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Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:11 pm Post subject: Po-lice M113 details shots....

Courtesy of a recent contact from another activity, I have a few shots to share of this M113 seeing LE duty in Pennsylvania. I'll just let the donor (anonymity is requested for understandable reasons...thus I've also obscured the faces...) give the background, apart from pointing out the surfboard bracket and mounting points for smoke dischargers still being present...and call your attention to the apparent "dual exhausts" (don't know what's up with that...). I've posed a few additional questions about this vehicle and will post the answers if I get 'em...
It's also my impression that the left side track tension might be in need of adjustment...
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"we have the two APC's in Bucks County PA (which is a residential area North East of Philly). My team is South Centeral Bucks County (S.R.T.)

The M113 has been a great tool for us... some of our vehicles have taken fire in the past, so a little armor is very good.... and we do practice wounded office/civilian rescues were the APC, makes our work a lot safer! Our 113 does have the rubber pads in the tracks, and it is suprisingly easy on paved roads, even on hot asphalt it leaves very little damage! (I am sure you know a lot more about APC's then I ever will!) We did depoly it last year on a murder.... in which a guy shot his girlfriend and later himself..... all the neighbor's interviews on t.v. could say was.... "Yeah some guy shot his girlfriend...... BUT, the cops have a tank!"
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Dirk

Very cool pics - thanks for posting !

Would be interesting to model a 1/35 LE M113 - without the 106 RR Wink

Cheers

Dirk

SFC_Jeff_Button

Looking at the inside, I cant really see the drivers area, but my guess is that this is an A2 model, with the laterals instead of the steering wheel of the A3's. For police use, an "ACAV" model would make more sense, in my opinion. Riot control, TC protection, and just the intimidation factor! How do police agencies come by these and does anyone know the going price?

Maple_Leaf_Eh · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 517

Found this nugget on a website that breathlessly prompts the US Army to reissue M113 "Gavins" (gag) to the troops in Iraq.

"Track Commander's Cupola Shield Kit, Machine Gun / 2510-00-121-8990; and, Shield, Protective / 2510-01-006-4587

TC's cupola gunshields + side gunshields for the two troop hatch MGs

The NSN number for the complete Gun Shield Kit including the cargo hatch side shields is NSN 2590-00-121-8990. AMDF price is $11,708.00."

See what happens when powerful tools are left in unsupervised hands - you get smartalec answers.

Doug_Kibbey

For police use, an "ACAV" model would make more sense, in my opinion.

Found this nugget on a website that breathlessly prompts the US Army to reissue M113 "Gavins" (gag) to the troops in Iraq.

"Track Commander's Cupola Shield Kit, Machine Gun / 2510-00-121-8990; and, Shield, Protective / 2510-01-006-4587

TC's cupola gunshields + side gunshields for the two troop hatch MGs

The NSN number for the complete Gun Shield Kit including the cargo hatch side shields is NSN 2590-00-121-8990. AMDF price is $11,708.00."

See what happens when powerful tools are left in unsupervised hands - you get smartalec answers.

Actually, the contributor of these pics lamented not having M2's and M60's, but only as a joke. Obviously a PR nightmare for any dept. (which is probably why he's a sniper when doing "special duty")

BTW, Roy and I were both on record as advocating the reissue of M113s with ACAV kits early on in the latest iteration of the Iraq war (sans the "G" word)...back when troops were getting blowed up real good in unarmored HMMWV's and such. These would have been a quick, off-the-shelf solution to the lack of protection available..especially during that first year. Since then, the IED's have gotten more sophisticated and the speeds faster...so it's an idea a bit past it's moment for the guys out front.

Nor were we "breathless" about it...that sort of apoplectic manifestation is only to be found at certain websites (and we can tell who's been slumming, can't we Wink

)

JeffStringer · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 637

What's with the "Blank Look" on their faces? Laughing

Maple_Leaf_Eh · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 517

The number of muzzles the SWAT guys point at a bad guy increases their chances of resolving the situation. Being able to get uncomfortably close to a standoff or hostage taking greatly increases SWAT's psychological control of the "customer".

Waiting behind a phalanx of gun shields for small arms is a great idea. The officers are well protected, and then there are the comforts of home while waiting for the negotiators to convince the rascal(s) to come out peaceful like.

The RCMP used borrowed military Bisons at one standoff in BC to get weapons teams into position when the map recce (and lookouts) determined their stalk was going to be compromised.

Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

call your attention to the apparent "dual exhausts" (don't know what's up with that...)

The dual exhausts.

In the photo of the inside. Those dual armored exhaust pipes are connected to the OD green item behind the officer's head that is setting next to the engine compartment bulkhead on the right side of the hull.

In Vietnam our vehicles had wedge shaped blocks bolted over those openings. Most M-113s found in Korea or Germany had those items which we didn't need in Vietnam.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Jeff! Hi Folks!

- SFC_Jeff_Button

How do police agencies come by these and does anyone know the going price?

As I understand the system, it works something a bit like this.

The U.S. Military declares an item of equipment, surplus or excess.

In this case, the US Army has more M113 APCs that it needs.

Item/items are placed on a DOD list of surplus/excess for any DOD element that has a need for said item.

If all items are not claimed by another DOD office, then they are placed on a U.S. Goverment list of surplus/excess for any Federal or State agency that has a need for that item. In this case a local police department saw a need for two M113s. They requested two vehicles. After the transfer is approved, the vehicles are de-mil-ed. In the case of a M-113 APC, the flex mount for the M2 50 cal machine gun is removed. The police department must pick the vehicles up and is responable for transport to they area. Vehicles come as is and any repairs are done by the gaining agency.

Remember some time back, someone post a photo of a XM800W that had been used by the USAF as an EOD vehicle. Same thing. The Army put the Wheeled XM800s on the list as surplus/excess. Someone in the Air Force thought they would make good EOD vehicles.

Somewhere in there, museums get a chance to request or buy a surplus/excess item. If no agency makes a claim then, in the case of the M113, the Army finds other ways of getting rid of them. Like dropping them in the ocean or shipping to White Sands Missile Range for use as hard targets. Evil or Very Mad

As far as I know, the state and federal agenies requesting surplus/excess equipment only pay to have it picked up and transported to their location. After that agency is done with the item, if is doesn't go to an approved museum/collection/memorial, then it is returned to DOD for proper disposal a strap junk.

Anyway, that is my take on how it works.
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

Doug_Kibbey

More M113 shots (same vehicle) data plate, drivers compartment (SOOOOOO much cleaner than I'm used to seeing...) and engine bay...

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