might hesitate to put it up here in a (relatively) open forum. I don't know if this would really be an OPSEC violation, but my immediate instinctive response was that it could be.

What do you guys think?

C

Doug_Kibbey

Several units (including two I served in RVN) posted notices and "letter from the CO", that kinda' stuff prior to, and/or during their deployment...11th ACR and 2/17 Cav, both in print and on their unit websites. It seems counterintuitive, but if the units announce it, where's the OPSEC?

Dontos

- C_Sherman

Hmmm...even if I knew, I might hesitate to put it up here in a (relatively) open forum. I don't know if this would really be an OPSEC violation, but my immediate instinctive response was that it could be.

What do you guys think?

C

Although I am no longer 'in uniform' I have many friends 'In Theater'. So I tend to not comment on information I am privy to unless it is 'dated' or available on open source site.

Better safe than sorry. Cool

With that said, check official sites for units currently 'In Theater'. I do believe it is commonly available.

Don

Doug_Kibbey

Like Don said...I think we're conditioned not to discuss "troop movements", whether it's currently relevant or not, in the context of the current conflict.

Heck, a ship can't come or go in San Diego without it being on the news...

Dontos

This is dated, but...

check out this link:

Global Security Dot ORG

Don

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

Hi all,

It wasn't my intent to punk anyone out, and if it sounded that way I owe Shawn an apology. My comment was more to acknowledge my own immediate reaction and to see what others thought of the situation. Are we just conditioned, or is there a legitimate security interest in such situations?

There have been a large number of servicemember blogs that shut down because of OPSEC policies, despite their not revealing information that wasn't available in the open-source environment. The rationale was that even though it was out there, gathering it together and/or making it more easily available from a semi-authoritative source was an OPSEC risk. I'm still not sure I buy that, but it's too many pay grades above me to argue with. I suppose it is possible that my response to Shawn's question is tied to that sensitivity.

What say y'all?

C

(Shawn, sorry for highjacking this thread, but this is genuinely an interesting subject for me. Hopefully you will get a satisfying answer, one way or the other.)

Doug_Kibbey

We know you better than that, Chuck...I'm sure no one was offended and you owe nobody an apology. Like I said of Don and myself, some of us are "conditioned" not to discuss deployments and movements...and understandably so. Clearly you are of the same mind. Seeing some of the postings on unit websites caught me off guard, too, but I'm getting used to it.

But you have a point about consolidating such information into one easily perused area...potentially "collating" data for those not astute enough to do so for themselves.

I don't think we're in a genuinely risky area with this topic, and if we get into one, someone will likely let us know. Or...we could "self-police"...err on the side of caution, and not pursue it. Let's see what others (who may have more insight) have to say....

bsmart

Does one of you Google-meisters have a link to an official DOD Press site that has the publicly announced deployments? That would be pretty safe.

Neil_Baumgardner

GlobalSecurity.org used to do a good job tracking the OIF rotations, but their last update was a year ago.

However, the Congressional Research Service recently did a report that gave the rotations based on DoD releases:

OIF 4

Military Unit Home Military Base Transition period
XVIII Airborne Corps Fort Bragg, NC February 2005
V Corps Heidelberg, Germany early 2006
42nd Infantry Division (Mechanized), NY ARNG Troy, NY February 2005
11th Armored Calvary Regiment Fort Irwin, CA February 2005
2nd Marine Expeditionary Force Camp Lejeune, NC February 2005
3rd Marine Air Wing MCAS Miramar, CA February 2005
3rd Infantry Division (Mechanized) Fort Stewart, GA February 2005
48th Infantry Brigade (Separate), GA ARNG Macon, GA mid-2005
29th Infantry Brigade Combat Team, HI ARNG Kalaeloa, HI February 2005
172nd Stryker Brigade Combat Team Fort Wainwright, AK mid-2005
1st Brigade, 10th Mountain Division Fort Drum, NY mid-2005
101st Airborne Division, Air Assault Fort Campbell, KY mid-2005
1st Brigade, 1st Infantry Division Fort Riley, KS mid-2005
4th Infantry Division Fort Hood, TX mid-2005
2nd Brigade Combat Team, 28th Infantry Division, PA ARNG Washington, PA mid-2005
1st and 2nd Brigades, 1st Armored Division Wiesbaden, Germany mid-2005

Source: DOD News Releases, Dec. 14, 2004, and Jan. 4 , Jan. 18, Feb. 11, Feb. 15, 2005.

OIF 5

Division Headquarters, 25th Infantry Division Schofield Barracks, HI mid-2006
13th Corps Support Command Fort Hood, TX mid-2006
1st Brigade, 34th Infantry Division, MN ARNG Stillwater, MN mid-2006
2nd Brigade, 1st Infantry Division Schweinfurt, Germany mid-2006
3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division Fort Lewis, WA mid-2006
3rd Brigade, 82nd Airborne Division Fort Bragg, NC mid-2006
3rd Brigade, 25th Infantry Division Schofield Barracks, HI mid-2006
2nd Brigade, 10th Mountain Division Fort Drum, NY mid-2006

Source: DOD News Release, Nov. 7, 2005.

CRS Report

Neil

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

Well, leave it to Congress to tell the world whatever they want to know! Still, naming Brigades is pretty generic, and likely safe enough to release. Now, if they start releasing true OOB stuff (battalions and such), then I'll wonder (OK, wonder MORE) whose side they are on.

However, I doubt that this will actually satisfy Shawn's initial question. There's no indication what types of brigades these are (SBCTs, BCTs, or old standard brigades), so it's hard to know what sorts of battalions they bring to the fight.

C

Neil_Baumgardner

That's easy enough actually, all from public domain:

OIF 4

Military Unit Home Military Base Transition period
XVIII Airborne Corps Fort Bragg, NC February 2005
V Corps Heidelberg, Germany early 2006
42nd Infantry Division (Mechanized), NY ARNG Troy, NY February 200 (HHC only)
11th Armored Calvary Regiment Fort Irwin, CA February 2005
3rd Infantry Division (Mechanized) Fort Stewart, GA February 2005 (4 Heavy BCTs)
48th Infantry Brigade (Separate), GA ARNG Macon, GA mid-2005 (Heavy BCT)
29th Infantry Brigade Combat Team, HI ARNG Kalaeloa, HI February 2005 (Light Infantry BCT)
172nd Stryker Brigade Combat Team Fort Wainwright, AK mid-2005 (Stryker BCT)
1st Brigade, 10th Mountain Division Fort Drum, NY mid-2005 (Light Infantry BCT)
101st Airborne Division, Air Assault Fort Campbell, KY mid-2005 (4 Air Assault BCTs)
1st Brigade, 1st Infantry Division Fort Riley, KS mid-2005 (Heavy BCT)
4th Infantry Division Fort Hood, TX mid-2005 (4 Heavy BCTs)
2nd Brigade Combat Team, 28th Infantry Division, PA ARNG Washington, PA mid-2005 (Heavy BCT)
1st and 2nd Brigades, 1st Armored Division Wiesbaden, Germany mid-2005 (Heavy BCTs)

OIF 5

Division Headquarters, 25th Infantry Division Schofield Barracks, HI mid-2006 (HHC only)
13th Corps Support Command Fort Hood, TX mid-2006
1st Brigade, 34th Infantry Division, MN ARNG Stillwater, MN mid-2006 (Heavy BCT)
2nd Brigade, 1st Infantry Division Schweinfurt, Germany mid-2006 (Heavy BCT)
3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division Fort Lewis, WA mid-2006 (Stryker BCT)
3rd Brigade, 82nd Airborne Division Fort Bragg, NC mid-2006 (Airborne BCT)
3rd Brigade, 25th Infantry Division Schofield Barracks, HI mid-2006 (Light Infantry BCT)
2nd Brigade, 10th Mountain Division Fort Drum, NY mid-2006 (Light Infantry BCT)

Neil

Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Folks!

OOB data for this war is going to be a nightmare to nail down after this war is over.

Even if one could list the number of tank companies in country at any givin time, there is almost no way to establish an AFV count.

From what I have been reading in Armor magazine, a large number of tank units have been leaving their tanks behind and using Hummers. Same thing with artillery units, many of them have left their tubes behind and are conducting patrols in Hummers and close quarter infantry type actions. In this war, almost everyone is an infantryman.

Look at Neil's post. Under OIF4 we see that the "11th Armored Cavalry Regiment" was deployed. At first reading one would think that a complete regiment of armored cavalry had been deployed. No were in that listing does it report that:
1. the 11th ACR is NOT a TOE unit, but a TBA type unit.
2. the number of troops, number of vehicles and type deployed.
3. Only part of the regiment deployed.

As an item of OOB intell, the fact that the 11th ACR is listed under OIF4, has no intell value at all.

I for one have no problem with listing units that have been there, however I agree that listing current units just doesn't feel right. Goes against the grain of years of 'don't tell anyone what we are doing'.

It would not be hard to ID a lot of the major units that are over there now. Just visit the DOD and US Army web sites and read the news reports and captons with all the photos. I would think that in a short time one could pull a lot of OOB data together. However it would not be like the OOB from passed conflicts because many units are not conducting operations per their TOEs. Last issue of Army magazine has an article about an infantry company that is conducting operations with just two line platoons. So many troops are detailed out, there are not enough left to form three platoons.

As for Shawn's original question, first we must find out what he means by 'armored' units.

If he is only talking about 'armored' units in name only, that is one answer.
If he is talking about by Abrams units by TOE and they have ALL their tanks with them.
I think the answer is...... NONE. Surprised

Sgt, Scouts out! Smile

LeeW · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 26, 2006 Posts: 61

Coming late to this but my first impression of Sherman's comments was. If he wants to know what divisions that's probably ok. If he wants to know down to say company level I wouldn't put it out on an open forum. Given that he didn't supply many details I'd guess that the division level is what he was asking for.

Neil_Baumgardner

- Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Folks!
I for one have no problem with listing units that have been there, however I agree that listing current units just doesn't feel right. Goes against the grain of years of 'don't tell anyone what we are doing'.

It would not be hard to ID a lot of the major units that are over there now. Just visit the DOD and US Army web sites and read the news reports and captons with all the photos. I would think that in a short time one could pull a lot of OOB data together. However it would not be like the OOB from passed conflicts because many units are not conducting operations per their TOEs. Last issue of Army magazine has an article about an infantry company that is conducting operations with just two line platoons. So many troops are detailed out, there are not enough left to form three platoons.

Exactly, despite "dont tell anyone," you can put a lot together based DOD, unit websites & news articles - although as you said not to any detail that has any real intel value. Based on that, this is the best that I can tell is currently in Iraq:

Multi-National Corps - Iraq (MNC-I) / Task Force Victory / V Corps (Cp Victory (Baghdad), Iraq)

Multinational Division - Baghdad / 4th Infantry Division (Mechanized) (Cp Liberty (Baghdad), Iraq)
1st Brigade (Cp Taji, Iraq)
2nd Brigade (Cp Kalsu, Iraq)
3rd Brigade (Cp Balad?, Iraq)
4th Brigade (Baghdad, Iraq)
1st Brigade, 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry) (Cp Liberty?, Iraq)
2nd Brigade / 502nd Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) (Baghdad, Iraq)

Multi-National Division - North / Task Force Band of Brothers / 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) (Camp Speicher (Tikrit), Iraq)
3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment (Cp Sykes (Mosul), Iraq)
172nd Infantry Brigade (Stryker Brigade Combat Team) (Mosul, Iraq)
1st Brigade / 327th Infantry Regiment (Camp Warrior (Kirkuk), Iraq)
3rd Brigade / 187th Infantry Regiment (Ft Campbell, KY (Deploys to Iraq - Mid 2005))
101st Aviation Brigade (Ft Campbell, KY (Deployed to Iraq))

Multi-National Division - Central-South (Baghdad, Iraq)
48th Infantry Brigade (Mechanized) (Enhanced Readiness) (GA ARNG), 24th Infantry Division (Mechanized) (Talil Airbase?, Iraq)

Multi-National Force - West / II Marine Expeditionary Force (II MEF) (Cp Fallujah, Iraq)
2nd Marine Division (Cp Blue Diamond (Ar Ramadi), Iraq)
1st Brigade, 1st Armored Division (Tal Afar, Iraq)
155th Armored Brigade (Enhanced Readiness) (MS ARNG) (Cp Lima (Karbala), Iraq)
2nd Brigade (Mechanized), 28th Infantry Division (Mechanized) (PA ARNG) (?, Iraq)
2nd Marine Regiment (Infantry) (Cp Al Qaim, Iraq)
8th Marine Regiment (Infantry) (Cp Fallujah, Iraq)
2nd Marine Logistics Brigade (Forward) / 2nd Force Service Support Group (Cp Taqqadum, Iraq)

2nd Brigade, 1st Armored Division (Cp Buehring, Kuwait)

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