±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 369
Total: 369
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Member Screenshots
03: Home
04: Home
05: Photo Gallery
06: Home
07: Home
08: Member Screenshots
09: Home
10: Downloads
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Member Screenshots
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Downloads
20: Member Screenshots
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: News Archive
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Home
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Home
40: Home
41: Member Screenshots
42: Home
43: Home
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Downloads
48: Member Screenshots
49: Home
50: Home
51: Home
52: Home
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Member Screenshots
56: Home
57: Member Screenshots
58: Member Screenshots
59: Home
60: Home
61: Member Screenshots
62: Community Forums
63: Downloads
64: Home
65: Home
66: Member Screenshots
67: Member Screenshots
68: Photo Gallery
69: Member Screenshots
70: Downloads
71: Statistics
72: Member Screenshots
73: Member Screenshots
74: News Archive
75: News Archive
76: Member Screenshots
77: Photo Gallery
78: Member Screenshots
79: Photo Gallery
80: Photo Gallery
81: Home
82: Home
83: News Archive
84: Member Screenshots
85: Member Screenshots
86: Downloads
87: News Archive
88: Downloads
89: Photo Gallery
90: Home
91: Community Forums
92: Photo Gallery
93: Home
94: Your Account
95: Photo Gallery
96: Downloads
97: Home
98: Statistics
99: Downloads
100: Photo Gallery
101: Member Screenshots
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Community Forums
106: Home
107: Home
108: Member Screenshots
109: Home
110: Home
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: News Archive
119: Photo Gallery
120: Home
121: Downloads
122: Home
123: Statistics
124: Home
125: News Archive
126: Member Screenshots
127: Community Forums
128: Member Screenshots
129: Downloads
130: Downloads
131: Community Forums
132: Photo Gallery
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Home
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Member Screenshots
142: News
143: Community Forums
144: Home
145: Home
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Downloads
149: Downloads
150: Member Screenshots
151: News Archive
152: Home
153: Member Screenshots
154: Home
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: Home
158: Home
159: Home
160: Member Screenshots
161: Home
162: News Archive
163: Member Screenshots
164: Member Screenshots
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Home
168: Home
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Home
179: Home
180: News Archive
181: Member Screenshots
182: Home
183: Photo Gallery
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Statistics
187: Community Forums
188: Your Account
189: Photo Gallery
190: Photo Gallery
191: Community Forums
192: Home
193: Community Forums
194: Your Account
195: Member Screenshots
196: Member Screenshots
197: Community Forums
198: Home
199: Community Forums
200: Home
201: Home
202: Photo Gallery
203: Member Screenshots
204: Home
205: Member Screenshots
206: Home
207: Home
208: Home
209: Home
210: Home
211: Home
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Statistics
219: Home
220: Home
221: Member Screenshots
222: News Archive
223: Home
224: Member Screenshots
225: Community Forums
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Downloads
230: Community Forums
231: Member Screenshots
232: Downloads
233: Home
234: Downloads
235: Downloads
236: Downloads
237: Home
238: Member Screenshots
239: Home
240: Home
241: Member Screenshots
242: Home
243: Photo Gallery
244: Member Screenshots
245: Home
246: Community Forums
247: Home
248: Statistics
249: Member Screenshots
250: Home
251: Home
252: Home
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Home
258: News
259: Home
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Home
264: News Archive
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Home
268: Home
269: Member Screenshots
270: Home
271: Home
272: Home
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Home
276: Home
277: Home
278: Home
279: Home
280: Member Screenshots
281: Home
282: Home
283: Community Forums
284: News Archive
285: Community Forums
286: Member Screenshots
287: Home
288: Home
289: Home
290: Home
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Photo Gallery
294: Community Forums
295: Home
296: Home
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Photo Gallery
300: News Archive
301: Downloads
302: Downloads
303: Member Screenshots
304: Home
305: Home
306: Community Forums
307: Downloads
308: Home
309: Photo Gallery
310: Community Forums
311: Home
312: Community Forums
313: Home
314: Home
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Home
318: Home
319: Home
320: Home
321: Home
322: Home
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Home
326: Home
327: Downloads
328: Community Forums
329: Home
330: Home
331: Home
332: Photo Gallery
333: Statistics
334: Home
335: Home
336: Home
337: Home
338: Home
339: Downloads
340: Home
341: Home
342: Member Screenshots
343: Community Forums
344: Your Account
345: Home
346: Home
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Home
350: Member Screenshots
351: Community Forums
352: Home
353: Community Forums
354: Home
355: Downloads
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Home
359: Photo Gallery
360: Home
361: Community Forums
362: Home
363: Community Forums
364: News Archive
365: Member Screenshots
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:51 am
Post subject: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

I dont just post rare old armor, I post rare "new" armor as well! Per the article below, there are only 44 of these in the U.S. inventory. There were these 6 in the 36th ENG BDE, 4th ID motor pool and 6 more in a motorpool next door. When I was here in 2000 with 3-66th Armor, 4th ID, civilians brought one to our motor pool as a "demo" and it was pretty neat. Now they are actually stationed here. I haven't seen any in the 1st Cav area motor pools but I'd bet they have some too. I was in this motor pool to photograph an M4A3 that I cant seem to find a serial number for. I purchased some sandpaper this afternoon however and that serial wont be hidden long! Below is some info on the Wolverine.

The M104 Wolverine Heavy Assault Bridge is an armored combat engineering vehicle designed to provide deployable bridge capability for units engaged in military operations.

For over a quarter of a century the US Army has made use of armored bridgelaying vehicles based on the M60/M48 Patton series of tanks. In recent years, however, the Army discovered that the aging M60 AVLB (Armored Vehicle Launched Bridge) was too slow to keep up with the M1 Abrams during field maneuvers. Additionally, the M1 was so heavy that it could safely cross the AVLB's bridge only at a very slow speed.

Program development for a new armored bridgelaying vehicle began in 1983, and by 1994 General Dynamics Land Systems had been awarded a contract. The first prototype vehicles were being tested by 1996, and the first production models were delivered to the Army by 2003.

Because the Wolverine is essentially an M1A2 SEP tank with bridgelaying gear instead of a turret it shares virtually all of the parent vehicle's speed, mobility, survivability, and automotive components. This commonality was a key design factor in the Wolverine's development. The Wolverine also features an advanced communication package designed to keep it in contact with local field commanders. However, the vehicle itself is completely unarmed.

The Wolverine is operated by two crewmen who sit within the hull. Both crewmen have access to the bridging controls, while the bridge itself is carried in two sections above the hull. Once a bridging site is chosen the vehicle securely anchors itself in place with a spade. The two sections of the bridge are joined together, and then the entire bridge is extended across the obstacle and dropped into place. During launch the crewmen have the ability to make minor corrections if needed. Once operations are complete the Wolverine drives across the bridge and retrieves it from the other side simply by reversing the process. The bridge can be launched in under 5 minutes or retrieved in less than 10, all without the crewmen ever leaving the safety of their vehicle.

Once launched, the 26 meter bridge can support a 70 ton vehicle moving at 16 km/h. The Wolverine allows even the heaviest of vehicles to cross craters, ditches, and even partially damaged bridges at combat speed. This mobility is a decisive advantage for armored units.

To date the U.S. Army has received 44 Wolverines, which have been distributed to a few select engineer units. The Army had originally intended to purchase 465 vehicles, however budget cuts and the recent shift in philosophy toward a lighter fighting force have cast the future of the Wolverine program in doubt. Currently the Army does not plan to purchase any more Wolverines, but it has reserved the right to restart production in the future if necessary.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:50 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

"The M104 Wolverine Heavy Assault Bridge is an armored combat engineering vehicle designed to provide deployable bridge capability for units engaged in military operations.
...
However, the vehicle itself is completely unarmed."

Yikes!! That's got to change. If this is such a rare bird, the opposing forces are going to know it too. Their troops will do what they can to harass or attack it. Even a .50 in a protected remote controlled weapons pod would be an improvement over nothing.
Back to top
View user's profile
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:54 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

I agree, I was surprised to see that it wasn't armed at all. Especially since its such a high-dollar vehicle. I wouldn't want to crew this.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:32 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

Lets face it the M9 ACE is the same. I was amused to read in a combat report the following description of it 'one man, alone, unarmed'

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:57 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

Hi Folks!

The proto-type M-48 AVLB had two cuplo mounted M2 50 cal machine guns. The production versions didn't have them. The M-60 AVLB were also unarmed.

That vehicle should never be sent out by its self. There should be more than enough firepower around it to ensure the crew only has to work on getting the bridge down in the right spot so over vehicles can cross ASAP.

Jeff, super thanks for this set of photos. I have hopes of some day trying to scratch build a Wolverine sense none of the model companies will most likly never do one.

It is my understand that in place of buying more Wolverines, the Army funded a program to upgrade the MLC 60 bridges on the M-48/60 AVLBs to a MLC of 70. Much cheaper to buy upgraded folding bridges than rebuild a M-1 into a Wolverine.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:14 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

It is my understand that in place of buying more Wolverines, the Army funded a program to upgrade the MLC 60 bridges on the M-48/60 AVLBs to a MLC of 70. Much cheaper to buy upgraded folding bridges than rebuild a M-1 into a Wolverine.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!


But you loose the advantage of commonality and have to continue stocking parts in the system for the older vehicles that you would not otherwise have to have.

I can see and advantage to modifying the older AVLBs in the short term but as there are extra M1 chassis in the inventory I would think that converting some to support vehicles such as AVLBs, recovery vehicles and engineering vehicles would make sense.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:28 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

But there is commonality with the old AVLB's, it's called the Hercules M88A2 and they have a very good track record. We also have plenty of M88A1's too. If you look closely at the M60 AVLB/AVLM systems they are now using M88 components when rebuilt. Much cheaper than converting old M1 hulls, Also cheaper to operate. BTW, the Wolverine uses the old M1 hull, just like the SEP's. One automotive difference is the the hydraulic pump is driven off the angle drive of the transmission and the generator was moved to the Auxillary Gear Box from what I saw in 98. What the Wolverine has is speed, but with the current fight we are in it's a moot point.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:57 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I can see and advantage to modifying the older AVLBs in the short term but as there are extra M1 chassis in the inventory I would think that converting some to support vehicles such as AVLBs, recovery vehicles and engineering vehicles would make sense.


I have to agree with that Bob. However the problem is a lack of funds. The Wolverine and the Grizzle are programs that were cut to free up funding for the Stryker FOVs and has yet to be restored.

It's like Joe D said, their are just not needed in the current fight. Look at the M1117 ASV. It was also one of those programs that was cut to free up funding for the Stryker FOVs. If's fund has been restored some because they are needed.

This is another one of those things where funding is the controlling factor and not common sense.
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:05 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I can see and advantage to modifying the older AVLBs in the short term but as there are extra M1 chassis in the inventory I would think that converting some to support vehicles such as AVLBs, recovery vehicles and engineering vehicles would make sense.


I have to agree with that Bob. However the problem is a lack of funds. The Wolverine and the Grizzle are programs that were cut to free up funding for the Stryker FOVs and has yet to be restored.

It's like Joe D said, their are just not needed in the current fight. Look at the M1117 ASV. It was also one of those programs that was cut to free up funding for the Stryker FOVs. If's fund has been restored some because they are needed.

This is another one of those things where funding is the controlling factor and not common sense.
Sgt, Scouts out!


I think there is very little that is not controlled by short term funding issues.

I'm noticing a trend that we saw in the 60s where long term programs are being sacrificed to pay for growing operational costs while trying to stay within lower 'acceptable' budgets. Crying or Very sad I remember living in the aftermath of that on the flightline in the mid 70s with not enough parts because although they bought a new fighter ( the F-15) they scimped on the supporting kit to hold the cost of the program down.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:19 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I think there is very little that is not controlled by short term funding issues.

I'm noticing a trend that we saw in the 60s where long term programs are being sacrificed to pay for growing operational costs while trying to stay within lower 'acceptable' budgets. Crying or Very sad I remember living in the aftermath of that on the flightline in the mid 70s with not enough parts because although they bought a new fighter ( the F-15) they scimped on the supporting kit to hold the cost of the program down.


The 1970s! The last half was hard on all of DOD. I remember reading about new F-16s coming off the production line in Ft. Worth. The Air Force would install an engine, send the aircraft up for a test flight and then remove the engine so it could installed in the next aircraft. The Army was putting a lot of it's available funding into the new Abrams/Bradley vehicles and there was very little funds for very much of any thing else. God help the AFV Crewman who lost a tool needed to work on his vehicle because the supply room didn't have any funds to buy replacement tools.

Hell, costs and the need from funds for other programs is the only reason the Navy has retired the F-14 Tomcats. I have heard, but I have not confired it, that the S-3 Vikings have been or are being retired, or there is a plan to retire them for the same reason.

All this is an outstanding example of why the DOD doesn't always buy good things at the right time. Sad
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum