±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 398
Total: 398
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Photo Gallery
03: Photo Gallery
04: Downloads
05: Member Screenshots
06: Statistics
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Member Screenshots
11: Member Screenshots
12: Member Screenshots
13: Member Screenshots
14: Photo Gallery
15: Photo Gallery
16: Photo Gallery
17: Photo Gallery
18: Member Screenshots
19: Member Screenshots
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Downloads
23: Community Forums
24: Member Screenshots
25: Member Screenshots
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: Downloads
29: Photo Gallery
30: Home
31: Home
32: Photo Gallery
33: Photo Gallery
34: Member Screenshots
35: Home
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Photo Gallery
39: Photo Gallery
40: Home
41: Member Screenshots
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Member Screenshots
45: Photo Gallery
46: Member Screenshots
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Photo Gallery
51: Downloads
52: Downloads
53: Photo Gallery
54: Member Screenshots
55: Member Screenshots
56: Photo Gallery
57: Member Screenshots
58: Member Screenshots
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Member Screenshots
62: Downloads
63: Community Forums
64: Photo Gallery
65: Downloads
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Photo Gallery
70: Photo Gallery
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Photo Gallery
74: Photo Gallery
75: News Archive
76: Downloads
77: Home
78: Photo Gallery
79: Photo Gallery
80: Downloads
81: Community Forums
82: Downloads
83: Member Screenshots
84: Member Screenshots
85: Home
86: Photo Gallery
87: Downloads
88: Photo Gallery
89: Community Forums
90: Downloads
91: Home
92: News Archive
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Downloads
98: Statistics
99: News Archive
100: Downloads
101: Member Screenshots
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Member Screenshots
105: Community Forums
106: Home
107: Home
108: Photo Gallery
109: Home
110: Downloads
111: Community Forums
112: Member Screenshots
113: Photo Gallery
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Member Screenshots
117: Member Screenshots
118: Member Screenshots
119: Member Screenshots
120: Community Forums
121: Member Screenshots
122: Member Screenshots
123: Member Screenshots
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Member Screenshots
127: Community Forums
128: Photo Gallery
129: Photo Gallery
130: Member Screenshots
131: Member Screenshots
132: Photo Gallery
133: Member Screenshots
134: Photo Gallery
135: Photo Gallery
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Downloads
142: Photo Gallery
143: Photo Gallery
144: Member Screenshots
145: Photo Gallery
146: Statistics
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Member Screenshots
151: Photo Gallery
152: Photo Gallery
153: Member Screenshots
154: Community Forums
155: Photo Gallery
156: Downloads
157: Downloads
158: Photo Gallery
159: Member Screenshots
160: Photo Gallery
161: Photo Gallery
162: Downloads
163: Member Screenshots
164: News Archive
165: Member Screenshots
166: Community Forums
167: News Archive
168: Photo Gallery
169: Member Screenshots
170: Member Screenshots
171: Community Forums
172: Photo Gallery
173: Photo Gallery
174: Photo Gallery
175: Photo Gallery
176: Photo Gallery
177: Member Screenshots
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Photo Gallery
181: Downloads
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Member Screenshots
188: Member Screenshots
189: Photo Gallery
190: Photo Gallery
191: Member Screenshots
192: Home
193: Home
194: Member Screenshots
195: Photo Gallery
196: Member Screenshots
197: Home
198: Photo Gallery
199: Photo Gallery
200: Member Screenshots
201: Photo Gallery
202: Home
203: Home
204: Statistics
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Photo Gallery
208: Photo Gallery
209: Photo Gallery
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Downloads
214: Member Screenshots
215: Photo Gallery
216: Photo Gallery
217: Member Screenshots
218: News Archive
219: Photo Gallery
220: Member Screenshots
221: Photo Gallery
222: Photo Gallery
223: Home
224: Member Screenshots
225: Your Account
226: Downloads
227: Member Screenshots
228: Photo Gallery
229: Home
230: Photo Gallery
231: Photo Gallery
232: Member Screenshots
233: Photo Gallery
234: Member Screenshots
235: Photo Gallery
236: Photo Gallery
237: Community Forums
238: Member Screenshots
239: Member Screenshots
240: Photo Gallery
241: Member Screenshots
242: Home
243: Photo Gallery
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Photo Gallery
247: Photo Gallery
248: Photo Gallery
249: Photo Gallery
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Photo Gallery
253: Community Forums
254: Member Screenshots
255: Member Screenshots
256: Community Forums
257: Home
258: Home
259: Member Screenshots
260: Statistics
261: Home
262: Photo Gallery
263: Member Screenshots
264: Photo Gallery
265: News Archive
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Downloads
269: Photo Gallery
270: Photo Gallery
271: Photo Gallery
272: Member Screenshots
273: Photo Gallery
274: Photo Gallery
275: Member Screenshots
276: Home
277: Downloads
278: Photo Gallery
279: Home
280: Member Screenshots
281: Statistics
282: Downloads
283: Downloads
284: Member Screenshots
285: Home
286: Photo Gallery
287: Community Forums
288: Member Screenshots
289: Home
290: Photo Gallery
291: Photo Gallery
292: Member Screenshots
293: Photo Gallery
294: Photo Gallery
295: Downloads
296: Community Forums
297: Member Screenshots
298: Photo Gallery
299: Home
300: Home
301: Home
302: Photo Gallery
303: Member Screenshots
304: Member Screenshots
305: Community Forums
306: Photo Gallery
307: Photo Gallery
308: Member Screenshots
309: Downloads
310: Photo Gallery
311: Photo Gallery
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Photo Gallery
318: Member Screenshots
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Member Screenshots
322: Member Screenshots
323: Home
324: Member Screenshots
325: Photo Gallery
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Home
329: Photo Gallery
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Member Screenshots
333: Photo Gallery
334: Photo Gallery
335: Downloads
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Photo Gallery
339: Member Screenshots
340: Photo Gallery
341: Member Screenshots
342: Community Forums
343: Downloads
344: Member Screenshots
345: Home
346: Community Forums
347: Photo Gallery
348: Community Forums
349: Member Screenshots
350: Photo Gallery
351: Member Screenshots
352: Photo Gallery
353: Photo Gallery
354: Member Screenshots
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Community Forums
358: Photo Gallery
359: Member Screenshots
360: Member Screenshots
361: Statistics
362: Member Screenshots
363: Member Screenshots
364: Member Screenshots
365: Photo Gallery
366: Home
367: Photo Gallery
368: Statistics
369: Downloads
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Member Screenshots
373: Community Forums
374: Home
375: Member Screenshots
376: Photo Gallery
377: Photo Gallery
378: Downloads
379: Photo Gallery
380: Member Screenshots
381: Photo Gallery
382: Your Account
383: Downloads
384: Member Screenshots
385: Photo Gallery
386: Community Forums
387: Downloads
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: News Archive
391: Member Screenshots
392: Photo Gallery
393: Photo Gallery
394: Statistics
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Home
398: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
sherman 105mm
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Sundrtonge
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:55 pm
Post subject: sherman 105mm

Hi,

new to the board. I was wondering if anyone here might possibly have any technical data on the sherman 105mm, specifically the gun its ammo, its HE or possible AP performance, range of the weapon useage of the weapon (i.e. direct, indirect etc) etc.

No i dont have the Hunnicutt book as of yet, a bit pricey right now for me. But as I mentioned in the previous post I think when I get a chance I will nominate it and the other Hunnicutt books (if I can get the ISBN #'s) for digital reprinting so that at least there would be a chance of them becomming available even if the quality wouldnt be a great.

thanks,
-Dave
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:31 am
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

Welcome Aboard

The 105mm in the Sherman was ballistically compatable with thestandard M2 (later called the M101) 105mm howitzer. The ammunition consisted of the standard selectionof rounds that the Field Artillery 105mm had. It was capable of both direct and indirect fire in fact there racks on them to hold the aiming stakes required to set up the gun postion for Fire Direction Center control.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:56 am
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

Some quick remarks on the AP performance you requested...

1) the 105mm HEAT shell could penetrate a Panther's glacis at 500 yds - based on US firing tests at Isigny, France in the summer of 1944.

2) to modify the above - the 105mm howitzer M4 used in the M4s and M4A3s with 105 mm Howitzers was basically set up as a field artillery weapon. It did not have a semi-automatic breech as most tank guns do (the semi-auto breech opens at the end of the recoil stroke and ejects the empty casing, allowing a faster reload). The original production 105mm armed medium tanks also did not have power turret traverse. These add to to a tank that might work in ambush, but watch out if you miss that first shot!
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:11 am
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

Hi Dave! Hi Folks!

- Sundrtonge

Hi, new to the board.

Welcome to the group!

- Sundrtonge

I was wondering if anyone here might possibly have any technical data on the sherman 105mm, specifically the gun its ammo, its HE or possible AP performance, range of the weapon useage of the weapon (i.e. direct, indirect etc) etc.


Here is some of what you are looking for:
105mm howitzer M4 in mount M52
Traverse manuel on early vehicles, later hydraulic power added
Elevation +35 to -10 degrees
Firing rate: 8 rounds per minute
Vehicle could carry 66 rounds of 105 mm ammo.
Ammo was semifixed, variable charge except for the HEAT M67 round
M67 HEAT-T shell
M60 WP smoke shell
M84 HC BE shell (My note: some type of smoke round)
M1 HE shell
Max range:
M1 at max charge 12,205 yards
M67 8,590 yards
M60 12,150 yards
M84 12,205 yards
Armor pentration: M67 HEAT shell, 0 degrees obliquity 4.0 inches at any range.

- Sundrtonge

I think when I get a chance I will nominate it ....for digital reprinting so that at least there would be a chance of them becomming available even if the quality wouldnt be a great.


I have one book that was done by digital reprinting. "On Point" by the Association of the U.S. Army (AUSA) printed by the Naval Institute Press. AUSA was in a rush to get that book out and elected to go with digital printing because it was faster.

Many of the maps are nothing but dark blobs. Many of the photos are very dark and it is almost impossible to pick out much detail. For example, photos of individuals. You can not make out their faces. As for vehicles, you can see the outline, but details of the vehicles are dark spots. The printed word is great. But most of the photos are just wasted pages. NO, it is not a problem with the original photos and maps. After buy the book, I ran acrossed a copy on the internet of the report the book is based on. The photos and maps in the internet copy are clear and not dark reproductions.

If that is an example of the quailty of digital reprinting (another member once told us that a digital reprint of Hunnicutt's book would be a waste of money) then I would also say, don't waste you money unless you can inspect the book first to insure the photos are OK.

Spot report on the 105mm howitzer and my 2 cents on digital printing of photos.
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JWB2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:14 am
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

When (what year) was that digital printing done? Nowadays digital printing can be extremely high quality.
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:18 am
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

- Roy_A_Lingle


Many of the maps are nothing but dark blobs. Many of the photos are very dark and it is almost impossible to pick out much detail. For example, photos of individuals. You can not make out their faces. As for vehicles, you can see the outline, but details of the vehicles are dark spots. The printed word is great. But most of the photos are just wasted pages. NO, it is not a problem with the original photos and maps. After buy the book, I ran acrossed a copy on the internet of the report the book is based on. The photos and maps in the internet copy are clear and not dark reproductions.


Sounds more like crappy photocopying - digital reprinting is usually very high quality stuff.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:24 pm
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

Hi JWB! Hi Folks!

- JWB2

When (what year) was that digital printing done? Nowadays digital printing can be extremely high quality.


The copy write is 2005.

Jim posted:
"Sounds more like crappy photocopying - digital reprinting is usually very high quality stuff."

I agree with the crappy part, that's what it looks like. As far as I know "On Point" is the only book I have or have seen that was digital printed. The written part is high quality. All I can say is from what little I have seen, I would not buy a digital reprinted book with out looking at it first.

My confuzed 2 cents, Confused
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
LeeW
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:34 pm
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

- binder001
Some quick remarks on the AP performance you requested...

1) the 105mm HEAT shell could penetrate a Panther's glacis at 500 yds - based on US firing tests at Isigny, France in the summer of 1944.
...!


Note that HEAT performance is almost independent of range. In the case of this round it probably improved with range. PH on the other hand .....
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:16 pm
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

- Roy_A_Lingle

Jim posted:
"Sounds more like crappy photocopying - digital reprinting is usually very high quality stuff."

I agree with the crappy part, that's what it looks like. As far as I know "On Point" is the only book I have or have seen that was digital printed. The written part is high quality. All I can say is from what little I have seen, I would not buy a digital reprinted book with out looking at it first.


Actually having said that a lot depends on the scanning - But generally the larger the scan file the better the quality.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Sundrtonge
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

Thanks for the replies, they are great! Dont get to spend too much time on the borads hence have not been here in a few.

Quick question on the HEAT performance the range doesnt matter?? - any idea on the distance that HEAT projectile might be able to be shot fromthat 105mm?


Quick note on the nominating a book for digital. I actually went and nominated the title but they sent me an email back stating I would have to contact the publisher on this title. I agree the digital printing isnt the best but I do many books with it and it is a nice alternative just to have something available at a reasonable cost Smile

thanks again!
-Dave

BTW I was just down at Aberdeen in Maryland and snapped off about 1100 pictures or so, if I get a chance ill throw a few up latter on. The curator and staff down there were awesome to our needs!
Back to top
View user's profile
Sundrtonge
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:00 pm
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

oops should have read a little closer Shocked - looks like the HEAT range of

M67 8,590 yards?

_dave
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:01 pm
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

If you had mentioned it earlier, Bob Smart probably could have arranged for a behind the scenes tour at the museum...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Sundrtonge
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:04 pm
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

And for the whys of this - I am desiging a simple WWII armor game for my company as I am not satisfied with what is out there now.

Bob Smart? i think I spoke to you about my Aberdeen trip through geroge Bradford? HI!

-Dave
Back to top
View user's profile
LeeW
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:29 pm
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

- Sundrtonge
...Quick question on the HEAT performance the range doesnt matter?? ...!

Actually that's only a first order approximation due to a couple of factors either not well understood or who's fix was known or considered worth while WWII HEAT rounds especially those from a cannon (as opposed to say a bazooka, rifle grenade, or panzer faust) actually probably improved with range. There are two reasons for this:
1) spinning (due to using a rifled barrel) tends to cut down on the penetration of HEAT rounds. The further the shell got from the barrel the slower the sping and the less this effect.
2) To get maximum effect from a HEAT round you want to detonate it a bit before it reaches the target (this the standoff probes on most current HEAT rounds). If the round is traveling slower when it hits this tends to give it a bit more "stand off".
Now whether the effect of either of these two was noticable between say 500 yards and 1,000 yards I don't know (and rather doubt). Certainly the PH of a HEAT round was going to go down pretty rapidly as range increased. Also there is the possibility that as long as the round penetrated the disbursing effect of the spin and higher velocity might actually enhance the behind armor effects.

For game purposes I'd probably not get into any of this....
Back to top
View user's profile
Sundrtonge
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

Hi Neil,

i think I did speak with Bob and it just didnt happen, I didnt raelize this until a little bit ago. Him and Geroge have been great! I was able to get a behind the scenes tour as well, though they were quite busy. I snaged up shots of the Elephant as well over at the railhead, pretty cool vehicle!

I was just doing a bit of math, if the 105 has the same performance as the artillery piece, but the elevation allowance is about half that of the artillery piece I would think it is safe to assume that the range of the 105 Sherman would be about hald for indirect fire.

-Dave
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum