±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 450
Total: 450
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Downloads
02: Home
03: Home
04: Home
05: Home
06: Home
07: Home
08: Home
09: Community Forums
10: Photo Gallery
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Downloads
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Home
17: Home
18: Home
19: Home
20: Home
21: Home
22: Home
23: Home
24: Home
25: Home
26: Your Account
27: Home
28: Home
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Home
33: Home
34: Home
35: Photo Gallery
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Home
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: Photo Gallery
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Downloads
53: Member Screenshots
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Home
57: Member Screenshots
58: Home
59: Home
60: Home
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Home
64: Home
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Home
70: Home
71: Home
72: Home
73: Photo Gallery
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Home
77: Home
78: Home
79: Home
80: Home
81: Community Forums
82: Home
83: Home
84: Home
85: Home
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Home
89: Home
90: Home
91: Home
92: Home
93: Home
94: Home
95: Photo Gallery
96: Home
97: Home
98: Home
99: Home
100: Home
101: Home
102: Home
103: Home
104: Home
105: Home
106: Community Forums
107: Member Screenshots
108: Home
109: Home
110: Home
111: Home
112: Home
113: News Archive
114: Home
115: Home
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Photo Gallery
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Home
123: Photo Gallery
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Home
128: Member Screenshots
129: Community Forums
130: Home
131: Photo Gallery
132: Community Forums
133: Member Screenshots
134: Home
135: Member Screenshots
136: Home
137: News Archive
138: Home
139: Home
140: Home
141: Home
142: Home
143: Home
144: Home
145: News Archive
146: Home
147: Home
148: Home
149: Home
150: Home
151: News
152: Home
153: Home
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Home
160: Member Screenshots
161: Home
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Home
166: Member Screenshots
167: Member Screenshots
168: Home
169: Home
170: Home
171: Home
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Home
177: Photo Gallery
178: Home
179: Home
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: News
186: Home
187: Your Account
188: Photo Gallery
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Home
197: Community Forums
198: Member Screenshots
199: Home
200: Home
201: Member Screenshots
202: Your Account
203: Home
204: Photo Gallery
205: Downloads
206: Community Forums
207: Home
208: Community Forums
209: Member Screenshots
210: Community Forums
211: Home
212: Home
213: Home
214: Member Screenshots
215: Home
216: Home
217: Home
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Home
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Member Screenshots
225: Photo Gallery
226: Member Screenshots
227: Home
228: Home
229: News Archive
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Member Screenshots
233: Home
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Photo Gallery
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Photo Gallery
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Home
244: Home
245: Home
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Home
249: Community Forums
250: Member Screenshots
251: Home
252: Home
253: Home
254: Home
255: Home
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Home
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Home
264: Home
265: Home
266: Home
267: Home
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Home
271: Member Screenshots
272: Downloads
273: Home
274: Home
275: Home
276: Home
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Community Forums
280: Home
281: Home
282: Home
283: Home
284: Home
285: News Archive
286: Community Forums
287: Home
288: Search
289: Home
290: Home
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Home
294: Home
295: Home
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Downloads
301: Community Forums
302: Home
303: Home
304: Community Forums
305: Photo Gallery
306: Your Account
307: Statistics
308: News Archive
309: Member Screenshots
310: Downloads
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Member Screenshots
314: Community Forums
315: Home
316: Home
317: Home
318: Member Screenshots
319: Home
320: Home
321: Home
322: Community Forums
323: Member Screenshots
324: Member Screenshots
325: Member Screenshots
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Home
329: Home
330: Community Forums
331: Member Screenshots
332: Home
333: Home
334: Home
335: Home
336: Home
337: Home
338: Home
339: Member Screenshots
340: Home
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Home
346: News Archive
347: Home
348: Photo Gallery
349: Member Screenshots
350: Photo Gallery
351: Community Forums
352: Member Screenshots
353: Member Screenshots
354: Home
355: Member Screenshots
356: Home
357: Home
358: Home
359: Home
360: Home
361: Photo Gallery
362: Home
363: Community Forums
364: Home
365: Home
366: Community Forums
367: Home
368: Member Screenshots
369: Community Forums
370: Home
371: Home
372: Home
373: Photo Gallery
374: Home
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Member Screenshots
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Member Screenshots
385: Home
386: Home
387: Home
388: Home
389: Home
390: Community Forums
391: Member Screenshots
392: Member Screenshots
393: Home
394: Home
395: Home
396: Community Forums
397: Home
398: Home
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Downloads
403: Photo Gallery
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Home
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Statistics
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Member Screenshots
423: Downloads
424: Community Forums
425: Photo Gallery
426: Home
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Home
434: Community Forums
435: News
436: Photo Gallery
437: Community Forums
438: Downloads
439: Member Screenshots
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Home
445: Home
446: Downloads
447: Community Forums
448: Home
449: Home
450: Downloads

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Tanklord
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Louisiana
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:36 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A0?

Ain't going there...ain't touching that! Razz

_________________
The only thing to do when a son-of-a-bitch looks
cross-eyed at you is to beat the hell out of him right
then and there
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:39 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A0?

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

Okay, now I am thoroughly confused... The above graphic shows only the A0s with the Patton-style turrets?


Patton-style turrets? Do you mean M48?
Remember, the name Patton is used with the M46, M47, M48, and M60 type of medium/main battle tanks. You have me confuzed now.


- Neil_Baumgardner

I thought all A1s had Patton style turrets, and that A3s had the crimped nose style turrets...


The crimped nose style turret was the number one change between the M60A0s and the M60A1s. The A3 used the same hull and turret as the A1s with a long list of upgrades. Many of them inside with only a few showing on the outside. One major item that stands out (if it hasn't been removed) is a wind sensor (something like 18 or so inchs tall) near the left rear edge of the turret roof.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:48 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A0?

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Neil! Hi Folks!
Patton-style turrets? Do you mean M48?
Remember, the name Patton is used with the M46, M47, M48, and M60 type of medium/main battle tanks. You have me confuzed now.


Right, yes, good point... I "think" I have the M46s, M47s (especially) and M48s down pat...



The crimped nose style turret was the number one change between the M60A0s and the M60A1s. The A3 used the same hull and turret as the A1s with a long list of upgrades. Many of them inside with only a few showing on the outside. One major item that stands out (if it hasn't been removed) is a wind sensor (something like 18 or so inchs tall) near the left rear edge of the turret roof.


Ugh, how the heck am I going to tell that from all these pics?... I may end up saying M60A1/A3 for a lot of these now...

Man, I knew this whole A0 discussion was going to be trouble when it first started...

<grumble, grumble> [mumbling] Why cant all these models be more easily identifiable... [/mumbling] <grumble, grumble>

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:40 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A0?

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

Ugh, how the heck am I going to tell that from all these pics?... I may end up saying M60A1/A3 for a lot of these now...


1. If you can see side loading air filters, it is an A1.
2. If you can see the wind sensor, it is an A3.
3. If you can see the range finder cover on the left (loader's) side of the turret,
3.a. openning is welded over, it's an A3. The A3 used a lazer ranger finder and only needed the cover on the right side (the T.C.'s side)
3.b. open is turned to face any direction but forward, its an A3.
4. If you can see the right cover and it has a trap door cover, it's an A3.

5. If you can see the right (TC's side)rear corner of the turret storage rack clear enough that you can tell the basket is one piece and there is no storage rack for a searchlight mounted off the rear edge of the air filter cover, it's an A3. On the A1s that area of the rack was bolted on and could be removed if the search light was being carried on the back of the turret. A1s upgraded to A3 status still had the two part basket and might or might not have the search light storage bracket.
6. Post the photos you need help with, I am sure someone here can ID most of them.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:54 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A0s, A1s and A3s?

Thanks... In the interim, a lot of the listings are getting called "M60A1/A3." I'm waiting to hear back from Joe D on his confirmed A1s vs A3s...

I cant do it right now... But if someone wanted to go through the 159 pages of "tanks" on this link and pick out the A1s vs A3s... Well that would be really, really cool:

www.geocaching.com/see...e6cedf1f33

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:15 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A0s, A1s and A3s?

- Neil_Baumgardner
Thanks... In the interim, a lot of the listings are getting called "M60A1/A3." I'm waiting to hear back from Joe D on his confirmed A1s vs A3s...

I cant do it right now... But if someone wanted to go through the 159 pages of "tanks" on this link and pick out the A1s vs A3s... Well that would be really, really cool:

www.geocaching.com/see...e6cedf1f33

Neil


Not quit the M60 'expert', I always use the wind sensor on the back of the turret as well as the 'thermal shroud' to determine the 'A3'.

Never served on them, but always saw them around....

( Counting my lucky stars for being a 'Jedi-Tanker'... Cool )

Don

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Geoff_walden
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:13 am
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A0?

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

Ugh, how the heck am I going to tell that from all these pics?... I may end up saying M60A1/A3 for a lot of these now...


1. If you can see side loading air filters, it is an A1.



This is true (or an M60), but the converse is not necessarily true. That is, a top-loading armored air cleaner does not automotically mean an A3. The M60A1 RISE tanks also had top-loading air cleaners. In fact, we had just about all the latest exterior mods that were not specifically A3-only (eg, we had T-142 tracks, we did not have the cut-out or bolt-in piece for searchlight stowage in our bustle racks - we had 1-piece bustle racks like the A3, we had the AN/VVS-2A searchlight - I think that was the right designation - the "pink" light - these were all on M60A1 RISE (Passive) tanks made ca. 1980).

To me, a dead giveaway for an A3 is the thermal shroud on the gun tube, although I suppose this COULD be removed on a display tank.

Oh, one other thing - AFAIK, all A3s had that little "muzzle brake" at the end of the heater exhaust pipe. Never did know what that thing was for - we didn't have that on our A1s.

Geoff Walden
Back to top
View user's profile
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:54 am
Post subject: Re: M60A0s, A1s and A3s?

The identifiers for an A3 vs. late A1 are:
1. the crosswind sensor, it looks like a short, stubby antenna with a removable sensor that looks like an egg beater.
2. the thermal shroud on the gun tube that makes the unshrouded end of the barrel look skinny.
3. the armored flap on the right side sight blister.
4. the A3 has a larger "doghouse" or armored sight housing because of the Tank Thermal Sight (TTS).

I don't agree with the the left side identifier 3b listed above. Our tanks had the left blister that was open (empty) and they faced forward. It was plated over on the inside.

Some older tankers try to use the presence of smoke grenade launchers, mounts or grenade boxes as A3 identifiers, but many late use A1s had these features added as well.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:17 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A0s, A1s and A3s?

The first batch of photos appear to be all straight M60s. Some are early turret and some are late turrets. The identifier between early and late is the placement of the turret lifting rings. If the layout of the rings is similar to the location of the rings on an M48, you have an early turret. This layout is one ring on the turret roof behind the mantlet and a ring on each rear corner of the turret sides.

A late turret has the lift rings in the same spot as the M60A1 and M60A3. A ring is located to the right and left of the mantlet with the third ring located centered on the turret roof behind the turret hatches.

I think someone here came up with the idea of calling the early turret the M60 and the later turret the M60A0, but I an not sure. Having a senior moment here. I will call them early or late.

Here is my identification of the tanks using the above criteria:


Kalamazoo, MI--M60 late



Fort Douglas UT (third one from the left)--M60 late



Nettleson MS--M60 late



Camp McKall NC--M60 late



Freedom Hill Park MI--M60 early



Florence SC--M60 late



Homer GA--M60 late



Grayling MI--M60 late



Little Rock AR--M60 late



Shelton NE--M60 late



Post Falls ID--M60 early



Westland MI--M60 early



Church Hill TN--M60 early



Baxter Springs KS--M60 late



Holley NY--M60 late



Millard NE--M60 early



Pentwater MI--M60 late



Temperence MI--M60 early


_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:28 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A0?

Again, using my above identifiers, the tanks are all Slick M60s with some being early and others being late turrets. One thing I did notice is that some of these 60s have some very late fittings. They must have been in use with the National Guard for a long time.

Items someone used to ID M60A1 vs. M60A3, like the side loading air cleaner vs. top loading air cleaner goes out the window when you see an early and late M60 with side loading air cleaners. You will even see M48A5 tanks with the top loading air cleaners.

Little Rock AR--M60 late



Monona IA--M60 early



Camp McCain MS--M60 late



Millersburg PA--M60 early



Milford MI--M60 early



Sturgis IN--M60 late



Duluth NY--M60 late



Annapolis MD--M60 late



Alexander City AL--M60 early



Athens TN--M60 early



Chicago IL--M60 early



Rigby ID--M60 early



Kingsport TN--M60 early



Holland MI--M60 late



Knoxville TN--M60 early



Manchester MI--M60 late



St Louis MI--M60 late



Caldwell ID--M60 early



Alpharetta GA--M60 late



Grayling MI--M60 late


_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:22 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A0?

Hi Sabot! Hi Folks!

- Sabot

Items someone used to ID M60A1 vs. M60A3, like the side loading air cleaner vs. top loading air cleaner goes out the window when you see an early and late M60 with side loading air cleaners. You will even see M48A5 tanks with the top loading air cleaners.


I have to disagree with you Sir.

If we are looking at a vehicle that could be an A1 or an A3 and it has side loaders, then I think we can safely say it's an A1. A3s never used the side loading. A1s that were upgraded were switched to top loaders. Only A1/A3 types of vehicle that still has side loaders would be A1s.

As for the M60A0 early and late vehicles, that is a different problem. While they all started out with side loaders, I don't think we can safely use the filter box as an item for I.D.ing that version.

As for the M48s, the top loading filter boxs can help I.D. the A5 version only.

The side loading filter box should ONLY be used to I.D. an A1 that was NEVER upgraded.

Hope this clears up my muddy thinking about filter boxes. Smile
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:36 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A0?

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Sabot! Hi Folks!

- Sabot

Items someone used to ID M60A1 vs. M60A3, like the side loading air cleaner vs. top loading air cleaner goes out the window when you see an early and late M60 with side loading air cleaners. You will even see M48A5 tanks with the top loading air cleaners.


I have to disagree with you Sir.

If we are looking at a vehicle that could be an A1 or an A3 and it has side loaders, then I think we can safely say it's an A1. A3s never used the side loading. A1s that were upgraded were switched to top loaders. Only A1/A3 types of vehicle that still has side loaders would be A1s.

As for the M60A0 early and late vehicles, that is a different problem. While they all started out with side loaders, I don't think we can safely use the filter box as an item for I.D.ing that version.

As for the M48s, the top loading filter boxs can help I.D. the A5 version only.

The side loading filter box should ONLY be used to I.D. an A1 that was NEVER upgraded.

Hope this clears up my muddy thinking about filter boxes. Smile
Sgt, Scouts Out!
I agree that side loading air cleaners will ID a vehicle as NOT being an A3. What I am saying is that top loading air cleaner can't be used to say a vehicle isn't an M60A1 because there are M60A1s with top loading air cleaners.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:47 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A0s, A1s and A3s?

Just to stir the pot a little... whats the external differences between the M60A1 and the M60A1 AOS, M60A1 RISE, M60A1 RPE?

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:44 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

Okay, some more pics - this time is it an A1 or A3?

Red Hill PA



Hanson KY



Halstead PA





Roland OK



Lubbock TX



Johnston RI (says its an A3)



Dyersville IA



Cassville MO





Green River WY



Allegany NY





Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:04 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

- Neil_Baumgardner
Okay, some more pics - this time is it an A1 or A3?


Neil


All are M60A3s, they have either the telltale crosswind sensor, thermal shroud or the LRF cover. Just a couple still retain the doghouse for the TTS.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum