±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 413
Total: 413
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Photo Gallery
07: Community Forums
08: Member Screenshots
09: Photo Gallery
10: Downloads
11: Home
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Photo Gallery
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Photo Gallery
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Downloads
45: Community Forums
46: Downloads
47: News Archive
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Home
59: Home
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Member Screenshots
67: Member Screenshots
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Member Screenshots
73: Home
74: News Archive
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Member Screenshots
79: Member Screenshots
80: Member Screenshots
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Member Screenshots
85: Community Forums
86: Photo Gallery
87: Home
88: Home
89: Home
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Photo Gallery
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Downloads
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Member Screenshots
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Photo Gallery
111: Member Screenshots
112: Community Forums
113: Member Screenshots
114: Member Screenshots
115: Community Forums
116: Member Screenshots
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Photo Gallery
123: Community Forums
124: Photo Gallery
125: News Archive
126: Photo Gallery
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Photo Gallery
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Home
142: Downloads
143: Community Forums
144: Member Screenshots
145: Photo Gallery
146: News Archive
147: Downloads
148: Photo Gallery
149: Member Screenshots
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Member Screenshots
153: Member Screenshots
154: Member Screenshots
155: Downloads
156: Photo Gallery
157: Member Screenshots
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Photo Gallery
163: Photo Gallery
164: News
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Member Screenshots
168: Photo Gallery
169: Community Forums
170: Member Screenshots
171: Member Screenshots
172: Community Forums
173: Member Screenshots
174: Home
175: Home
176: Member Screenshots
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: Home
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Downloads
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Photo Gallery
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Photo Gallery
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Community Forums
203: Member Screenshots
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Downloads
207: Community Forums
208: Statistics
209: Home
210: News
211: Member Screenshots
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Photo Gallery
217: Home
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Member Screenshots
223: News Archive
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Photo Gallery
233: Photo Gallery
234: Downloads
235: Home
236: Member Screenshots
237: Home
238: Member Screenshots
239: Community Forums
240: Your Account
241: Community Forums
242: Photo Gallery
243: Home
244: Community Forums
245: Photo Gallery
246: Member Screenshots
247: Member Screenshots
248: Community Forums
249: Member Screenshots
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Home
254: Home
255: Community Forums
256: Photo Gallery
257: Downloads
258: Member Screenshots
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Photo Gallery
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Member Screenshots
266: Home
267: Photo Gallery
268: Member Screenshots
269: Member Screenshots
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: Member Screenshots
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Home
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: News
279: Member Screenshots
280: News
281: Community Forums
282: Home
283: Home
284: Home
285: Home
286: Home
287: Photo Gallery
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Home
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Photo Gallery
294: Community Forums
295: Home
296: Downloads
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Home
300: Member Screenshots
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Member Screenshots
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Member Screenshots
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Member Screenshots
314: Community Forums
315: Home
316: News
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Member Screenshots
320: Photo Gallery
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Home
327: Home
328: Member Screenshots
329: Home
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Downloads
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: News Archive
340: Home
341: Photo Gallery
342: Home
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Member Screenshots
346: Member Screenshots
347: Home
348: Community Forums
349: Home
350: Member Screenshots
351: Your Account
352: Home
353: Photo Gallery
354: Member Screenshots
355: Community Forums
356: Downloads
357: Home
358: Home
359: Home
360: Home
361: Home
362: Home
363: Home
364: Home
365: Home
366: Home
367: Home
368: Home
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Home
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Home
376: Photo Gallery
377: Member Screenshots
378: Community Forums
379: Downloads
380: Home
381: Photo Gallery
382: Community Forums
383: Home
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Photo Gallery
389: Home
390: Home
391: Home
392: Home
393: Home
394: Home
395: Home
396: Community Forums
397: Member Screenshots
398: Home
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Home
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Photo Gallery
405: Home
406: Member Screenshots
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Home
410: Home
411: Home
412: Home
413: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
M4A1 at 4ID museum...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:55 am
Post subject: M4A1 at 4ID museum...

I visited with the 4ID museum director today and she was quite suprised by the information I was giving her about her various Shermans. While she was suprised by the information I was giving her, I was suprised by her lack of knowledge. She wasn't even sure where these vehicles were that I found in various motor pools. She even admitted that she couldn't track down a small artillery pack gun that was in a motorpool storage somewhere. Then there was the fact that the museum has no clue about actual serial numbers. They literally pick some number on the outside somewhere and call that the serial number for record keeping purposes. Some numbers are stamped, attached plates, castings, or welded markings. I would almost bet that most of the USA numbers were made up or pulled from a hat. They have little to no history on any vehicle that goes further back than from where it was delivered to them from, sad. No wonder most of the plaques are not fully accurate.
This M4A1 had no visable stampings due to thick paint, (I was informed that all the museum area vehicles were painted two years ago). However I did get casting numbers if that helps. Is there anyway to ID this Sherman properly from what I've provided here? The Historical Property Catalog sheet for this tank at the museum shows it was built in 1942 and that it has a 105mm gun.
Neil, The director did give me a 2 and a half page printout of the collection that the museum is responsible for. I need to scrub it because it also includes monuments and such. There are 85 items, and only 37 show serial numbers listed. I'm no expert, but only about 12 of the 37 look to be actual serial numbers. I guess I have my work cut out for me huh? Of course I will be seeking the advise and wisdom of the esteemed AFV News DG members!!! So let the fun begin...

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:35 am
Post subject: Re: M4A1 at 4ID museum...

a nice mix of details on this sherman jeff.

it might be new to me, but it looks like the air cleaners have had a triangular plate added/extended from the rear hull for protection.
later style drive sprocket, with the centers missing...
mix of road wheels/idlers...
the modified M34 mantlet, 1 piece tc cupola with periscopes,
1 piece trans/differential housing
many other late M4A1 details...
it used to have a horn,
looks like it has the raised return roller arms...
what is up with the bolts running down the sides of the hull?
jeff do you have more shots of this vehicle? suspension? top of turret?
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:47 am
Post subject: Re: M4A1 at 4ID museum...

These are the only pictures I have of this tank. I took them today around 1400hrs when it had to be about 100+ outside so I didn't linger around long. That uniform and black beret were like an oven. Is there a particular shot or area you want me to focus on that would help ID this vehicle as to its serial number?

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:34 am
Post subject: Re: M4A1 at 4ID museum...

hey jeff, you arent in any way saying that the black berret isnt a practical cover, one that can be used and utilized in many an application for todays modern soldier... anyway... so you are saying it was a little chilly that day.

i would like to see the front of the turret top-- looks like the tc's periscope in front of his cupola, the ventilator, the loaders periscope, and the early indirect fire sight (2 post thingy), but is there something else up there?

it has the larger hull hatches w/ periscope cages (47 degree hull), anything up there in that area that might be different?

on the bogies, any differences in them, are they all the same? are the roadwheels all the same? anything different under the hull, any thing different at the rear engine access doors...

just things i would look at, look for things that might stand out, that type of thing. if you can get a few more shots for me that would be fine. but dont go out of your way for me. the pics would just satisfy my curiousities, my curiousities arent a priority... a few weeks ago, i forgot one very important thing about looking at armor that has been sitting-- it can still provide a service to nature-- nice place to find beehives! i opened an ammo bin on an M19 and discovered the hives forward elements, luckily i scooted and didnt have to deal with an assault.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:38 am
Post subject: Re: M4A1 at 4ID museum...

ah, turret top side, it is the MaDuece travel lock that i see in the upright position...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:35 pm
Post subject: Re: M4A1 at 4ID museum...

NNIIICE!!! For the other Shermanoholics out there, could those fittings around the periphery of the hull have been attachment points for supports for extended fenders? This tank kind of looks like it went through either the formal remanufacturing program or at least major depot upgrades. The early turret received a vision cupola and pedestal MG mount (hence the barrel travel clamp Shawn). The extra supports for the dust shields outboard of the aircleaners seem to be a fairly common addition, both from depot and field. Apparently thrown tracks could displace the shield and damage the aircleaners, so extra support was added. This tank also received the rear end "luggage rack" more commonly seen on later M4-series tanks. This tank still has a nice example of the "comb" device on the transmission cover (Jeff, the consensus is that the "comb" held brake cables, pulled through the bow MG port, to assist with shipping the tank). The modified M34 gun mount is interesting as one would suppose that a tank going through the remanufacturing program would have gotten a "proper" M34A1 mount (unless the earlier turret casting didn't lend itself to the change or the factory/depot was just short of M34A1 gun mounts that day).

Jeff, a nice old tank. Thanks for sharing the photos (and any others you care to add - one can't have "too many" Sherman photos).

Gary
Back to top
View user's profile
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:12 pm
Post subject: Re: M4A1 at 4ID museum...

so that is what we are called gary, shermanolohics? do i have to admit it (LOL)?
you are right gary, the bolts were for extended fenders, they match the locations and everything.

all this does is pose more questions, cause now i would really like to take a look in person. and i would like to see the interior...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:17 pm
Post subject: Re: M4A1 at 4ID museum...

and it also appears jeff that this particular lady, your "girl" if you will, has made it to the cover.


don greer illustrated this, made some changes and yet left in many of the same smaller "after the fact" details found on this A1...
very interesting...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:19 pm
Post subject: Re: M4A1 at 4ID museum...

okay, i will admit it. my name is shawn, and i am a shermanoholic.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
toadmanstankpictures
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 704

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:19 pm
Post subject: Re: M4A1 at 4ID museum...

Nice pics Jeff! This Sherman is a M4A1E9. At sometime in its life, probably during late WW II it was remanufactured. The remanufacturing included adding 4" spacers to the bogie mounting brackets to push them out. This was done so extended end connectors or "duckbills" could be put on both sides of the tracks. The small squares welded onto the hull are as Gary said for new fenders. The commander's vision cupola was usually included in the rebuild. The differential cover may be original as they weren't always changed during the rebuild. However, the bogies with upswept return roller arms are probably from the rebuild. Many of the rebuilds would've included a loader's hatch on the turret but in this case, none was added. The M34 gunshield with extension could be seen on quite a few remanufactured M4 types. There are a pair of remanufactured M4E9's in Florida with this set up.

The casting numbers you pulled are the various part numbers and foundry symbols. The "G" in the octagon is the symbol for American Steel Foundries in Granite City, IL.

Jeff, if you get a chance, take a few pics of the rear showing the idler wheel brackets. They would have been modified for the E9 conversion. Also, a pic or two of the lower hull near the suspension would be good. That way we can see if it is a early riveted or later welded type.

_________________
Chris "toadman" Hughes
www.toadmanstankpictures.com
www.cafepress.com/toad...ksandstuff
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:20 pm
Post subject: Re: M4A1 at 4ID museum...

Hi Shawn! Hi Folks!

- SHAWN

it has the larger hull hatches


I have to disagree with you Shawn. That vehicle looks like it has the earlier smaller type of hull hatchs. I am just not seeing the larger type which should be showing the hinges which stick up above the level of the hull.

My 2 cents.
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:45 pm
Post subject: Re: M4A1 at 4ID museum...

Are we all in agreement that this is an M4A1E9? I show the "G" standing for American Steel Foundries East St. Louis Works, Illinois. Is this the same place? I got this casting information from the following site that Kurt Laughlin has; web.inter.nl.net/users...oundry.htm .

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:02 am
Post subject: Re: M4A1 at 4ID museum...

- SFC_Jeff_Button
Are we all in agreement that this is an M4A1E9? I show the "G" standing for American Steel Foundries East St. Louis Works, Illinois. Is this the same place? I got this casting information from the following site that Kurt Laughlin has; web.inter.nl.net/users...oundry.htm .


Jeff I just looked at the Foundry Mark list you provided and it shows an E inside an octagon for East St Louis and a G for Granite City. Looking at mapquest they don't look like they were far apart but apparantly were run as seperate operations and had their own marks

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:13 am
Post subject: Re: M4A1 at 4ID museum...

You are correct, I looked at the wrong line. I have used this source quite a bit to help research old armor.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:41 am
Post subject: Re: M4A1 at 4ID museum...

yes, jeff i agree that that it is the M4A1E9, i see it now. does it have the larger drivers hatches. with a closer look i agree with you roy, it has the 60 degree hull with the smaller drivers hatches.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum