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Polar · Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:31 am Post subject: Tanks preserved as monument

I colected images tanks preserved as monument. Did you have any interesting picture this type with localisation?
Sorry for my pure english.
Below few mine images

Is-2 in Krakow - Nowa Huta - Poland

T-34/85 in Gliwice - Poland

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Tanks preserved as monument

Excellent pictures, Polar....welcome to the AFV forum, we're always grateful for new participants and contributors.

...and we don't worry about language skills, either.

Roy_A_Lingle · Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Tanks preserved as monument

Hi Polor! Hi Folks!

Great set of photos! Thank You.

Both tanks look like the outside have been been well taken care of.

I like the way the T-34 is set on a small incline with the first road wheel just off the front edge.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

bsmart · Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Tanks preserved as monument

Looking at the first T-34 picture There seems to be a 'bulge' in the side of the turret that I don't remember on other T34/85s.

Another detail I need to look at on my next trip to Aberdeen.

And as Doug said, Don't worry about the language and if we say something you don't understand let us know so we can explain it (That happens even with some of us who use English as our primary language)

SFC_Jeff_Button · Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Tanks preserved as monument

Sharp pictures, welcome to AFV! I like the mounting of the tank on an incline. I wish other displays would angle turrets, (other than over the rear deck) and put the vehicles into more realistic poses. Any shots of the plaques in front of the tanks, (if they're in english, which I'd bet they are not)?

Chris_C · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 2:49 am Post subject: Re: Tanks preserved as monument

Nice shots; thanks. There was also a thread on TankNet about this very subjet a short while ago.

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

- bsmart

Looking at the first T-34 picture There seems to be a 'bulge' in the side of the turret that I don't remember on other T34/85s.

That bulge indicates a late model T34. One upgrade was a power traverse motor, which required the bulge to fit into the turret! The bulge is normal, but not always clearly visible because of the grainy quality of many wartime photos.

Given the Soviet production divergence (i.e.; different factories + different plant capabilities = different solutions to the same problem), there are several examples of this. The bulge you see is one; a complete re-design of the turret side was another factory's response.

C

palic · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 172

There was a monument with an IS-2(M?) in Prague, SmÃƒÂchov area.
There is a brief story of that monument.
This IS tank, bearing "23" number was presented by Soviet commanders to the inhabitants of Prague in 1945 (1946)... They requested to have a monument with the (damaged) T-34 which had been the first Soviet tank entering Prague in May 1945.
Soviet "top brass" did not want to present a heavily damaged wreck (hit by Hetzer fire) and had "a factory new" IS tank at hand at that moment. So IS was delivered...
The maintenance job (see the picture) was done by soldiers usually twice a year...

Basic mistakes were:
IS presented instead of that T-34...
"23" instead "24" (24 was a number of damaged T-34)

This IS-2 was painted pink in 1990 (at first by a group of students), than repainted green, than painted pink again by a group of parliament members and then the monument has been dismantled and area cleaned...
The tank (painted pink again) stands as a gateguard in LeÃ…Â¡any, Military Technical Museum, the Czech Republic.

A question: Try to guess what was the reason the number was changed (23 instead of 24).
An answer: That meant "We will be back in 23 years..." (1945 - 1968)

palic · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 172

One T-34 (postwar) again - a gateguard in front of Military museum, VÃƒÂtkov, Prague...

bsmart · Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Tanks preserved as monument

- palic

There was a monument with an IS-2(M?) in Prague, SmÃƒÂchov area.
There is a brief story of that monument.
This IS tank, bearing "23" number was presented by Soviet commanders to the inhabitants of Prague in 1945 (1946)... They requested to have a monument with the (damaged) T-34 which had been the first Soviet tank entering Prague in May 1945.
Soviet "top brass" did not want to present a heavily damaged wreck (hit by Hetzer fire) and had "a factory new" IS tank at hand at that moment. So IS was delivered...
The maintenance job (see the picture) was done by soldiers usually twice a year...

Basic mistakes were:
IS presented instead of that T-34...
"23" instead "24" (24 was a number of damaged T-34)

This IS-2 was painted pink in 1990 (at first by a group of students), than repainted green, than painted pink again by a group of parliament members and then the monument has been dismantled and area cleaned...
The tank (painted pink again) stands as a gateguard in LeÃ…Â¡any, Military Technical Museum, the Czech Republic.

A question: Try to guess what was the reason the number was changed (23 instead of 24).
An answer: That meant "We will be back in 23 years..." (1945 - 1968)

In one way I think they did us all a favor by supplying an IS-2 for display instead of a T-34. There are lots of T-34s preserved around the world (We have at least 5 at Aberdeen) but there are very few IS-2s.

Looking at the picture of the soldiers working on the tank in this message and the picture of theIS-2 that started the thread something struck me. Look at the drivers position. The area looks completely different inthe two pictures. In the maintenance photo there is what looks like a plate on a smooth glacias surface with some kind of 'splash guard' in front of it. There aso does not appear to be the change of angle in front of the drivers hatch (or visionport) that is visible in the photo that began the thread. It may be the quality of the photo and the different perspective but I'm not sure they are the same tank.

What does everyone else think?

By the way the 'inside joke' about the number is interesting and hunorous (at least for those of us who did not have to live through the events of 1968) but if they were not even concerned enough to get the proper model tank to represent the 'first tank entering Prague' I don't think a small matter like the markings even crossed their minds.

Cloudy · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 06, 2006 Posts: 75

" It may be the quality of the photo and the different perspective but I'm not sure they are the same tank."

You are correct. The first photo showing the driver's viewport is of an early model. This port was eliminated in the later version shown being scrubbed by the soldiers.

palic · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 172

Well, there were different IS-2 hull variants...
The vehicle preserved in Krakow - Nowa Huta, Poland (first pics of this thread) seems to be one of the first production batch vehicles - theoretically the hull with the visor provides less protection than the hull without the nose and with slot visor only...
There are at least two vehicles (I mean IS-2s) with different style nose shape preserved in LeÃ…Â¡any...

Find a picture attached below with three different hull fronts as seen on IS-1 and IS-2 during the war...

From left to right:
- cast armour "boxy shaped" hull front with "window visor" typical for IS-1 and early production series IS-2 vehicles
- cast armour "sloped" hull front with "slot visor" typical for late production series IS-2 vehicles
- welded "sloped and sharp edged" hull front as seen on late production series IS-2 vehicles

Cast armour "sloped" and welded "sloped and sharp edged" hull fronts were produced paralelly in different factories (depends on their production ability)...

bsmart · Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Tanks preserved as monument

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Looking back at the thread I now see that the first pictures were taken in Krakow and were not the same vehicle as the one in the later picture.

At least my misunderstanding gave me a chance to find out more about one of the more interesting, but often overlooked Soviet tanks of WWII.

Another question though. In the picture of the soldiers cleaning the tank there is a cable (or something) running from the top of the turret down the front corner of the tank
and over the monument. It looks like it may be a rope (to pull buckets of water up to clean with??) but that seems a strange way to attach the rope. Anyone else have any ideas?

Also I like the expression of the soldier on the right (next to the fuel tank) the universal frustrated, bored expression of soldiers everywhere stuck on a lousy detail.

palic · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 172

On the lower end of that rope there are safety spring hooks visible (on the original picture) - so I think the purpose of the rope is clear (as described above).
The way how this rope is fixed to the turret seems to be pretty simple. That thing the rope is fixed to is a periscope cover and there could be a loop aroud it made of the rope... Simple way to be fixed and easy to be released... That is all what I can read from... a more detailed picture...
When speaking about these lads faces expressions you should imagine they were conscripts...
When the tank was painted pink for the first time there happened something very very funny... The group of students did not use any mechanization for their "secret" action (I mean a hydraulic platform or something like that) and the guy (not very wise from my point of view) painting the barrel ended his job with his buttocks on the "business end of gun", his head facing the gun mantlet and his hands holding a bucket and a brush... COULD YOU IMAGINE HIS FACE EXPRESSION???

bsmart · Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 12:50 am Post subject: Re: Tanks preserved as monument

From 9 years in the U.S. Air Force it doesn't matter if you are a volunteer or a draftee.
When you get 'volunteered' for a s$%^##y detail by your NCO or Officer you get that look.

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