±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 367
Total: 367
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Treasury
04: Home
05: Home
06: Photo Gallery
07: Downloads
08: Community Forums
09: Member Screenshots
10: Community Forums
11: News Archive
12: Your Account
13: Member Screenshots
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Home
17: Member Screenshots
18: Member Screenshots
19: Community Forums
20: Treasury
21: Supporters
22: Home
23: Member Screenshots
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Downloads
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Member Screenshots
36: Home
37: Home
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Member Screenshots
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Downloads
45: Community Forums
46: News Archive
47: Community Forums
48: Member Screenshots
49: Community Forums
50: Member Screenshots
51: Community Forums
52: Photo Gallery
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Photo Gallery
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Member Screenshots
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Statistics
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Member Screenshots
71: Member Screenshots
72: LinkToUs
73: Community Forums
74: News
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Statistics
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Member Screenshots
83: Photo Gallery
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Downloads
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Photo Gallery
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Downloads
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Downloads
105: Community Forums
106: Member Screenshots
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Downloads
110: Photo Gallery
111: Member Screenshots
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Member Screenshots
118: Downloads
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Your Account
122: Member Screenshots
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Your Account
126: Home
127: Member Screenshots
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Home
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: News
139: Downloads
140: Community Forums
141: Downloads
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Member Screenshots
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: News Archive
160: Photo Gallery
161: Photo Gallery
162: Community Forums
163: News Archive
164: Photo Gallery
165: Photo Gallery
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Member Screenshots
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Photo Gallery
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: Home
176: Member Screenshots
177: Member Screenshots
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Member Screenshots
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: News
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Photo Gallery
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Member Screenshots
201: Home
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Downloads
206: Community Forums
207: Member Screenshots
208: Community Forums
209: Member Screenshots
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Downloads
213: Community Forums
214: Downloads
215: Photo Gallery
216: Downloads
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Home
223: Member Screenshots
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Downloads
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: News Archive
231: Community Forums
232: Downloads
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Home
237: Photo Gallery
238: News Archive
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Member Screenshots
244: Community Forums
245: Downloads
246: Community Forums
247: Home
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Photo Gallery
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Your Account
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Photo Gallery
266: Community Forums
267: Home
268: Member Screenshots
269: Home
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Home
276: Community Forums
277: Member Screenshots
278: Community Forums
279: Home
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Photo Gallery
283: Home
284: Home
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Home
288: Home
289: Home
290: Home
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: News Archive
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Member Screenshots
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: Member Screenshots
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Member Screenshots
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Your Account
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Home
318: Community Forums
319: Photo Gallery
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Member Screenshots
324: Member Screenshots
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Home
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Photo Gallery
336: Member Screenshots
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Member Screenshots
341: Community Forums
342: Downloads
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Home
346: Home
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Home
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Your Account
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Member Screenshots
357: Community Forums
358: Your Account
359: Community Forums
360: Member Screenshots
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: News Archive
367: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dirk
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 115
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:10 pm
Post subject: Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo

Used Adobe Photoshop to grab following two frames from a vid clip I downloaded.

Image 1



What 120mm ammo is being loaded ?

Image 2

(Had to flip this image ! )



What ammo is loaded in the ready racks ? Note lettering on base of 120mm shell.

Thanks - Great forum

Dirk
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo

That looks like HEAT being loaded since it is blue I figure it is an inert training round. Should they be handling it like that? (by the standoff probe). The ready round is 'Target Practice, Tracer'

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])


Last edited by bsmart on Tue May 23, 2006 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo

Is that HEAT round being loaded blue? (I have weird color vision)...if so, it may be a TP-T round (a training round, as Bob correctly notes) in HEAT configuration.
How standardized are the colors, internationally, for various types of rounds?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo

I just edited my answer to add my thought about the blue color. I think at least within NATO the colors are pretty much standardized ( I know in the Air Forces they were) and Blue was pretty standard for 'INERT'. Looking at the base of the ready round it looks like their stock came from the same source as NATO stuff (Not surprising actually)

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo

Looks like standard training (target practice) HEAT ammo to me. The lettering is standard, and the M-number indicates type standardized ammo used by the US and by extension NATO. Too bad we can't see the rest of that base cap in the second picture..."Made In...?"

The blue is standard for training ammo of all types, indicating inert fillers or non-explosive projectiles. 105mm HEAT training ammo was always marked at TP-T. Sabot training ammo was always marked TPDS-T...when I was around it.

The "-T" is actually kind of funny, because I've never seen or heard of any modern tank ammo that didn't have a tracer in it! Then again, standard markings are standard...and changing ANY NATO standard, even for paper size, is a major undertaking.

C

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo

- C_Sherman

The "-T" is actually kind of funny, because I've never seen or heard of any modern tank ammo that didn't have a tracer in it! Then again, standard markings are standard...and changing ANY NATO standard, even for paper size, is a major undertaking.

C


Canister. Sorry Chuck, just had to say it.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Dirk
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 115
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo

- C_Sherman
Too bad we can't see the rest of that base cap in the second picture..."Made In...?"


Not able to grab the frame where one could see this 'Made In.....'. , the loader or gunner (?) is in the way Neutral
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a way to look up the 'OR104F158H002' and get the plant name, batch number, date it was produced and maybe even the QA person's name! The information is out there somewhere.

It may even have been on that Disk with my SSN and date of birth that got stolen from the VA employee!

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo

Both are training HEAT.

As for handling, thats pretty much standard.

Although its prefered to cradle the round with hands around the base of the projectile and covering the 'aft cap' primer.

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo

Quick google search of the M831A1 shows that they are made in the good old USA (page 6, third paragraph down): www.dtic.mil/techtrans...ndices.pdf

Handling is standard. The size and weight of the 120mm make handling by the aft cap primer too uncumbersome.

Even though the training HEAT round is just a big chunk of aluminum, it is still a very potent projectile travelling at Mach 3.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo

I'm reminded of an old old poster for one of those embarrassing Rambo movie. There's musclebound scowling Johhny Rambo with an M60 mg in his hands and double ammo bandoliers across his chest like a later-day Pancho Villa. Looks very mean and dangerous, until you notice the little blue-painted tips on the belted rounds. Blue? Training? BUSTED!
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo

- Sabot
Quick google search of the M831A1 shows that they are made in the good old USA (page 6, third paragraph down): www.dtic.mil/techtrans...ndices.pdf

Handling is standard. The size and weight of the 120mm make handling by the aft cap primer too uncumbersome.

Even though the training HEAT round is just a big chunk of aluminum, it is still a very potent projectile travelling at Mach 3.


I thought that lifting it by the standoff rod might be frowned upon. I figured that the training round would be sturdy enough 'to get away with it' but that a live round might not be as strong at that point and it would be a bad habit to get into.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo

- mike_Duplessis
I'm reminded of an old old poster for one of those embarrassing Rambo movie. There's musclebound scowling Johhny Rambo with an M60 mg in his hands and double ammo bandoliers across his chest like a later-day Pancho Villa. Looks very mean and dangerous, until you notice the little blue-painted tips on the belted rounds. Blue? Training? BUSTED!


Normally, uttering the "G" word is enough to put you over the edge, but when you invoke the "R" word, well....that's totally beyond the pale. Only the qualifier "embarrassing" immediately before it is probably what's saving you from the wrath of the Com-Central Secret Tribunal. Still, your vivid, sweaty imagry is in the poorest of taste and I'll ask you not to insult our (or others') servicemen past, present, and future with even taunting references to he-who-shall-not-be-named....or I shall be forced to report you to the authorities....

Some of us may be merely flight simmers here, but we have our standards to uphold. They're low, but they're there.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation...

Wink

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo

- bsmart
I thought that lifting it by the standoff rod might be frowned upon. I figured that the training round would be sturdy enough 'to get away with it' but that a live round might not be as strong at that point and it would be a bad habit to get into.
I saw a service HEAT round fall off of the sponson box of an M60A3 and smack the concrete motor pool surface with nothing but a slight dent on the windscreen (little aluminum hat on the rod). I did dive for cover when I saw it fall though.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 3:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions on Finnish Leo 2 Ammo

- Sabot
- bsmart
I thought that lifting it by the standoff rod might be frowned upon. I figured that the training round would be sturdy enough 'to get away with it' but that a live round might not be as strong at that point and it would be a bad habit to get into.
I saw a service HEAT round fall off of the sponson box of an M60A3 and smack the concrete motor pool surface with nothing but a slight dent on the windscreen (little aluminum hat on the rod). I did dive for cover when I saw it fall though.


As a loader on an IPM1, we used to 'bounce' the rounds on the loaders skate ring during monthly ammo inventory download, in Germany.

I had two service HEAT rounds that if you attempted to lift them by the 'rod' the projectile would slide out of the casing!! Shocked ( I actually did that once!! Shocked )

When we transitioned to M1A1's the ammo inspector (from USAREUR) was amazed at the terrible condition of the service ammo. It turns out that the 105mm ammo we had, had been on the M60A3's prior to getting the IPM1's years before.

Handling ammo became a whole different 'animal' with the 120mm. Several 'split rounds' convinced the 'power that be' to keep our service ammo in the bunkers, crated up. Instead of being uploaded on the tanks.

'Memories.....'
Don

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum