±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 1014
Total: 1014
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Photo Gallery
03: Member Screenshots
04: News Archive
05: Photo Gallery
06: Statistics
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: News Archive
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: Member Screenshots
14: News Archive
15: Community Forums
16: Photo Gallery
17: Photo Gallery
18: Photo Gallery
19: Downloads
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Photo Gallery
23: Member Screenshots
24: Home
25: Photo Gallery
26: Downloads
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Member Screenshots
37: Your Account
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: News Archive
42: Home
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Home
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Statistics
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Downloads
61: Community Forums
62: Member Screenshots
63: Downloads
64: Photo Gallery
65: Home
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Downloads
71: Home
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Downloads
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Your Account
78: Downloads
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Photo Gallery
82: Statistics
83: Home
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Member Screenshots
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: News Archive
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Downloads
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Downloads
109: Downloads
110: Photo Gallery
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: News Archive
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Your Account
122: Community Forums
123: Statistics
124: Photo Gallery
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Downloads
131: Community Forums
132: Contact
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Downloads
144: News Archive
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Photo Gallery
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Home
158: Community Forums
159: Your Account
160: Community Forums
161: Home
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Your Account
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Home
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Statistics
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Home
180: Your Account
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Photo Gallery
184: News Archive
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Downloads
189: Member Screenshots
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Downloads
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Downloads
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Your Account
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Home
206: News Archive
207: Home
208: Community Forums
209: Home
210: Photo Gallery
211: Home
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Photo Gallery
217: News
218: Community Forums
219: Your Account
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Your Account
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Contact
235: Community Forums
236: News Archive
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Downloads
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: News Archive
243: Community Forums
244: News
245: Community Forums
246: Downloads
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Member Screenshots
252: Photo Gallery
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Member Screenshots
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Photo Gallery
265: Photo Gallery
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Your Account
275: Member Screenshots
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Photo Gallery
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Home
283: Community Forums
284: Photo Gallery
285: Photo Gallery
286: Member Screenshots
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Photo Gallery
306: Community Forums
307: Member Screenshots
308: Home
309: Community Forums
310: Photo Gallery
311: Member Screenshots
312: Home
313: Community Forums
314: Member Screenshots
315: Treasury
316: Member Screenshots
317: Community Forums
318: Home
319: Downloads
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: News
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Statistics
333: Downloads
334: Member Screenshots
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Photo Gallery
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Downloads
343: Community Forums
344: Photo Gallery
345: Community Forums
346: Home
347: Home
348: Community Forums
349: Photo Gallery
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Member Screenshots
355: Community Forums
356: Member Screenshots
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Photo Gallery
363: Downloads
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Downloads
368: Community Forums
369: Photo Gallery
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Photo Gallery
376: Community Forums
377: Member Screenshots
378: Community Forums
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Member Screenshots
388: News Archive
389: Community Forums
390: Your Account
391: Member Screenshots
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Photo Gallery
396: Home
397: Your Account
398: Photo Gallery
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: News Archive
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Member Screenshots
418: Photo Gallery
419: Community Forums
420: Photo Gallery
421: Photo Gallery
422: Downloads
423: News Archive
424: Photo Gallery
425: Photo Gallery
426: Community Forums
427: Member Screenshots
428: Member Screenshots
429: Member Screenshots
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Home
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Photo Gallery
441: Photo Gallery
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Downloads
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Downloads
450: Community Forums
451: Downloads
452: Community Forums
453: Photo Gallery
454: Community Forums
455: Home
456: Community Forums
457: Your Account
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Home
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Your Account
465: Photo Gallery
466: Home
467: Photo Gallery
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Home
471: Home
472: Member Screenshots
473: News Archive
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Photo Gallery
477: Community Forums
478: Downloads
479: Downloads
480: Member Screenshots
481: Downloads
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Your Account
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Home
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Home
494: Home
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: News
505: News Archive
506: Your Account
507: Downloads
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Your Account
511: Community Forums
512: Downloads
513: Downloads
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Home
518: Photo Gallery
519: Home
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Downloads
528: Community Forums
529: Member Screenshots
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: News Archive
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Your Account
544: Community Forums
545: Photo Gallery
546: News Archive
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Home
550: Community Forums
551: Home
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Downloads
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Photo Gallery
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Member Screenshots
565: Community Forums
566: Statistics
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Home
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Member Screenshots
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Home
579: Community Forums
580: Photo Gallery
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Photo Gallery
584: Downloads
585: Community Forums
586: Downloads
587: Your Account
588: Photo Gallery
589: Community Forums
590: Home
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Member Screenshots
594: Home
595: Downloads
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Home
601: Member Screenshots
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Downloads
605: Home
606: Photo Gallery
607: Member Screenshots
608: Home
609: Photo Gallery
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Photo Gallery
613: Member Screenshots
614: Community Forums
615: Downloads
616: Downloads
617: Community Forums
618: Photo Gallery
619: Home
620: Community Forums
621: Home
622: Community Forums
623: Home
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: LinkToUs
627: Community Forums
628: Your Account
629: News Archive
630: Downloads
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: News Archive
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Downloads
645: News
646: Member Screenshots
647: Community Forums
648: Home
649: Home
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Downloads
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Your Account
660: Photo Gallery
661: Community Forums
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Home
665: Member Screenshots
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Member Screenshots
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: Photo Gallery
672: News
673: Community Forums
674: Downloads
675: Community Forums
676: Downloads
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Member Screenshots
682: Member Screenshots
683: Community Forums
684: Member Screenshots
685: Downloads
686: Downloads
687: Downloads
688: Community Forums
689: Statistics
690: Home
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Member Screenshots
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Member Screenshots
697: Photo Gallery
698: Community Forums
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: News
703: Your Account
704: Photo Gallery
705: Member Screenshots
706: Home
707: Downloads
708: Downloads
709: Search
710: Community Forums
711: Home
712: Member Screenshots
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Downloads
716: Community Forums
717: Photo Gallery
718: Home
719: Home
720: Home
721: Community Forums
722: Member Screenshots
723: Community Forums
724: News Archive
725: Community Forums
726: Home
727: Community Forums
728: Community Forums
729: Member Screenshots
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Community Forums
733: News
734: Home
735: Photo Gallery
736: Community Forums
737: Community Forums
738: Community Forums
739: Member Screenshots
740: Community Forums
741: Community Forums
742: Community Forums
743: Community Forums
744: Downloads
745: Community Forums
746: Community Forums
747: Community Forums
748: Member Screenshots
749: Downloads
750: Community Forums
751: Community Forums
752: Community Forums
753: Photo Gallery
754: Community Forums
755: Community Forums
756: Community Forums
757: Community Forums
758: Downloads
759: Community Forums
760: Community Forums
761: Community Forums
762: Member Screenshots
763: Community Forums
764: Community Forums
765: Community Forums
766: Community Forums
767: Downloads
768: Community Forums
769: Home
770: Community Forums
771: Community Forums
772: Community Forums
773: Member Screenshots
774: Community Forums
775: Community Forums
776: Downloads
777: Community Forums
778: Community Forums
779: Community Forums
780: Community Forums
781: Member Screenshots
782: Community Forums
783: Community Forums
784: Community Forums
785: Community Forums
786: Community Forums
787: Photo Gallery
788: Community Forums
789: Your Account
790: Community Forums
791: Downloads
792: Community Forums
793: Community Forums
794: News Archive
795: Community Forums
796: Downloads
797: Community Forums
798: Your Account
799: Community Forums
800: Community Forums
801: Community Forums
802: Member Screenshots
803: Community Forums
804: Photo Gallery
805: Community Forums
806: Member Screenshots
807: Community Forums
808: Home
809: Community Forums
810: Community Forums
811: Downloads
812: Member Screenshots
813: Community Forums
814: Home
815: Photo Gallery
816: Community Forums
817: Community Forums
818: Community Forums
819: Community Forums
820: Community Forums
821: Community Forums
822: Photo Gallery
823: Community Forums
824: Community Forums
825: Community Forums
826: Community Forums
827: Community Forums
828: Community Forums
829: Community Forums
830: Community Forums
831: Photo Gallery
832: News
833: Community Forums
834: Community Forums
835: Community Forums
836: Community Forums
837: Community Forums
838: Community Forums
839: Community Forums
840: Community Forums
841: Member Screenshots
842: Community Forums
843: Community Forums
844: Community Forums
845: Community Forums
846: Community Forums
847: Home
848: Community Forums
849: Home
850: Community Forums
851: Community Forums
852: Community Forums
853: Community Forums
854: Photo Gallery
855: Home
856: Community Forums
857: Community Forums
858: Community Forums
859: Community Forums
860: Community Forums
861: Community Forums
862: Community Forums
863: Community Forums
864: Community Forums
865: Community Forums
866: Photo Gallery
867: Community Forums
868: Community Forums
869: Home
870: Community Forums
871: Photo Gallery
872: Photo Gallery
873: Community Forums
874: Downloads
875: Downloads
876: Member Screenshots
877: Downloads
878: Community Forums
879: Community Forums
880: Community Forums
881: Community Forums
882: Community Forums
883: Community Forums
884: Community Forums
885: Home
886: Community Forums
887: Downloads
888: Member Screenshots
889: Community Forums
890: Community Forums
891: Member Screenshots
892: Community Forums
893: Community Forums
894: Community Forums
895: Community Forums
896: Home
897: Community Forums
898: Community Forums
899: Member Screenshots
900: Downloads
901: Community Forums
902: Photo Gallery
903: Home
904: Community Forums
905: Community Forums
906: Community Forums
907: Community Forums
908: Photo Gallery
909: Community Forums
910: Community Forums
911: Community Forums
912: Community Forums
913: News
914: Home
915: Community Forums
916: Community Forums
917: Community Forums
918: Home
919: Community Forums
920: Member Screenshots
921: Community Forums
922: Community Forums
923: Community Forums
924: Member Screenshots
925: Community Forums
926: Community Forums
927: Community Forums
928: Community Forums
929: Community Forums
930: Community Forums
931: News Archive
932: Community Forums
933: Member Screenshots
934: Community Forums
935: Community Forums
936: Community Forums
937: Community Forums
938: Member Screenshots
939: Community Forums
940: Community Forums
941: Photo Gallery
942: Photo Gallery
943: Community Forums
944: Community Forums
945: Community Forums
946: Community Forums
947: Home
948: Community Forums
949: Community Forums
950: Your Account
951: Community Forums
952: Community Forums
953: Photo Gallery
954: News Archive
955: Member Screenshots
956: Community Forums
957: Community Forums
958: Downloads
959: Community Forums
960: Community Forums
961: Community Forums
962: Community Forums
963: Member Screenshots
964: News
965: Member Screenshots
966: Downloads
967: Community Forums
968: Home
969: Community Forums
970: Community Forums
971: Photo Gallery
972: Community Forums
973: Community Forums
974: Community Forums
975: Community Forums
976: Community Forums
977: Community Forums
978: Photo Gallery
979: Community Forums
980: Photo Gallery
981: Community Forums
982: Community Forums
983: Photo Gallery
984: Community Forums
985: Community Forums
986: Community Forums
987: Downloads
988: Community Forums
989: Home
990: Member Screenshots
991: Photo Gallery
992: Member Screenshots
993: Community Forums
994: Community Forums
995: Community Forums
996: News
997: Community Forums
998: Community Forums
999: Community Forums
1000: Home
1001: Your Account
1002: Community Forums
1003: Photo Gallery
1004: Community Forums
1005: Community Forums
1006: Community Forums
1007: Community Forums
1008: Community Forums
1009: Community Forums
1010: Downloads
1011: News Archive
1012: Photo Gallery
1013: Community Forums
1014: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:35 am
Post subject: 1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...


Where to start!!!, It's good to be back on here, FINALLY! I'm the acting CSM for the rear-D of my unit here at Ft Hood so I've been very busy as of late with all the depolyments. Not to mention my move from Ft Irwin and the re-build of my computer. But now I'm ready to start posting again. These pictures are from the 1st Cav museum vehicles. The museum itself will be closed from 1 Aug through 14 September for a total rebuild and modification. The only exhibits open will be the OIF and out-door displays. I still have to get to the 4th ID museum before they move. They are being replaced by the 3rd ACR, which "un-cased" its colors last week. The 1st Cav museum was very impressive as far as its vehicles being clean and very "presentable". I have yet to go inside so it will be mid-September before I can do that. I hope to get to the future "range targets" this week behind range control and document their numbers and get some pictures as well. They look to be all M60's from the road way. I also found a very odd varient of an M113 in a "training" motorpool that I hope to sneak some pictures of.
To those of you who are able to get Ft Hood way, let me know so I can meet you and show you around. I have been extremely busy with CSM duties and other jobs I dont care to mention here so I haven't been able to get with the museum director. But I do know the post and can get you on. Just let me know if you're in the AO, you all are welcome in my home.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
jcneel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Victoria, Texas
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:26 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...

When is the 4TH ID museum supposed to move and where is it going? I might have to try and make a trip up that way before they go if I can make it.

cn
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:42 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...

- SFC_Jeff_Button

To those of you who are able to get Ft Hood way, let me know so I can meet you and show you around. I have been extremely busy with CSM duties and other jobs I dont care to mention here so I haven't been able to get with the museum director. But I do know the post and can get you on. Just let me know if you're in the AO, you all are welcome in my home.


Jeff - if you have any 'minor miscreants' sentence them to doing a thorough image walkaround of one of the exhibits for me will you Wink There are a couple there that I would like to add to the web site..

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:41 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...

Hi JC! Hi Folks!

- jcneel

When is the 4TH ID museum supposed to move and where is it going?


I don't know the when part, but the where part under BRAC, has the 4th ID elements at Ft Hood moving to Ft. Carson Colorado and joining up with the one brigade that is already there.

If Carson is closer, just wait for them to arrive and set up.

The 3rd ACR which was at Carson before it when to Iraq is standing up at Ft. Hood as one of the new type 'Unit of Action' Heavy Brigades.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:09 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...

Jim, which exhibits are you looking for? I'll see what I can do.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:57 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...

Thanks for the nice photos Jeff. I hope as duties allow we can get occasional "walk arounds" of the goodies there.

Gary Binder
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:32 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...

Jeff, many thanks for the pictures! I still need some help with sorting out my 1st Cav Museum & 4th ID Museum inventory lists. I think I have some erroneous duplicates on my lists (the M10 Achilles for example). Here's the 1st Cav list:

2S1 SOV out
AMX-10P FRA/IRQ? out
BMP-1 SOV/IRQ? out
BTR-50PB SOV out Captured by Israel in 1967
EE-11 Urutu BRA out
M1E1 Abrams USA out
M3 Stuart USA/JPN? out Captured by IJA
M3A1 Stuart USA out RN 30851
M3A1 Half-Track USA out
M4(105) Sherman USA out
M4A1(75) Sherman USA out Painted RN 3015305
M4A3E8 Sherman Easy Eight USA out
M5A1 Stuart USA out
M7 Priest USA out
M8 Greyhound USA out
M10 GMC USA out
M10 Achilles USA out
M20 USA out
M24 Chaffee USA out
M26 Pershing USA out
M36B1 USA/YUG/HRV out Post-war assembly?
M40 USA out?
M41 Walker Bulldog USA out
M44 USA out
M48A5 Patton USA out Painted RN 0718842
M59 USA out
M60 USA out SN 504
M60A1 RISE USA out SN 8800
M60A3 USA out SN 3079A; has reactive armor
M74 USA out
M113A2 USA out
M114 USA out
M163 USA out
M728 CEV USA out
PT-76 SOV out
T43 Heavy Tank USA out
T-54/55 SOV out
T-55 ARV SOV out
T-62 SOV out
T-72M SOV/IRQ out
Type 69 CHN out

Many thanks,

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
HF_Evolution
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Dec 22, 2005
Posts: 14
Location: Wales UK
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:23 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...

Nice picture of the Sherman, the British much to the disgust of the yanks stuch a 17pounder cann on in many of there Shermans, thinking the american gun was not good enough, they called this tank a Firefly. The Germans knicknamed them "Tommy Cookers", as when they were hit the brewed up (burst into flames, and the crews were usualy cooked. They were not at all as good as the german Arour, no way near, but there advantage was numbers. As one german tank commander said" As they came over the hill we destoyed them, all day, by the night the burning wrecks were all over the place and we congradulated our selves, next morning they came swarming over the hill again, we could not stop them and had to with draw."
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:30 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...

Be gentle with him, Guys....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:01 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...

- Doug_Kibbey
Be gentle with him, Guys....


Where to start, where to start? There is so much wrong with that post that I wonder if it is intentionally intended to create a controversy. New guy, one post, and he starts with that...

I'll leave it to the others to set him straight. We've done this too many times now!

C

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:49 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...

I have tried to reply and had my reply lost 3 times now ( I think we are having network problems here, or I am just having a severe case of fat fingers). I will attempt to reply this evening if no one else has

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:41 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...

Okay - I'm home now so lets lay out the defense of the Sherman

the 17pdr was a very good antitank gun, but it had poor HE performance. The 75mm had excellent HE performance but by 1944 mediocre armor piercing capability. The 75mm was being replaced by the 76mm gun (That is what the pictured tank is equipped with) The 76mm had moderate AP capability combined with good HE capability. Since most Shermans in American units spent their time dealing with antitank guns, buildings, machine gun emplacements, etc. HE performance was very important. The Sherman had one big advantage over the German tanks. It's powered turret was excellent. The Sherman used a hydraulic power system that was fast and smooth. The power drive for the panther ran off a power takeoff from the drivetrain. If the engine had a heavy load and the power traverse was used it could stall the engine. Consequently many units had policies that the power traverse was not to be used. I've seen some reports that it was sometimes diconnected completly. I've seen reports where Panthers and Shermans had meeting engagements where the Sherman was able to slew the turret around and get killing shots off before the Panther could swing it's gun around. There are also cases where in narrow streets the Pnather could not swing it's gun around due to hitting buildings or trees

'Tommy Cooker' or 'Ronson' - Yes early Shermans tended to burn when hit by German AP rounds. This was not due to the gasoline fuel. The ammo stowage in early Shermans was high and in the side sponsons. This combined with a very effective HE filler used by the Germans in their AP rounds led to a large number of secondary explosions. An interim solution was applique armor that was applied to Shermans to put heavier protection over these areas (and a few others that were found). The British did not use an explosive filler in their AP rounds. They used either solid shot or American AP that had the explosive filler removed (I assume they were delivered with the cavity empty and that they did notactually remove the explosive charge that the Americans designed the rounds for). So even if a British tank penetrated a German tank all it did was punch a hole in the tank. There would be some secondary damage (There are very few places inside a tank you wouldn't hit some other equipment) but nothing like the explosive charge in the German round would cause.

'The German Tanks were better armored than the Sherman' - Yes. The Panther was about 45 tons compared to the Shermans 35 tons. Ten tons of weight is a lot of armor. The U.S. had to design the Sherman to be shipped half way around the world to be used. The Germans had to send a Panther 500-1000 miles from the factory, generally via rail or road shipment. The Americans had to plan un unloading Shermans in ports where the heavy lifting equipment was out of commision or across beaches where ther was no heavy cargo handling equipment at all. So they had to be able to unload using ships cargo gear. This limited the size of the vehicle.

The German tanks may have been better armored but the Sherman was much more reliable. The U.S. demanded much higher reliability from it's vehicles than other armies did. I believe this was due to two factors. Again the U.S. knew it would be operating at the end of a very long supply line. They would not be able to send tanks back to stateside depots for major maintenance. The Germans assumed that the tank would be returned to the factory for major overhauls. Also the American automotive industry was probably the most advanced in the world at the time they could mass produce heavy equipment to good tolerances better than anyone else in the world.

When the Sherman entered production there was supposed to be a heavy tank to compliment the Sherman. In 1941-42 the Sherman was as good as any other medium tank in the world. The M-6 Heavy tank was being tested but was given a lower priority than the Sherman and the Stuart.

The M-6 had problems with the transmission (it was probably at least as reliable as any other countries heavy tank but did not meat American reliability standards) and given the extreme shipping constraints of the 1942-early 44 period when they were attempting to build up an army in the U.K. in the face of the Uboat campaign it was decided to not give the very heavy M-6 (50-60 tons) a high priority.

When a heavy tank did become available logistics again reared its demanding head. The Pershing was wider than the Sherman. This meant that every Bailey Bridge would have to be modified or risk being damaged by the wider tracks of the Pershing. So they were held back until after most of the major rivers were crossed (and the port of Antwerp with it's heavy cargo gear was operational)

There was a very good article titled "Tank Myths" comparing the Sherman to it's chief rival for fame (not The Panther, the T-34) in the September/October 2001 issue of Armor by Charles M. Bailey the author of "Faint Praise" a book I have been looking for for a long time since it is considered to be one of the definitive books on US WWII tank development

I think only one other tank in WWII could even compare to the Sherman. The T-34 and the Sherman both started life at about the same time and continued to be built and improved throughout the war. The M4A3E8 was a far different tank from the M4A1 'Michael' that was originally delivered to the British in early '42

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:13 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...

Bob, I'll play devil's advocate for the sake of discussion...

- bsmart


'The German Tanks were better armored than the Sherman' - Yes. The Panther was about 45 tons compared to the Shermans 35 tons. Ten tons of weight is a lot of armor. The U.S. had to design the Sherman to be shipped half way around the world to be used. The Germans had to send a Panther 500-1000 miles from the factory, generally via rail or road shipment. The Americans had to plan un unloading Shermans in ports where the heavy lifting equipment was out of commision or across beaches where ther was no heavy cargo handling equipment at all. So they had to be able to unload using ships cargo gear. This limited the size of the vehicle.


Hindsight being 20-20 and primary role of the Sherman as infantry support granted, but if the traditional wisdom holds true that it took 3-4 Shermans to take out 1 Panther or Tiger - doesnt that mean the US ended up shipping 105-140 tons per kill? Seems like a smaller number of heavy tanks, even in the Panther weight class, would have been more efficient - shipping-wise - than all those Shermans... In fact, it would seem like there was a lot of wasted tonnage shipped...

Even if you grant that the primary role of the Sherman was infantry support, seems like a high-low mix might have been appropriate. The heavier Panther-class tanks could have been offloaded using LSTs no? Even M6s and T23s, with heavier armor than the Sherman, might have been a good stop-gap measure until the Pershing arrived...


The M-6 had problems with the transmission (it was probably at least as reliable as any other countries heavy tank but did not meat American reliability standards) and given the extreme shipping constraints of the 1942-early 44 period when they were attempting to build up an army in the U.K. in the face of the Uboat campaign it was decided to not give the very heavy M-6 (50-60 tons) a high priority.


Again, hindsight 20-20, seems like M6s or T23s would have been a better use of shipping constraints than some of those Shermans...


When a heavy tank did become available logistics again reared its demanding head. The Pershing was wider than the Sherman. This meant that every Bailey Bridge would have to be modified or risk being damaged by the wider tracks of the Pershing. So they were held back until after most of the major rivers were crossed (and the port of Antwerp with it's heavy cargo gear was operational)


How come this was only a concern for the Americans? Sure, there are lots of stories of Tigers, etc not being able to cross bridges, but it doesnt seem like this was a big concern for the Germany army... Point being, if the Germans can get around the same rivers & bridges (admittedly in retreat), seems like Pershings could have done the same...


The M4A3E8 was a far different tank from the M4A1 'Michael' that was originally delivered to the British in early '42


Granted, but it has to seem that the Armor folks were a little too obsessive over the "tank" being an infantry support weapon. Even a mix of US Sherman Fireflies - not taking up more more weight at all, but with some additional ammo supply headaches - would have been a good decision. What would have been the impact of US mass-produced Fireflies been on the battlefield in 1944?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:57 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...

I'm having trouble with the multiple level quotes so

Did we actually need more shipping because it took multiple Shermans to handel a 'Cat' That assumes that if you had brought over a limited number of 'anti-Cat' tanks you would be able to have one where you needed it when you needed it. Isn't that similar to the Tank destroyer doctrine of having some unist who were supposed to hunt enemy tanks? Problem is you can't know where they would show up so everyone has to be ready to handle the enemy tanks.

Why was the logistics only a US problem (actually an allied problem) Well The defender has some options on when to drop bridges (unless the zoomies get them first :-)) And there were times when German tanks were trapped because bridges had been destroyed. And one of the factors that slowed down the German ardennes spearheads in December of 44 were the tenacious defense of bridges by American Engineer units.

I don't think the U.S. obscessed on 'infantry support' If anything I think they obcessed on 'Tanks shouldn't fight tanks' and the use of tanks as a breakthrough weapon to run rampant in the enemies backfield once a hole had been made in the line. In that role the reliable Sherman excelled.

The big problem would have been building enough 17pdrs. It would have taken too long to 'americanize' it to be built in American factories (The British weapons that were adapted for U.S. production had been decided on early in the war when they had the 12 months or so needed to ramp up production lines. I've always thought there should have been a 90mm Sherman. The M36 showed it would fit. It was already in U.S. production. so could have been incorporated much faster than a new British gun.

There was an offer by Ordnance to supply 100+ M6s (with 105mm guns, not howitzers but long guns) to Europe but the command didn't want the logistics issues.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:00 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Cav Museum at Ft Hood...

Hi Folks!

Good post Bob! Good counter post Neil!

A number of other factors that also impacted the Sherman, but then there is so much to the Sheman story, are:

the effect of General McNair on just about everything,
the mistaken belief that the 76mm and it's round could deal with Panther and Tiger tanks prior to June 6, 1944,
the mistaken doctrine that the tank destroyers could take care of all German armor,
the fact that combat engineer bridge units didn't have a pontoon bridge system in the ETO, until late 1944, that could safely support a vehicle as heavy as the Sherman on German rivers,

I am starting to get the feeling that we all need to get together and write a book about all the points and couter points of the Sherman. That way we can just link new guys like 'HF Evolution' over to it.

Bottom, line, it and the T34 won the war and that is the only thing that counts in the end. To 'HF Evolution' that comes from a CIA that once though much like your post.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:54 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum