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Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:59 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

I found a story in the French language newspaper La Press, from Montreal, that had the usual retired Colonel blabbermouths reinforcing the military's news. The article translated very baddly with Babblefish, so I won't repeat it.

The essence is that one squadron of 15 gun tanks with about 120 pers from Edmonton were on exercise in Wainwright now, and had orders to get to Kandahar on the double. No announcements on rail/road/sea/airlift, but knowledgible people said if the Americans/Brits/Aussies could spare C17 airframe hours, then this was a go. Otherwise the AN124 was the next option.

The article went on to say how a rifle company from 3rd Bn Royal 22nd Regiment (The Vandoos) from Valcartier had been sent to Wainwright too and were awaiting orders.

In the small army reality where Canada exists, we have three brigades with 1 light and 2 mechanized battalions each (plus the Supply, Med, Engr, Sigs, Arty and Armour), and the burden is passed roto to roto. The rifle companies are slim at the best of times, so HQ is constantly borrowing platoons, specialists and in-filling with Reservists on short-contracts. Each roto is a battlegroup built around a 3 company infantry battalion. Edmonton's 1 CMBG has just came out, Petawawa's 2 CMBG is in AF now, and 5ieme GBMC (in French of course) is doing workups. If the lead Vandoo company can communicate back their lessons learned and drills, the third roto will be less bumpy and the Taliban won't get a breather.
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Al_Bowie
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:34 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

The Scimitar is:


Why didn't you say that in the first place! I had forgotten CVR(T) was a vehicle type name for the Scorpion later upgraded to the Scimitar recon tanks.
No longer confuzed on this one. Smile
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Roy, the Scorpion served alongside the Scimitar in the CVR role until OH&S precluded the early retirement of the Scorpions in the early 90's due to dangerous gas built up in the turrets. The Turrets were removed and the hulls upgraded with the addition of the Fox Armoured car turrets from the obsolete and retired Fox Armoured Car. The resultant vehicle is called the SABRE and has similar features to the Scimitar being armed with the same 30 mm Rarden Cannon.
The vehicle in the video IMHO is a Scimitar as most Sabres serve in the recce companies of Mech Inf units.
Cheers
AL
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:02 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

Hi Al! Hi Folks!

Thanks Al, my AFV references are not very informative when it comes to the CVR(T) family of vehicles.

I always thought the US Army could have made it's armored scouts job better if they had bought some of those vehicles. In many ways the dropped XM800(T) vehicle had a lot of general ideas like the British CVR(T) FOVs.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Al_Bowie
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

Roy, It's better than what we made do with for Recce work; We used the 113 family. Not only that we grafted the Scorpion turret onto a 113A1 and that abysmal T50 turret as well. RAAC always wanted the CVR family but given the size of our military we had to make do with the 113 and now the ASLAV.
I had a passionate love/hate relationship with the Beasts (Scorpion/113 - MRV) when I was with 2 Cav. I wasn't sorry to see them retired.
Cheers
Al
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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

- Al_Bowie
Not only that we grafted the Scorpion turret onto a 113A1 and that abysmal T50 turret as well.


You had to love the low pressue 76.2mm main gun. A sharp eyeball could follow the shell in flight. But the Serbs and Bosnians were quite respectful of the Cougars in Bosnia.
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J.McGillivray
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:14 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
I found a story in the French language newspaper La Press, from Montreal, that had the usual retired Colonel blabbermouths reinforcing the military's news. The article translated very baddly with Babblefish, so I won't repeat it.

The essence is that one squadron of 15 gun tanks with about 120 pers from Edmonton were on exercise in Wainwright now, and had orders to get to Kandahar on the double. No announcements on rail/road/sea/airlift, but knowledgible people said if the Americans/Brits/Aussies could spare C17 airframe hours, then this was a go. Otherwise the AN124 was the next option.

The article went on to say how a rifle company from 3rd Bn Royal 22nd Regiment (The Vandoos) from Valcartier had been sent to Wainwright too and were awaiting orders.

In the small army reality where Canada exists, we have three brigades with 1 light and 2 mechanized battalions each (plus the Supply, Med, Engr, Sigs, Arty and Armour), and the burden is passed roto to roto. The rifle companies are slim at the best of times, so HQ is constantly borrowing platoons, specialists and in-filling with Reservists on short-contracts. Each roto is a battlegroup built around a 3 company infantry battalion. Edmonton's 1 CMBG has just came out, Petawawa's 2 CMBG is in AF now, and 5ieme GBMC (in French of course) is doing workups. If the lead Vandoo company can communicate back their lessons learned and drills, the third roto will be less bumpy and the Taliban won't get a breather.


The Brigade from Valcartier with 3 R22R is only due to go to A-stan in August 2007. My son is a reservist and will be part of that Roto. They will only start their pre-deployment training on the 18th of this month. The next rotation after the one from Petawawa will be coming from Gagetown and will be deploying in February 2007.

On the news a few days ago it stated that 120 troops from Valcartier who were to go to A-stan next summer will be going there in a few weeks instead.
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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

From a news story today:

Tanks and 200 more soldiers going to Afghanistan

Updated Fri. Sep. 15 2006 3:14 PM ET

David Akin, CTV.ca News

OTTAWA -- Canada will send tanks and about 200 more soldiers to bolster its presence in southern Afghanistan, an initiative which the military described as "a normal practice" for the kind of situation Canadian soldiers are now facing there.

General Rick Hillier, chief of Canada's defence staff, announced this afternoon that the Forces are strengthening reconstruction and stabilization efforts in Afghanistan.

After getting final approval from Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Hillier has decided to send the following immediately to Afghanistan:

* An infantry company from Valcartier, Quebec
* A Leopard tank squadron from Edmonton to better protect and enable the Canadian Forces to fight in those areas where Taliban forces have established well-coordinated and determined defences;
* Military engineers to manage reconstruction and development projects and,
* A counter-mortar capability to locate Taliban forces that are targeting Canadian Forces installations with indirect mortar fire.

The reinforcements are being sent at the request of the Canadian commanders in Afghanistan. Once the additional forces are in Afghanistan, Canada will have about 2,500 troops in the region. Canadian troops will make up well over 10 per cent of all NATO troops in Afghanistan.

"Canadian soldiers face a complex and very demanding mission in Afghanistan," the Department of National Defence says in a statement. "The situation on the ground in Afghanistan recently shifted due to the changing tactics of the Taliban operating in the southern region, where Canadian and NATO troops are seeking to stabilize areas.

"Increased capabilities are needed to provide Task Force Afghanistan Commanders with the most effective tools they required to give them more options in the field of operations. These resources provide greater mobility, protection of our troops, flexibility and precision firepower."
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Jason_Bobrowich
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:35 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

"Military engineers to manage reconstruction and development projects"

I got a feeling that we are going to see some Badger AEVs and maybe and a Beaver AVLB over in Afghanistan too.
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:25 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

Yesterday it was on the news that the local Dutch commander (a colonel) was not so optimistic about the mission overthere. He called it ''mopping the floor with the watertap open'' and called for a better and more active control by the paki's at their border.

They kill talibans and they keep pouring in from Pakistan were they are replacing the dead ones in A-stan.

Of course the highest general in his desk in The Hague, denied this and called the mission a succes.

Sometimes.......
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Al_Bowie
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:56 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
- Al_Bowie
Not only that we grafted the Scorpion turret onto a 113A1 and that abysmal T50 turret as well.


You had to love the low pressue 76.2mm main gun. A sharp eyeball could follow the shell in flight. But the Serbs and Bosnians were quite respectful of the Cougars in Bosnia.



Yor right, the 76 was a fairly useful weapon. A great support weapon but not a tank killer!. As part of the Scorpion CVRT It would have been a great recce vehicle but mated with an M113, well....
As for the T50 it was an improvement over the pintle. Being 6'2" and 105 kg I had a bit of problem with the cramped and dysfunctional layout of the LRV T50 layout (50/30 combo). If you forgot to pull the cosking stud out of the 50 you ended up with bruised ribs at best.
One of my funniest experiencesin the Army was to watch the (then) Defence Minister - Kim "Bomber" Beasley (A large rotund and Jolly fellow - now leader of the opposition) try and fit into one of our turrets during a press shoot on K89. The poor driver, just trying to be helpful suggested he may wish to use the cargo hatch (in all sincerity) which reduced the onlookers, press and military into uncontrollable sobs and spurts of restrained laughter. Bomber was not impressed and the driver wore his wrath via his ADC. I lost what little (and believe me it was little to start with) respect I had left for this sorry excuse for a DM after that. We all had a good laugh at him though.
Al
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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:05 pm
Post subject: Re: the truth

- L.Delsing
Yesterday it was on the news that the local Dutch commander (a colonel) was not so optimistic about the mission overthere. He called it ''mopping the floor with the watertap open'' and called for a better and more active control by the paki's at their border.

They kill talibans and they keep pouring in from Pakistan were they are replacing the dead ones in A-stan.

Of course the highest general in his desk in The Hague, denied this and called the mission a succes.

Sometimes.......


All of a sudden I feel sorry for the Dutch troops who have to go outside the wire. Their commander doesn't have courage or faith in the mission. Demoralizing enough to not want to go patrol, go do reconstruction tasks or train the locals. No casualties no risk no need.

The Colonel made the mistake of being quoted speaking one truth of many, but it wasn't his job to say that particular truth. The official truth is the one published in official documents, statements and speeches. Usually supported by debate in the House and uttered by the appropriate Ministers and government leaders. The other truth is the one known by the soldiers on the ground, making decisions daily. The fact that there are large "refugee" camps just across the border in Pakistan, should be a clue to one of those truths. Fortunately Canadian politicians, including the Minister of National Defence, have spoken about Pakistan's need to control its borders and control militants.
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J.McGillivray
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

Operation Medusa a 'significant' success: NATO
Updated Sun. Sep. 17 2006 1:44 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
A top NATO general says the alliance's massive, two-week-long anti-Taliban offensive in southern Afghanistan has been "successfully completed."
Lieut.-Gen. David Richards, head of the 20,000 NATO-led force, hailed Operation Medusa in the insurgent stronghold of southern Afghanistan as a "significant success.''
Reconstruction and development efforts will soon begin in three southern areas, said Richards, after insurgents were forced to abandon their positions.
Operation Medusa was launched on Sept. 2 with the aim of clearing out Taliban fighters from a farming district near Kandahar.
NATO said hundreds of militants were killed and many were forced out of the district as a result of that operation.
"This has been a significant success and clearly shows the capability that Afghan, NATO and coalition forces have when they operate together," Richards told a news conference in London.
Convoy attacked
NATO's announcement comes on the same day three Canadian soldiers were slightly wounded and an Afghan civilian was killed when a suicide bomber attacked a military convoy in southern Afghanistan.
The bomber, who also died in the blast, plowed his vehicle packed with explosives into the Canadian convoy west of Kandahar city.
At least eight other civilians were also wounded in the attack. NATO is not releasing the identities of the injured soldiers.
A Canadian military vehicle was slightly damaged in the attack and the bomber's vehicle was destroyed, a reporter with the Associated Press said.
Canada has about 2,200 troops in southern Afghanistan. But that number is about to get higher as Canada prepares to send an additional 450 soldiers and up to 15 tanks to assist in the mission.
"First of all, we want to make sure they're well prepared, well trained and ready to go off to Afghanistan before we send them. So many of the soldiers won't go until later on this fall," Gen. Rick Hillier, chief of defence staff, said Sunday on CTV's Question Period.
"While we're sending those soldiers in, we're reducing the force in place now because we're handing over command of region south, on or about (the first of )November. . . . That means we'll top out at about 2,500 soldiers all together."
Canadians are 'stretched'
With the infusion of troops, Canadians will make up well over 10 per cent of the NATO contingent in Afghanistan.
NATO's top commander last week renewed an appeal for allies to urgently provide up to 2,500 troops for the battle with the relentless insurgents in southern Afghanistan.
Hillier said today that Canadians serving in the region are "stretched" in their resources, yet maintained that the military can "sustain this mission."
He conceded, however, that "one of the things we have to do is use our people -- all the men and women in uniform, air land and sea -- much better."
"In the past decade, I believe that we've done 100 percent of our deployed operations probably using not more than 45 to 50 per cent of the people in uniform. Now what we're going to do is use them all.
"There are many jobs, many tasks and many parts of the mission that don't have to be done by soldiers trained in combat operations."
One way Hillier said this would be accomplished is to address the often-heard complaint that there are too many people fighting the war from behind "desks."
"We're taking people from all those desks right across Canadian forces, out of every headquarters, out of every structured organization, and we're going to use them to sustain the operation," said Hillier, adding that troops will be rotated more efficiently.
"We'll use every single man and woman across the Canadian forces to the extent that we possibly can, better than we've done before, to sustain that mission and still keep the men and women in the forces healthy."
www.ctv.ca/servlet/Art...TopStories
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