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Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:27 am Post subject: Re: T28 Photos

I guess you cant reply to some old topics eh? So I have copied & pasted a reply to an old thread, which you can find here:

www.com-central.net/in...amp;t=3040

- Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Folks!

Some time back the subject of 'how do you lose a super heavy tank' came up on the old DG site. I put together this time line with some references for the known facts, dates known and unknown for now.

September 1945, 1st pilot model completed. Registration number 40226809
December 21, 1945, 1st pilot model shipped to Aberdeen.
Used for engineering tests.
January 10, 1946, 2nd pilot model shipped to Aberdeen. Registration number 40226810.
January 23, 1946 - Picture of T95 number 1 at Aberdeen.
April 11, 1946 - Picture of T95 number 2 at Aberdeen.
Date unknown, 2nd pilot transferred to Fort Knox.
Date unknown, 2nd pilot transferred to Engineer Board at Yuma, Arizona for floating bridge testing.
October 3, 1946 - Picture of a Super Heavy Tank at Aberdeen. Model unknown.
Date and location unknown, 2nd pilot model destroyed by fire during testing.
Project terminated in October 1947.
May 3, 1948 - Super Heavy Tank in the doors of LST 1153, location and model number unknown. Could this be a picture of pilot model number one moving to Fort Belvior?

I may have found another link in the chain of events for the T28, dated 8 March 1951.

Note the marking "TEC ERDL." ERDL standing for Engineer Research Development Laboratory, which was located at Fort Belvoir - where the T28 was later found in the woods in 1975... Not sure what TEC is, but probably Test & Engineering Command or somesuch... I dont suppose there is any way to identify which T28 this is...

Neil

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:46 am Post subject: Re: T28 Photos

- Neil_Baumgardner

I guess you cant reply to some old topics eh? So I have copied & pasted a reply to an old thread, which you can find here:

Note the marking "TEC ERDL." ERDL standing for Engineer Research Development Laboratory, which was located at Fort Belvoir - where the T28 was later found in the woods in 1975... Not sure what TEC is, but probably Test & Engineering Command or somesuch... I dont suppose there is any way to identify which T28 this is...

Neil

Neil,
"TEC" stands for my old org, "Test and Evaluation Command". It more commonly appears as "TEC-EBD" or some other earlier iteration of the AEB (Armor and Engineer Board)....on vehicles sometime in the 50's or 60's it got represented on bumpers as "EBD" or Engineer Board...short for the whole magilla of USAARENBD ("United States Army Armor and Engineer Board)").
In the '70's, it was just usually referred to as the Armor Board informally. That's where I was working post-'Nam 'til I ETS'ed.

ERDL also is an acronym for, I believe, Experimental Research and Design Laboratory and is one way we used to refer to the green-dominant leaf pattern camoflage I generally wore in recon in RVN, but maybe your acronym is the more accurate one.

When you hear or see references to "ERDL camo", they mean this stuff:

SFC_Jeff_Button · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:25 am Post subject: Re: T28 Photos

Doug, you cut quite the dashing pose. Is this with the 11th ACR or another unit?

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:33 am Post subject: Re: T28 Photos

Dashing hell...I was right out of the shower, wet hair and all.

This was from my major assignment prior to going the the 11th Cav, 2/17th Cav, 101st Abn. I'm all of 20 there. Rolling Eyes

Dontos · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:57 am Post subject: Re: T28 Photos

- Neil_Baumgardner

I guess you cant reply to some old topics eh? So I have copied & pasted a reply to an old thread, which you can find here:

www.com-central.net/in...amp;t=3040

- Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Folks!

Some time back the subject of 'how do you lose a super heavy tank' came up on the old DG site. I put together this time line with some references for the known facts, dates known and unknown for now.

September 1945, 1st pilot model completed. Registration number 40226809
December 21, 1945, 1st pilot model shipped to Aberdeen.
Used for engineering tests.
January 10, 1946, 2nd pilot model shipped to Aberdeen. Registration number 40226810.
January 23, 1946 - Picture of T95 number 1 at Aberdeen.
April 11, 1946 - Picture of T95 number 2 at Aberdeen.
Date unknown, 2nd pilot transferred to Fort Knox.
Date unknown, 2nd pilot transferred to Engineer Board at Yuma, Arizona for floating bridge testing.
October 3, 1946 - Picture of a Super Heavy Tank at Aberdeen. Model unknown.
Date and location unknown, 2nd pilot model destroyed by fire during testing.
Project terminated in October 1947.
May 3, 1948 - Super Heavy Tank in the doors of LST 1153, location and model number unknown. Could this be a picture of pilot model number one moving to Fort Belvior?

I may have found another link in the chain of events for the T28, dated 8 March 1951.

Note the marking "TEC ERDL." ERDL standing for Engineer Research Development Laboratory, which was located at Fort Belvoir - where the T28 was later found in the woods in 1975... Not sure what TEC is, but probably Test & Engineering Command or somesuch... I dont suppose there is any way to identify which T28 this is...

Neil

This photo and some others are the ones I had seen, when the whole 'debate' was hot & heavy. There is a whole series of the T28 loading onto and off of an LST.

Don

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:07 am Post subject: Re: T28 Photos

I've got some pics of it undergoing tests at Ft. Knox and they're dated. I'll try to post one or two tomorrow.

Roy_A_Lingle · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:01 am Post subject: Re: T28 Photos

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

March 8, 1951 at APG!
While that is a B&W photo, the vehicle looks like it has been taken care of and possible used on somewhat of a regular basics. Confused

I wonder if MCV-397 and 703 have any historical trails.

Doug, you look like you should be in the movies! Mr. Green

The more old photos of this vehicle we can turn up the better! One of these days, we all will hunt down the history trail of that monster!

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

bsmart · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Re: T28 Photos

I just noticed where the 'cranes' for installing the outboard tracks are stored in the photo. I had never thought of them being mounted in any way other than hanging over the side of the vehicle in position to remove or install a track unit. This mounting makes sense for normal travel so they don't extend over the side and increase the clearance needed

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:51 am Post subject: Re: T28 Photos

- Roy_A_Lingle

Doug, you look like you should be in the movies!

Sgt, Scouts Out!

Roy,

That's John Kerry you're thinkin' about...his own movies. Rolling Eyes

Of the ~400 pics or so I took in VN, I think I actually appear in about 12 of them...clearly, I wasn't thinking ahead to my later career. Wink

Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: Re: T28 Photos

- Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

March 8, 1951 at APG!
While that is a B&W photo, the vehicle looks like it has been taken care of and possible used on somewhat of a regular basics.

I wonder if MCV-397 and 703 have any historical trails.

FWIW, MCV397 is the APG/Ordnance Museum catalogue designation. In fact this picture was found in an "inactive" folder marked MCV397.

I can only wonder if TEC ERDL was ever located at APG, and then later moved to Belvoir - and the T28 with it?

Neil

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:19 am Post subject: Re: T28 Photos

- Neil_Baumgardner

I can only wonder if TEC ERDL was ever located at APG, and then later moved to Belvoir - and the T28 with it?

Neil

Neil,

APG would for sure have included TEC, anyway. If I recall the chain correctly from my time with TEC, the Armor Board at Ft. Knox was a tenant command of APG. "EBD", the Armor and Engineer Board, was subordinate to "Test and Evaluation Command" as it was represented at APG, and "TEC" was itself subordinate to AMC, Army Materials Command...our major command and the shoulder patch we wore.

Based on that, APG itself was an element of TEC and also subordinate to AMC, at least, as far as the test/evaluation of new weapons systems was concerned. I think it was this way for decades. Somewhere I have an official history wherein what had been the Armor Board at Knox moved (under a redesignation under TACOM or something) to Ft. Hood in the '80's and then the trail goes cold. I'll look at work.

Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Re: T28 Photos

Yeah, but this is back in 1951. AMC wasnt established until 1961. Basically the Ordnance Corps ran all acquisition until AMC was established, so TEC probably reported to "Office, Chief of Ordnance" at the time.

BTW, until '61, TACOM was the OTAC - Ordnance Tank-Automotive Command.

Neil

Hellfish6 · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Re: T28 Photos

Does anybody have any of the LST pics?

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: T28 Photos

Thanks, Neil...good information.

I forget which official source I found this at, but I had saved it to a document so I'll copy it here. It's relevant to Board history if nothing else:
__________________________________________________________
HISTORY OF THE CLOSE COMBAT TEST DIRECTORATE
The Close Combat Test Directorate traces its roots through the Infantry Board, the Armor and Engineer Board and the Mobile Army Sensor Systems Test Evaluation and Review (MASSTER) Ground Combat Directorate.
The Infantry Board was established on 31 March 1903 at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, under the command of the General Service and Staff College, now known as the Command and Staff College. The Infantry Board was dormant from 1911 to 1919 when it emerged at Fort Benning, Georgia. In 1931, it absorbed the Tank Board, which had been stationed at Fort Meade, Maryland. In 1940, tank testing was removed from the Infantry Board and placed under the control of the Armored Force Board at Fort Knox, Kentucky. In June 1940, the Airborne Test Platoon was formed under the control of the Infantry Board. It later became the Airborne Board and was moved to Fort Bragg in 1945. On 1 October 1945, the Infantry Board was re-designated the Army Ground Forces Board Number 3, and remained at Fort Benning. On 1 January 1957, the U.S. Army Infantry board was established. On 2 October 1988, the board was re-designated the Test and Experimentation Command (TEXCOM) Infantry Board. On 21 March 1991, the Infantry Board was closed at Fort Benning and the mission was assumed by the new TEXCOM Infantry Test Directorate at Fort Hood, Texas.
The Tank Board was created in 1920 at Fort Meade, Maryland and in 1931 was incorporated into the Infantry Board. It remained there until 1939 when it was transferred to Fort Knox, Kentucky. On 16 July 1940, it was re-designated the Armored Force Board and later re-designated as the Army Ground Forces Board Number 2, remaining at Fort Knox. On 18 March 1948, it was re-designated Army Field Forces Board Number 2, with no change in mission or structure. On 1 January 1957, it changed to the U.S. Army Armor Board, and in 1965 merged with the Engineer Board at Fort Knox. On 2 October 1988, it was re-designated as the TEXCOM Armor and Engineer Board. On 21 November 1990 it was deactivated at Fort Knox and reactivated as the TEXCOM Armor Test Directorate at Fort Hood, Texas.
The MASSTER Ground Combat Directorate was formed in October 1969 and merged with the Air Combat Directorate in July 1975 to form the MASSTER Combat Directorate.
In April 1976, MASSTER was re-designated as the TRADOC Combined Arms Test Activity (TCATA). In August 1976, the Combat Directorate was re-designated as the Combined Arms Test Directorate. TEXCOM was formed from the command and staff of TCATA and was officially designated as a TRADOC major subordinate command on 2 October 1988 and later merged with the Operational Test and Evaluation Agency to form the Operational Test and Evaluation Command (OPTEC). In 1990, the Combined Arms Test Directorate was split into several separate directorates to include the Infantry and Armor Test Directorates. The Infantry Test Directorate and the Armor Test Directorate merged on 31 July 1992 and was re-designated as the TEXCOM Close Combat Test Directorate. In 1999 the Test and Experimental Command was re-designated the United States Army Operational Test Command (USAOTC).
Since 31 July 1992, the Close Combat Test Directorate has been the operational tester of weapons systems and support equipment that will equip Armor and Infantry units with systems like Javelin, the M2Ae Bradley, the M1A2 Abrams, the Improved Recovery Vehicle, the Close Combat Tactical Trainer, the Thermal Weapons Sight, and others, as we head into the twenty first century.

Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Re: T28 Photos

Doug, further to your history:

www.otc.army.mil/Otc/cctd.htm

Neil

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