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Dubliner · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 94

Today's Quiz...

Was the vehicle below a Hollywood VISMOD (based on an existing chassis) or a purpose built studio Sdfz 251 replica?

The image is a screen shot from "Force 10 from Navarone" (1978) but it was also used in "A Bridge Too Far"(1977).

bsmart

I'ld guess that it is the Czech version (OT-810? from memory) that has shown up in recent years instead of M-3s with black crosses on them (ala Rat Patrol)

Dubliner · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 94

Extra credit if you correctly guess the current location of this prop....

Dubliner · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 94

Sorry Bob.... its not an OT-810. In 1977/78, all the OT-810s were still in Warsaw Pact service.

Most of "Force 10" was filmed in Yugoslavia. The JLA supplied the Ã¢â‚¬Å“GermanÃ¢â‚¬Â? T-34/85s and M3/M5 halftrack with a mockup quad-flak mount, also seen in Ã¢â‚¬Å“Cross of IronÃ¢â‚¬Â? (1977). The scene shown in the post above was not shot in Yugoslavia.

See below for a front view of the mystery halftrack...

SHAWN · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 31, 2006 Posts: 484

the same shots from Force 10, it isnt a German 251.
so you are saying a studio made it dubliner?

SHAWN · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 31, 2006 Posts: 484

a few shots of the tracks from ABTF...
same vehicle used for both films dubliner?

Dubliner · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 94

Shawn,

Thanks for posting the photos from "A Bridge Too Far." To answer your question, the prop was used in both movies.

I guess, I need to give another hint for this quiz. The vehicle in question is still around, but its appearance has been altered. If you been around for while you have most likely seen pictures of this vehicle in its present form on this or other AFV forums.

Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Folks!

Interesting Confused

It is NOT a WW II German 250 or 251 vehicle.
It is NOT a post war OT 810.

Why?
The 250, 251, and OT810 used three sets of over lapping road wheels with an idler wheel. That vehicle has four road wheels in line with the four road wheel acting as an idler.

The 250, 251, and OT810 used a type of track block with a center line set of drive teeth.
That vehicle has a double set of guides that run along the outside edge of the road wheels. Something like the track block see on the British Universal Carriers.

Check out that hub on the sprocket. It is way to big and sticks out way to far to be a German halftrack. That sprocket reminds me of the type found on the British Universal Carriers.

I think somebody took a number of parts from different AFVs along with some sheel metal and build up a vehicle that a quick glance would pass for a German 251.

My 2 cents. Razz

Sgt, Scouts Out!

SHAWN · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 31, 2006 Posts: 484

besides what roy pointed out, if you look at the frame and body, they dont look quite right. the vehicle is too wide, the engine deck it too high, the angles arent quite the same. it worked for the movie so hey...

Dubliner · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 94

Roy and Shawn are right...the vehicle is a real Frankenstein monster.

Roy, you are right about the track and drive sprocket. The vehicle was built by marring a truck frame with the chassis of a Universal Carrier. The running gear of the Universal Carrier was significantly altered for the vehicles first incarnation as an Sdfz 251, only the track and drive sprocket remained unchanged. At some point the running gear was restored to its original configuration, but thatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s when significant changes were made to the vehicleÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s body in order to represent another type of German halftrack.

So the first part of the quiz has been answered.

Now on to part II of the quiz.

Does anybody have guess as regards to the current configuration of this vehicle and its current location?

SHAWN · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 31, 2006 Posts: 484

has it been used recently in any films, etc.?

Dubliner · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 94

Hi Shawn,

The vehicle is on static display at a museum in the States, and in its current configuration it has been the bane of a number of German AFV purists.

Andre_Flener

Hi Dubliner,

well, I guess it's now 'representing' [!] either the FORD MAULTIER or the OPEL NEBELWERFER on display at the "WWII Victory Museum" in Auburn, IN:

(Source of both pix: panzergrendel's album)

I already saw both semitracks (the normal OPEL Maultier also included) at the defunct "Victory Memorial Museum" in Arlon, Belgium, where some doubts about their true origins were existing yet...

Dubliner, from which source did you learn that fact? And did I win, and what? Wink

Andre_Flener

Small update/correction:

Apparently, the normal Opel Maultier (another not entirely correct recreation - look at the lower door corners...) made it 'over the Atlantic' as well:

(Belgium)

SHAWN · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 31, 2006 Posts: 484

hello, thanks andre. i was thinking it was more along the lines of the other one that the museum has, the panzerwerfer 42 thingy that they have. the cab and hood, etc look to be the same as the movies still. they have more than two "maultiers". i was there in 2003 when they first unloaded most of that stuff... i havent been able to get back since. either they have a third one or they have repainted the gray one to the khakhi. they have alot of vismod stuff, or stuff that had been worked on if you will.
they didnt have them on display, but i got to see them, they had 2 of the mercedes touring car/trucks that had belonged to someone in the nazi party. they have them displayed now correct? one belonged to Goering, no? i really need to get back to the museum...
shawn

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