±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 436
Total: 436
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Photo Gallery
03: Home
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Home
08: Downloads
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Home
12: Downloads
13: Home
14: Home
15: Home
16: Photo Gallery
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Member Screenshots
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Member Screenshots
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Downloads
44: Community Forums
45: Member Screenshots
46: Home
47: Member Screenshots
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Home
51: Home
52: Downloads
53: Downloads
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Home
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Member Screenshots
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Member Screenshots
75: Community Forums
76: Downloads
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Home
87: Photo Gallery
88: Home
89: Home
90: Home
91: Photo Gallery
92: Community Forums
93: Member Screenshots
94: Member Screenshots
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Your Account
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Contact
108: Photo Gallery
109: Home
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: Home
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Photo Gallery
120: Community Forums
121: Statistics
122: Community Forums
123: Photo Gallery
124: Downloads
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Downloads
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Home
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Home
142: Home
143: Member Screenshots
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Home
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Member Screenshots
156: Community Forums
157: Home
158: Downloads
159: Home
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Home
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Downloads
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Home
177: Community Forums
178: Member Screenshots
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: Home
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Home
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Downloads
197: Home
198: Photo Gallery
199: News
200: Statistics
201: Home
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Community Forums
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Home
213: Photo Gallery
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Statistics
217: Community Forums
218: Downloads
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Home
222: Community Forums
223: Member Screenshots
224: Home
225: Home
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Home
229: Photo Gallery
230: Home
231: Photo Gallery
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Community Forums
235: Downloads
236: Home
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Home
243: Downloads
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Photo Gallery
247: Community Forums
248: Home
249: Home
250: Member Screenshots
251: Home
252: Home
253: Community Forums
254: Home
255: Home
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Home
259: Home
260: Home
261: Downloads
262: Community Forums
263: Photo Gallery
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Member Screenshots
267: Community Forums
268: Home
269: Member Screenshots
270: Community Forums
271: Downloads
272: Member Screenshots
273: Home
274: Home
275: Community Forums
276: Home
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Home
280: Photo Gallery
281: Home
282: Photo Gallery
283: Home
284: Home
285: Community Forums
286: Home
287: News
288: Home
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Downloads
293: Member Screenshots
294: Home
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: News
298: Community Forums
299: Your Account
300: Home
301: Community Forums
302: Home
303: Downloads
304: News Archive
305: Community Forums
306: Home
307: Home
308: Home
309: Home
310: Home
311: Home
312: News Archive
313: Home
314: Home
315: Home
316: Community Forums
317: Home
318: Home
319: Home
320: Home
321: Home
322: Your Account
323: Home
324: Photo Gallery
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Photo Gallery
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Statistics
332: News Archive
333: Your Account
334: Community Forums
335: Photo Gallery
336: Home
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Home
347: Home
348: Home
349: Home
350: Home
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Member Screenshots
354: Community Forums
355: Member Screenshots
356: Home
357: Photo Gallery
358: Community Forums
359: Treasury
360: Home
361: Community Forums
362: Home
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Community Forums
367: Home
368: Community Forums
369: Photo Gallery
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Home
375: Community Forums
376: Member Screenshots
377: Home
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Home
382: Community Forums
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Home
386: Photo Gallery
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Home
391: Community Forums
392: Home
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Home
400: Member Screenshots
401: Home
402: Community Forums
403: Home
404: Home
405: Your Account
406: Photo Gallery
407: Member Screenshots
408: Community Forums
409: Downloads
410: Community Forums
411: Home
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Community Forums
422: Home
423: Photo Gallery
424: Community Forums
425: Home
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Home
430: Member Screenshots
431: Community Forums
432: Downloads
433: Statistics
434: Community Forums
435: Home
436: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Origins of the Littlefield Panther A
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:07 pm
Post subject: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

What a treasurechest the "detektorweb.cz" site turned out to be, but since my knowledge of the Czech language is limited (read close to nothing) the clicking is very much "trail n error" Smile

Among the many, many pictures of salvaged/recovered armor I came across pictures of what must be Mr. Littlefield's Panther A pre and post salvage.

The Panther before being pulled from the Czarna Nida river:



Left side track is detaching during pulling:



Left side track is gone:



Upside down (this picture and the one following has been widely spread on the net though):



Panther rear:



Detail of one of the peculiar side fittings:



Finally a picture from the scrapyard where the Panther is said to have been rediscovered. The only other pictures I've seen of this showed the Panther with "quilt" turret and a close up of the Stug, this picture clearly shows another Panther A hull to the far left. The initial report on this scrapyard spoke of several Panthers:



And there's lots more, I'll be scouting this page for days ...

Cheers,
Rik

_________________
Frustra Nate Vive Devincere


Last edited by Rikard_Hufschmied on Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:37 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
toadmanstankpictures
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 704

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

Rik,
Would you happen to know who took the original photos? Any help would be most appreciated.

Regards,
Chris

_________________
Chris "toadman" Hughes
www.toadmanstankpictures.com
www.cafepress.com/toad...ksandstuff
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

- toadmanstankpictures
Rik,
Would you happen to know who took the original photos? Any help would be most appreciated.

Regards,
Chris


Chris,

Sadly no, no credits anywhere. Most of the pictures just say "source: internet" . I'd love to see some more pictures of that scrapyard.

Cheers,
Rik

_________________
Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
toadmanstankpictures
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 704

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

Rik,
Thanks for the quick response. Too bad about the lack of picture credit. I'd like to use them for some sort of publication when the restoration is completed but won't unless I get permission. Oh well...the search continues.

Regards,
Chris

_________________
Chris "toadman" Hughes
www.toadmanstankpictures.com
www.cafepress.com/toad...ksandstuff
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
mark67
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Warsaw
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

- Rikard_Hufschmied

Upside down (this picture and the one following has been widely spread on the net though):



Panther rear:



Detail of one of the peculiar side fittings:




Those pictures were published in Polish (no longer existng) magazine "Militaria" Vol.2 No.2/96. They are credited to Piotr Mrozowski and made in summer 1991 soon after recovery.

HTH

Marek
Back to top
View user's profile
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:56 am
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

- mark67
Those pictures were published in Polish (no longer existng) magazine "Militaria" Vol.2 No.2/96. They are credited to Piotr Mrozowski and made in summer 1991 soon after recovery.

HTH

Marek


Marek,

Thank You for the information. Is there any additional information in the article like where the Panther was found and recovered?

Cheers,
Rik

_________________
Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:00 am
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

Hmm ...

Come to think of it, picture nr.2 where the track is coming loose looks very much like a still from a VHS tape transfer ... hmm

_________________
Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
mark67
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Warsaw
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:37 am
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

- Rikard_Hufschmied
Is there any additional information in the article like where the Panther was found and recovered?

Hi Rik,
Of course there are that information. Because that Panther is pretty famous, I did not give those information.
Anyway This Panther was recovered in Poland in 1991 from small river called Czarna Nida. After recovery it was sold to privet German collector. That was situation when the article was prepared. For you information after that time, German collector resold Panther to Polish first owners, which sold it to Littlefield collection. Now on Toadman page you can see how looks today.
This Panther is famous because mysterious "fittings' on hull sides - which were unfortunately removed by Littlefield team (I do not now why?). Maybe Toadman can explain it as apparently he is close to the team?
BTW there was some more photos in this article plus 1/35 drawing of Panther with this 'fittings", which were asymmetric.

HTH

Marek
Back to top
View user's profile
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:31 am
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

- mark67
- Rikard_Hufschmied
Is there any additional information in the article like where the Panther was found and recovered?

Hi Rik,
Of course there are that information. Because that Panther is pretty famous, I did not give those information.
Anyway This Panther was recovered in Poland in 1991 from small river called Czarna Nida. After recovery it was sold to privet German collector. That was situation when the article was prepared. For you information after that time, German collector resold Panther to Polish first owners, which sold it to Littlefield collection. Now on Toadman page you can see how looks today.
This Panther is famous because mysterious "fittings' on hull sides - which were unfortunately removed by Littlefield team (I do not now why?). Maybe Toadman can explain it as apparently he is close to the team?
BTW there was some more photos in this article plus 1/35 drawing of Panther with this 'fittings", which were asymmetric.

HTH

Marek



Hi Marek,

That's the same information I had but it was more or less unconfirmed, to much conflicting info has been reported on this Panther. I've been following the restoration of this Panther pretty much since day one Smile

There has been many theories on those side fittings, the consensus I believe was that it was a non-standard/makeshift field modification for fitting of "Nebelwerfer" launchers. That probably also explains why the Littlefield crew didn't keep them

Any chance on a post of those other pictures and the drawing?

Thanks,
Rik

_________________
Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
mark67
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Warsaw
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:50 am
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

Rik,

For sure that modification was not "field" - there were side toolholder frames relocated because those fittings and it was done before tank was covered by zimmerit. As you probably know there are 2 pictures of Tiger I with this fittings. Personaly I am after theory that those fittings were for light composite side armour but nobody knows for sure as there are not German documents about this modification.
Well, yes I can post them here as well.

Best regards,

Marek


Last edited by mark67 on Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:22 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
mark67
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Warsaw
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

Ok then. Promissed photos from "Militaria"





HTH
Marek
Back to top
View user's profile
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

Excellent!

Thank You Marek, and I agree that the "Nebelwerfer field modification" theory is just not that viable seeing this. Add-on side armor is much more likely and also makes a lot more sense. Extra armor on the sponson sides was much needed on the Ausf. A to increase survivability, and something the Germans also sought to rectify on the Ausf. G.

Thanks again! Cheers,
Rik

_________________
Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dennis_Smith
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 17, 2006
Posts: 192

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:34 am
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

[quote]What a treasurechest the "detektorweb.cz" site turned out to be, but since my knowledge of the Czech language is limited (read close to nothing) the clicking is very much "trail n error"


Hi Rikard,

Thanks for posting that website, I've been enjoying it. I'm using a Czech to English translator (not perfect, but it helps a lot). Have you tried this one?

www.translation-guide....to=English
Back to top
View user's profile
toadmanstankpictures
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 704

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:01 am
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

- mark67
- Rikard_Hufschmied
Is there any additional information in the article like where the Panther was found and recovered?

Hi Rik,
Of course there are that information. Because that Panther is pretty famous, I did not give those information.
Anyway This Panther was recovered in Poland in 1991 from small river called Czarna Nida. After recovery it was sold to privet German collector. That was situation when the article was prepared. For you information after that time, German collector resold Panther to Polish first owners, which sold it to Littlefield collection. Now on Toadman page you can see how looks today.
This Panther is famous because mysterious "fittings' on hull sides - which were unfortunately removed by Littlefield team (I do not now why?). Maybe Toadman can explain it as apparently he is close to the team?
BTW there was some more photos in this article plus 1/35 drawing of Panther with this 'fittings", which were asymmetric.

HTH

Marek


From what I've been told, the Littlefield team thought that the fittings were for some sort of standoff armor. Since they're not really sure of what they're for, the fittings were removed until they're actual use can be determined. I'll see if I can find out more during one of my upcoming visits, say in 2-3 weeks.

_________________
Chris "toadman" Hughes
www.toadmanstankpictures.com
www.cafepress.com/toad...ksandstuff
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum