±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 853
Total: 853
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Downloads
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Member Screenshots
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: Home
14: Home
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Photo Gallery
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Downloads
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: News Archive
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Home
38: Member Screenshots
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Member Screenshots
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Member Screenshots
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Downloads
81: Photo Gallery
82: Home
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Home
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Member Screenshots
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Home
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Photo Gallery
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Home
118: Supporters
119: Members List
120: Photo Gallery
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Home
126: Home
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Home
131: Home
132: Home
133: Home
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Statistics
152: Downloads
153: Member Screenshots
154: Downloads
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Home
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Downloads
170: Home
171: News Archive
172: Photo Gallery
173: Photo Gallery
174: Community Forums
175: Photo Gallery
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Home
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Home
188: Member Screenshots
189: Community Forums
190: Home
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Downloads
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Downloads
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: Statistics
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Photo Gallery
226: Community Forums
227: Statistics
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Photo Gallery
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Home
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: News Archive
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Home
270: Community Forums
271: Photo Gallery
272: Statistics
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Statistics
276: Home
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Contact
280: Home
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Home
284: Downloads
285: Home
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Downloads
292: Community Forums
293: News Archive
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Home
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Photo Gallery
311: Photo Gallery
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Downloads
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Member Screenshots
326: Community Forums
327: Downloads
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Home
336: Home
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Home
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Home
346: Home
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Contact
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Downloads
358: Home
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Photo Gallery
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: Home
369: Home
370: Photo Gallery
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Statistics
374: Community Forums
375: Home
376: News Archive
377: Home
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Member Screenshots
387: Community Forums
388: Photo Gallery
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Home
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Home
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Home
407: Photo Gallery
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Member Screenshots
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Photo Gallery
420: Community Forums
421: Home
422: Home
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Photo Gallery
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Photo Gallery
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Statistics
439: Community Forums
440: News Archive
441: Statistics
442: Community Forums
443: News Archive
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Home
447: Photo Gallery
448: Home
449: Downloads
450: Community Forums
451: Photo Gallery
452: Community Forums
453: Home
454: Home
455: Members List
456: Photo Gallery
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Home
462: Community Forums
463: Photo Gallery
464: Home
465: Community Forums
466: Downloads
467: Home
468: Photo Gallery
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Home
472: Home
473: Home
474: News Archive
475: Community Forums
476: Home
477: Photo Gallery
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Home
484: Home
485: Community Forums
486: Home
487: Photo Gallery
488: Home
489: Home
490: Community Forums
491: Photo Gallery
492: Home
493: Community Forums
494: Home
495: Home
496: Home
497: Home
498: Home
499: Home
500: Community Forums
501: Photo Gallery
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Home
505: Statistics
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Home
513: Home
514: Home
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Your Account
519: Home
520: Community Forums
521: Home
522: News Archive
523: Member Screenshots
524: Home
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Home
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Home
531: Photo Gallery
532: Home
533: Community Forums
534: Member Screenshots
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Photo Gallery
539: Community Forums
540: Statistics
541: Community Forums
542: Home
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Downloads
546: Photo Gallery
547: Downloads
548: Photo Gallery
549: Home
550: Home
551: Downloads
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Member Screenshots
559: Photo Gallery
560: Home
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Home
571: Home
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Downloads
575: Community Forums
576: Downloads
577: Community Forums
578: News Archive
579: Community Forums
580: Member Screenshots
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Member Screenshots
585: Community Forums
586: Member Screenshots
587: Downloads
588: Community Forums
589: Home
590: Community Forums
591: Statistics
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Downloads
598: Home
599: Home
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Home
603: Community Forums
604: Photo Gallery
605: Home
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Downloads
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Photo Gallery
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Home
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Home
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Home
625: Photo Gallery
626: Community Forums
627: Home
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: News
631: News Archive
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Downloads
636: Home
637: Community Forums
638: Home
639: Member Screenshots
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Home
643: Home
644: Home
645: Home
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Home
652: Home
653: Home
654: Home
655: Home
656: Home
657: Home
658: Home
659: Home
660: Home
661: Home
662: Home
663: Community Forums
664: Home
665: Home
666: Photo Gallery
667: Community Forums
668: Home
669: Community Forums
670: Photo Gallery
671: Home
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Photo Gallery
678: Home
679: Community Forums
680: Home
681: Member Screenshots
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Home
685: Photo Gallery
686: Member Screenshots
687: Photo Gallery
688: Home
689: Community Forums
690: Community Forums
691: Community Forums
692: Member Screenshots
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Home
697: Home
698: Home
699: Home
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: News
703: Community Forums
704: Home
705: Home
706: Home
707: Community Forums
708: Community Forums
709: Home
710: Community Forums
711: Photo Gallery
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Photo Gallery
715: Community Forums
716: Home
717: Community Forums
718: Home
719: Community Forums
720: Community Forums
721: Home
722: Community Forums
723: Home
724: Community Forums
725: Home
726: Community Forums
727: Home
728: Photo Gallery
729: News Archive
730: Community Forums
731: Photo Gallery
732: Community Forums
733: Community Forums
734: Home
735: Photo Gallery
736: Community Forums
737: Photo Gallery
738: Home
739: Community Forums
740: Community Forums
741: Community Forums
742: Community Forums
743: Community Forums
744: Your Account
745: Community Forums
746: Community Forums
747: Community Forums
748: Community Forums
749: Home
750: Home
751: Community Forums
752: Community Forums
753: Home
754: Community Forums
755: Home
756: Photo Gallery
757: Community Forums
758: Community Forums
759: Home
760: Home
761: Home
762: Photo Gallery
763: Photo Gallery
764: Member Screenshots
765: Community Forums
766: Home
767: Community Forums
768: Home
769: Home
770: Statistics
771: Downloads
772: News
773: Community Forums
774: Members List
775: Member Screenshots
776: Home
777: Home
778: Home
779: Community Forums
780: Home
781: Photo Gallery
782: Photo Gallery
783: Community Forums
784: Community Forums
785: Community Forums
786: Home
787: Home
788: Community Forums
789: Community Forums
790: Member Screenshots
791: Community Forums
792: Photo Gallery
793: Home
794: Home
795: Community Forums
796: Home
797: Community Forums
798: Home
799: Photo Gallery
800: Community Forums
801: Photo Gallery
802: Downloads
803: Home
804: Community Forums
805: Community Forums
806: Photo Gallery
807: Home
808: Community Forums
809: Community Forums
810: Community Forums
811: Community Forums
812: Community Forums
813: Home
814: Community Forums
815: Home
816: Photo Gallery
817: Home
818: Home
819: Home
820: Downloads
821: Community Forums
822: Community Forums
823: Community Forums
824: Member Screenshots
825: Home
826: Community Forums
827: Community Forums
828: Community Forums
829: Community Forums
830: Home
831: Home
832: Community Forums
833: Community Forums
834: Community Forums
835: Photo Gallery
836: News Archive
837: Member Screenshots
838: Community Forums
839: Community Forums
840: Home
841: Community Forums
842: Community Forums
843: Members List
844: Community Forums
845: Community Forums
846: Member Screenshots
847: Community Forums
848: Home
849: Photo Gallery
850: Home
851: Community Forums
852: Community Forums
853: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:19 am
Post subject: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!
Interesting report on Iwo Jima. It has been a while sense I read about that battle. This is the first time I have heard that a U.S. Army Infantry (145th) Division had moved in and replaced the VAC.

Roy I think you mean the 147th Infantry Regt. (Seperate) There were no Infantry Divisions above the 106th


That was another alertness check to see if anyone was paying attention to my flub up! Well done Bob! You passed the test!

I guess I forgot who was writting that report. It is comman in the Marine Corps to refur to regiments by their number and the title Marines. As in 9th Marines is the 9th regiment of Marines. While the Army normally refurs to divisions by the number and type. As in the 106th Infantry is the 106th division of infantry. So when I saw the 147th Infantry, I forgot a Marine was writting that report.

No divisions above 106? I guess that explains why I had never heard of the 147th Infantry Division. Confused
Sgt, Scouts Out!


I don't think you're going to slide on it that easy Rolling Eyes I can't agree that the army 'assumed' the unit was a division. I've read and heard of many references to units that were Regiments and not Divisons. In fact historically I think most references were to Regiments

If I say 7th Cav I'll bet you think of the unit that went with Custer to Little Big Horn. That was The 7th Cavalry Regiment. The Old Guard is the 3rd Infantry that's the 3rd Infantry Regiment not Division.

When Divisions were first created as a standing organizational unit early in the 20th Century the were simply Divisions It was the 1st Division, 29th Division, etc. The 'Infantry' designater did not come until just before WWII, at about the same time they went from Square Divisions (2 Brigades of 2 Regiments each) to Triangular Divisions ( No brigades and only 3 Regiments) Of course that was about the same time that Armor Divisions were created. I think Armor units are usually assumed to be divisons. My guess is that may be because for most of their existence they were not organized by regiments but by 'Combat Commands' whicjh were purposly left very nebulous and did not carry many traditions. Even after Regiments stopped being a functional organization the various battalions (which had become the basic building block of larger units) were given almost artificial Regimental lineages.

Now where is this going some of you may ask

I think it may be time to consign the division to to the dustbin of history.

Especially with the new Army structure that began with 'Units of Action' and then had those cumbersome legalistic names changed to Brigades I think that it is time to make a major switch in Army Lineage policy.

I suggest that the army take the Name and insignia of the WWII Divisons and give each one to a Brigade. The Army has so few Divisons these days that many historic and well regarded units (and insignia) are just sitting on the Hearldry shelf. At the same time the 'Division' has grown form the operational unit that moved and fought together into an administrative monstrocity that even when it deploys leaves a large foundation back at it's 'home station'.

Shoulder patches grew out of the tactical signs that Danial Butterworth developed in the Civil War to be able to tell which units troops (and he was mainly worried about skulkers and malingerers) were assigned to. With Brigades being the level at which I see units being employed at why not make that the level at which we bind the troops via identifiable units?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

FYI, "Unit of Action" (and UEs for that matter) has been out of use for about a year now. They're all just BCTs (Brigade Combat Teams) now.

For the time being, divisions still appear to have some use, but I agree they are becoming more of administrative centers/groupings as brigades have taken on more of the operational level of warfare.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

I think they should have gone to a pseudo-regimental system when naming the BCTs. Instead of having 1st Bde, 3rd ID, it should have been named after one of the major regimental units from the brigade (for instance, 66th Armor). Then the battalions in the BCT would be 1/66, 2/66, 3/66 etc.

Too bad we killed the separate brigades. They are just about what the BCTs ended up being.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Sabot
I think they should have gone to a pseudo-regimental system when naming the BCTs. Instead of having 1st Bde, 3rd ID, it should have been named after one of the major regimental units from the brigade (for instance, 66th Armor). Then the battalions in the BCT would be 1/66, 2/66, 3/66 etc.


Interesting... But the branches/schools would oppose that - a lot...

Would all armor/infantry regiments become generic maneuver regiments? - which would mean effectively merging the armor & infantry branch into a generic maneuver branch. We might be headed in that direction eventually, with the move of the Armor Center & School to Benning - but no merger of the branches as yet...

Or would infantry battalions in an Armor BCT become an infantry battalion in an armor regiment? And vice versa? Armor back in the infantry branch? My head is spinning...

And never mind the supporting artillery, forward support, and engineer battalions...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

As I remember it a 'Combat Team' meant that the base unit had been augmented with support units to make it a self supportng and more well rounded Combat unit that was capable of independent operations.

So a BCT would be more than the base infantry, armor, etc that had made up the old regiment. That is why I suggested making them the replacement for the Division. For the Reserves/Guard that would also reverse the trend of combining state units that used to stand on their own into Divisions that cross regional lines.

The new brigades would still have the mix of supporting arms that old WWII era divisons had but shed the support and administarative tail they have grown over the years and return to being primarily operational units.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

One of my little pet peeves is that despite all this talk of moving to a brigade-centric force, very little has been done toward that goal. Brigades are still part of divisions and, for the most part, still deploy as part of their parent division. There's very little modularity in practice, it seems. I think the Army History Center made the determination that all the new brigades would still be part of divisions, so we've now got the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Brigades of the 1st Infantry/1st Armored/1st Cavalry Divisions. To me, this doesn't really foster a culture of modularity or brigade-centrism.

There was a proposal a year or two ago to name each BCT uniquely - the six airborne brigades would inheiret the names of the six historical airborne divisions and seperate brigades. You'd have the 82nd, 101st, 11th, 13th, 17th and 173rd Airborne Brigades, each with their own unit patches. The Heavy BCTs would adopt the historical names of armored divisions and seperate brigades and historically mechanized infantry divisions. The Light BCTs would get their names and patches from other historical infantry divisions and brigades.

I think naming brigades individually would greatly enhance esprit and certainly foster the modularity mentality in the Army. Plus, how cool would it be to see the 2nd Armored Division patch again?

Here is the US Army today:

www4.army.mil/soldiers...rForce.pdf
Soldiers Magazine

Here is the proposed renaming convention:

www.ausa.org/pdfdocs/Lowe.pdf
Army Magazine March 2005
Back to top
View user's profile
Dubliner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

nt


Last edited by Dubliner on Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2069
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi folks,
From what I've seen the units are already set up for operations, unlike how we did it 5 years ago. That's cross attach platoons and company's to make up the task force. We got 3-67 Armor here under the new system. Tanks, Bradleys, Engineers, Etc all part of the Battalion. Same with the medium and light units. I think it's much better than the old way, at least you all know each other. BTW , BCT's are what they all are called with the exception of the SBCT's (Stryker). They still mark their bumper numbers that way too.
Speaking for myself only (for what it's worth), The division thing is kinda confusing and out dated now anyway. Everyone is attached here or falls under this or that. It get's pretty interesting when a troop decides what unit patch to where on the right shoulder. I know a lot of guys that after one year in country can wear up to 4 different patches. Kinda crazy. I guess that's why we went to velcro, just carry the patches in the pocket and change them out when needed. Naming Brigades individually would cut down on the confusion some. Besides, I'd like to see a 3AD patch again.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Well, hell! Call me old-fashioned (because, in fact, I am....not for nothing does minha esposa call me "meu vaio") but if we're improvising units to the mission, what was wrong with "task force X"or if really short-lived, a "reinforced whatever" if you have to "go heavy"...since surnamed units (i.e. "Team Desobry") are out of security/fashion these days. At least everyone understood what you meant in the context mentioned by Bob (though I wonder, from afar, if he meant "Combat Command" as opposed to "Combat Team").

A lot of this unit nomenclature seems like just so much sophistry to this guy. Sorry....just had to vent. Rant mode off. We now return you to our currently serving forces, already in progress. Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner
- Sabot
I think they should have gone to a pseudo-regimental system when naming the BCTs. Instead of having 1st Bde, 3rd ID, it should have been named after one of the major regimental units from the brigade (for instance, 66th Armor). Then the battalions in the BCT would be 1/66, 2/66, 3/66 etc.


Interesting... But the branches/schools would oppose that - a lot...

Would all armor/infantry regiments become generic maneuver regiments? - which would mean effectively merging the armor & infantry branch into a generic maneuver branch. We might be headed in that direction eventually, with the move of the Armor Center & School to Benning - but no merger of the branches as yet...

Or would infantry battalions in an Armor BCT become an infantry battalion in an armor regiment? And vice versa? Armor back in the infantry branch? My head is spinning...

And never mind the supporting artillery, forward support, and engineer battalions...

Neil
Take a walk through the Infantry Museum at Ft. Benning. You would be surprised at how many "armor regiment" insignias were originally infantry regiments. The infantry used to own the tanks. One of my old regiments was 68th Armor. That was once 68th Infantry Regiment (Light Tanks).

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Doug_Kibbey
Well, hell! Call me old-fashioned (because, in fact, I am....not for nothing does minha esposa call me "meu vaio") but if we're improvising units to the mission, what was wrong with "task force X"or if really short-lived, a "reinforced whatever" if you have to "go heavy"...since surnamed units (i.e. "Team Desobry") are out of security/fashion these days. At least everyone understood what you meant in the context mentioned by Bob (though I wonder, from afar, if he meant "Combat Command" as opposed to "Combat Team").

A lot of this unit nomenclature seems like just so much sophistry to this guy. Sorry....just had to vent. Rant mode off. We now return you to our currently serving forces, already in progress. Rolling Eyes


There are still task-organized battalions - that is unless we go to fully combined arms/maneuver battalions at some point... BCTs are Brigades - they just have more responsibility now (wide area of control aka "battlespace").

Divisions may still be necessary for full-out conventional campaigns, if one can still conceive of one...

Its all kinda a normal progression of warfare IMO. Back in Napoleonic times, the division was a tactical level instrument whereas corps and armies did operational level maneuver. I'm sure there was somebody (in fact I know there was) in the 1920s/30s complaining about the division becoming a more important formation due to mechanization, etc so that regiments & brigades took over the tactical battle.

Now we're one more step removed - with brigades at the operational level.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:11 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

In 1999, I was a member of the 'BlackJack' Bde ( 2nd Bde, 1st Cav ) deployment to Bosnia. We replaced 1st Bde, 1st Cav. MND-North was commanded by the 1st Cav CG, which meant we were under 'our own' Divisions control.

Due to rotations, HQ 1st CAV conducted a TOA (Transfer of Authority) to 10th Mtn Div (HQ element) half-way thru our rotation. From that period, till our departure ( several months ) we were 'sliced' to 10th Mtn Div.

I use this 'aged' example, to show that current BCT rotations under a different higher command is not new.

JOE.....I second your 'wish' for the 3rd AD patch. SPEARHEAD !! (how I miss her... Crying or Very sad )
(I'm sure "YAMBO" would agree to that also... Laughing

BTW Joe: I'll forward some 'REAL OLD' photos of the 'ol man' I dug up.

Just my 2 pfennigs.... Wink
Don

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:48 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Doug_Kibbey
At least everyone understood what you meant in the context mentioned by Bob (though I wonder, from afar, if he meant "Combat Command" as opposed to "Combat Team").


I chose my words with care Wink I meant Combat Team as in Regimental Combat Team or Brigade Combat Team. I left off Regiment or Brigade because I wanted to concentrate on the concept that adding Team to the unit size indicated that it was based on the unit (Regiment or Brigade) but supplemented with attached units.

The Combat Command was a subordinate unit in the 1943 style 'light' Armored divison. It was meant to be a headquarters that any portion of the divisions units could be attached to to complete a given mission. I believe the intent was to create two subordinate commands that the division commander could alter at will but I also believe that very quickly the commands became somewhat stable with units being assigned on a semipermanent basis. I don't think the concept survived the war by much.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:19 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- bsmart
- Doug_Kibbey
At least everyone understood what you meant in the context mentioned by Bob (though I wonder, from afar, if he meant "Combat Command" as opposed to "Combat Team").


I chose my words with care Wink


Bob...
As I figgered you would...I'm just not home (or in-country) at the moment and couldn't check my own sources to see if CC or CT was the more precise term. Not that it seems to matter much these days, anyway. Thanks to your clarification, I don't have to do any checking! Wink

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:57 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

No problem, So are we going to see any good pictures from this trip?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum