±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 880
Total: 880
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Your Account
04: Community Forums
05: Member Screenshots
06: News Archive
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Photo Gallery
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Community Forums
15: Search
16: Community Forums
17: Downloads
18: Photo Gallery
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Member Screenshots
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Member Screenshots
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: News Archive
29: Photo Gallery
30: Member Screenshots
31: Photo Gallery
32: News Archive
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Member Screenshots
37: Community Forums
38: Member Screenshots
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Member Screenshots
42: News Archive
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: News Archive
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: Downloads
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Member Screenshots
53: News Archive
54: Member Screenshots
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Downloads
58: News Archive
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Member Screenshots
63: Member Screenshots
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Member Screenshots
68: News Archive
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Downloads
75: Community Forums
76: News Archive
77: News Archive
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Member Screenshots
83: News Archive
84: Community Forums
85: Member Screenshots
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Member Screenshots
89: Community Forums
90: Member Screenshots
91: Member Screenshots
92: Community Forums
93: Member Screenshots
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Home
98: Home
99: Home
100: Home
101: Home
102: Home
103: Member Screenshots
104: Home
105: Home
106: Home
107: News Archive
108: Home
109: News Archive
110: Home
111: Home
112: Downloads
113: Home
114: Home
115: Your Account
116: Home
117: Community Forums
118: Member Screenshots
119: Community Forums
120: News Archive
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: News Archive
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Home
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: News Archive
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: News
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: News Archive
143: Statistics
144: Downloads
145: Home
146: Member Screenshots
147: Member Screenshots
148: Member Screenshots
149: News Archive
150: News Archive
151: Photo Gallery
152: News Archive
153: News Archive
154: Photo Gallery
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Statistics
160: Community Forums
161: Home
162: Member Screenshots
163: Member Screenshots
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Photo Gallery
168: Downloads
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Community Forums
173: Your Account
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: News Archive
179: Community Forums
180: Downloads
181: Member Screenshots
182: Member Screenshots
183: Member Screenshots
184: Member Screenshots
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Member Screenshots
191: News Archive
192: Photo Gallery
193: Community Forums
194: Downloads
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Member Screenshots
201: Member Screenshots
202: Community Forums
203: Member Screenshots
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Downloads
211: Photo Gallery
212: Photo Gallery
213: News Archive
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: News Archive
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Home
222: Home
223: Home
224: Home
225: Home
226: Downloads
227: Home
228: Home
229: Home
230: Home
231: Home
232: Home
233: Home
234: News Archive
235: Member Screenshots
236: News Archive
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Statistics
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Member Screenshots
247: Photo Gallery
248: Community Forums
249: Member Screenshots
250: News Archive
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Downloads
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Home
258: Photo Gallery
259: Home
260: Community Forums
261: News Archive
262: Home
263: Home
264: Home
265: Photo Gallery
266: Community Forums
267: Home
268: Home
269: Home
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Member Screenshots
276: Tell a Friend
277: Home
278: Home
279: Home
280: Treasury
281: Community Forums
282: Downloads
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Downloads
289: Home
290: LinkToUs
291: Member Screenshots
292: Home
293: Home
294: Community Forums
295: Downloads
296: Member Screenshots
297: Home
298: Home
299: Home
300: Photo Gallery
301: Home
302: Home
303: Downloads
304: Home
305: Home
306: Photo Gallery
307: Home
308: Home
309: Home
310: Home
311: News Archive
312: Home
313: Community Forums
314: Member Screenshots
315: Home
316: Community Forums
317: News Archive
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Home
322: Photo Gallery
323: Member Screenshots
324: Photo Gallery
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Home
328: Home
329: Downloads
330: Community Forums
331: Home
332: Community Forums
333: Downloads
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: Member Screenshots
339: Home
340: Home
341: Home
342: Home
343: News Archive
344: Home
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Home
350: Home
351: Downloads
352: Community Forums
353: News Archive
354: Home
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Member Screenshots
358: Downloads
359: Home
360: Member Screenshots
361: Home
362: Community Forums
363: Statistics
364: Downloads
365: Community Forums
366: Home
367: News Archive
368: Photo Gallery
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Member Screenshots
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Photo Gallery
375: Downloads
376: Photo Gallery
377: Home
378: Your Account
379: Home
380: Community Forums
381: Home
382: Home
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Photo Gallery
386: News Archive
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Home
390: Community Forums
391: Downloads
392: Home
393: Home
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: News Archive
397: Home
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Member Screenshots
402: Your Account
403: Home
404: Home
405: Home
406: Home
407: Member Screenshots
408: Home
409: Home
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Home
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Home
419: Community Forums
420: News
421: Downloads
422: Home
423: Photo Gallery
424: Community Forums
425: Home
426: Your Account
427: Community Forums
428: Home
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Photo Gallery
433: Home
434: Home
435: Community Forums
436: Home
437: Community Forums
438: Member Screenshots
439: Home
440: News
441: Member Screenshots
442: Downloads
443: Photo Gallery
444: Community Forums
445: News Archive
446: Photo Gallery
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: News Archive
450: Photo Gallery
451: Community Forums
452: News Archive
453: Photo Gallery
454: Community Forums
455: News Archive
456: Community Forums
457: Photo Gallery
458: Member Screenshots
459: News Archive
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: News Archive
464: Community Forums
465: News Archive
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Downloads
470: Community Forums
471: Your Account
472: Photo Gallery
473: Community Forums
474: Home
475: Member Screenshots
476: Photo Gallery
477: Community Forums
478: Member Screenshots
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Home
485: News Archive
486: Community Forums
487: Downloads
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Photo Gallery
492: Community Forums
493: Home
494: Home
495: Member Screenshots
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Home
499: Home
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Downloads
508: News
509: Supporters
510: Community Forums
511: Member Screenshots
512: Member Screenshots
513: Member Screenshots
514: Downloads
515: News Archive
516: Home
517: Downloads
518: News Archive
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Photo Gallery
522: Photo Gallery
523: Treasury
524: Home
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Home
528: Statistics
529: Member Screenshots
530: Member Screenshots
531: News Archive
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Photo Gallery
536: Community Forums
537: Member Screenshots
538: News Archive
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: News Archive
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: News Archive
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: Home
553: Downloads
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Photo Gallery
557: Home
558: Home
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Member Screenshots
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Photo Gallery
565: Photo Gallery
566: News Archive
567: Community Forums
568: Member Screenshots
569: Photo Gallery
570: News Archive
571: Member Screenshots
572: Community Forums
573: Home
574: Photo Gallery
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: News Archive
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Member Screenshots
581: Member Screenshots
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: News Archive
588: Community Forums
589: Member Screenshots
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: News
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Your Account
602: Community Forums
603: Member Screenshots
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Member Screenshots
608: News Archive
609: Photo Gallery
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: News Archive
613: News Archive
614: Member Screenshots
615: Community Forums
616: Member Screenshots
617: Member Screenshots
618: Member Screenshots
619: Photo Gallery
620: Your Account
621: News
622: Member Screenshots
623: Home
624: Community Forums
625: Home
626: Member Screenshots
627: Community Forums
628: Downloads
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: News Archive
632: Community Forums
633: Tell a Friend
634: News Archive
635: Community Forums
636: Home
637: Member Screenshots
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Member Screenshots
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Home
644: News Archive
645: Community Forums
646: Home
647: News
648: Member Screenshots
649: Community Forums
650: Statistics
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Home
655: Community Forums
656: Home
657: Community Forums
658: News
659: Member Screenshots
660: Downloads
661: Community Forums
662: Community Forums
663: Your Account
664: Community Forums
665: Member Screenshots
666: Photo Gallery
667: Photo Gallery
668: Community Forums
669: Home
670: Home
671: Downloads
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Member Screenshots
675: Photo Gallery
676: Community Forums
677: Member Screenshots
678: Home
679: Photo Gallery
680: Downloads
681: Community Forums
682: Community Forums
683: Home
684: Home
685: Community Forums
686: Home
687: Community Forums
688: Member Screenshots
689: Community Forums
690: Member Screenshots
691: Community Forums
692: Photo Gallery
693: Photo Gallery
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Home
698: Home
699: Supporters
700: Member Screenshots
701: Community Forums
702: Home
703: Home
704: Home
705: Photo Gallery
706: News Archive
707: Home
708: Community Forums
709: Community Forums
710: Community Forums
711: Community Forums
712: Community Forums
713: Home
714: Community Forums
715: Home
716: Community Forums
717: Home
718: Home
719: Photo Gallery
720: Photo Gallery
721: Home
722: Community Forums
723: Home
724: Home
725: Your Account
726: Community Forums
727: Search
728: Home
729: News Archive
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Community Forums
733: Community Forums
734: Home
735: Home
736: Community Forums
737: Community Forums
738: Community Forums
739: Community Forums
740: Home
741: Home
742: Community Forums
743: Community Forums
744: Community Forums
745: Downloads
746: Photo Gallery
747: Home
748: Community Forums
749: Community Forums
750: Community Forums
751: Community Forums
752: News Archive
753: Home
754: News
755: Community Forums
756: Home
757: Community Forums
758: Community Forums
759: Community Forums
760: Home
761: Downloads
762: News Archive
763: Community Forums
764: Home
765: Community Forums
766: Home
767: Community Forums
768: Member Screenshots
769: Community Forums
770: Home
771: Photo Gallery
772: News Archive
773: Community Forums
774: Home
775: Home
776: Community Forums
777: Community Forums
778: Home
779: Community Forums
780: Community Forums
781: Treasury
782: Photo Gallery
783: Community Forums
784: News
785: Photo Gallery
786: News Archive
787: Community Forums
788: Community Forums
789: Community Forums
790: Community Forums
791: Home
792: Community Forums
793: Photo Gallery
794: Home
795: Home
796: Home
797: Home
798: Home
799: Home
800: Community Forums
801: Community Forums
802: Home
803: Home
804: Home
805: Home
806: Community Forums
807: Community Forums
808: Community Forums
809: Photo Gallery
810: Home
811: Community Forums
812: News Archive
813: Photo Gallery
814: Community Forums
815: Home
816: Member Screenshots
817: Community Forums
818: Member Screenshots
819: Photo Gallery
820: Home
821: Home
822: Member Screenshots
823: Community Forums
824: Community Forums
825: Downloads
826: Community Forums
827: Community Forums
828: Home
829: News Archive
830: Community Forums
831: Community Forums
832: News
833: Member Screenshots
834: Home
835: Photo Gallery
836: Member Screenshots
837: Community Forums
838: Home
839: Home
840: Home
841: Home
842: Home
843: Home
844: Community Forums
845: Home
846: Home
847: Home
848: Home
849: Community Forums
850: Home
851: Home
852: Community Forums
853: Home
854: Home
855: Community Forums
856: Community Forums
857: Home
858: Supporters
859: Home
860: Home
861: Community Forums
862: Community Forums
863: Home
864: Home
865: Community Forums
866: Community Forums
867: Home
868: Photo Gallery
869: Member Screenshots
870: Downloads
871: News Archive
872: Community Forums
873: Community Forums
874: Community Forums
875: Community Forums
876: Community Forums
877: Member Screenshots
878: Community Forums
879: Downloads
880: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- bsmart
No problem, So are we going to see any good pictures from this trip?


Bob,
Just home now. Nope, was only in Berlin with no extra time (though there is now something called the "Allied Museum"...don't know what's up with that). Gotta' get with Jens one of these days and do Muenster, but not for a while, though. Rolling Eyes

D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Despite being basically (IMHO) one big monument to German militarism, Berlin actually doesnt have much in the way of military museums. There is however apparently the Luftwaffe museum there (wingie-thingies):
www.luftwaffenmuseum.d...dex_en.htm

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:30 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner
Despite being basically (IMHO) one big monument to German militarism...
Neil


Neil,
So, in that respect, it's pretty much my impression of the IWM-London. Laughing

D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:59 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Doug_Kibbey
- Neil_Baumgardner
Despite being basically (IMHO) one big monument to German militarism...
Neil


Neil,
So, in that respect, it's pretty much my impression of the IWM-London. Laughing

D.


Yeah, but I'm not referring to a museum - I'm referring to the city. While London has the Nelson column and the cenotaph, at least it also has statues of famous prime ministers like Churchill.

Lets see, Berlin has the Siegessäule (victory column), Brandenburg Gate (a victory arch), the Bismarck memorial (complete with an atlas showing Germany's world power status at the end of the 19th century and a woman with a slain panther underfoot, symbolizing the suppression of sedition by the state), and statues of Moltke, von Roon, Frederick the Great, Blucher, Gneisenau, Scharnhorst and Yorck. No statues of prime ministers or other civil leaders that I am aware of... Closest thing is the Neue Wache, which used to be a guard house, but is now the Central Memorial of the Federal Republic of Germany.

www.theberlinobserver....saeule.htm

I guess Berlin just strikes me as an odd contradiction, being the capital of one of the most pacifistic states in Europe, but filled with war memorials...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner

I guess Berlin just strikes me as an odd contradiction, being the capital of one of the most pacifistic states in Europe, but filled with war memorials...

Neil


As an associate of mine said in 1990

"A Unified Germany is the biggest threat to peace that Europe ever has"

Maybe 'modern' Germany is trying to overcome that perception. But then again it's been less than 20 years so far

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- bsmart


As an associate of mine said in 1990

"A Unified Germany is the biggest threat to peace that Europe ever has"


We've gone pretty far OT... But I cant say I agree with that either. In fact, I'd posit that an enforced seperation of the two Germanies would probably have been a greater threat to peace... The resentment that it would have caused, especially in an economically depressed east... The same us (Germans) vs the world (US, UK, France & USSR/Russia) mentality... Calls for Anschluss... Sound familiar?

IMO, getting a unified Germany - and this is the critical part - into NATO was one of the best diplomatic achievements of the post-WWII era. Even Gorbachev realized that a Germany outside of NATO or the Warsaw Pact (albeit falling apart) would have forced the country to reconsider the old security dilemma. Bringing a unified Germany into NATO meant its security was tied with other European countries. And thankfully most Germans today believe this (albeit quite possibly to a fault). This was also helped when NATO expanded to include Poland, so that Germany didnt have to worry about a potentially unstable/unsecured zone to its east.


Maybe 'modern' Germany is trying to overcome that perception. But then again it's been less than 20 years so far


Yeah, I am not really concerned about the state of Germany today at least. I just think that Berlin has certain contradictions as its capital... I just wonder what happens when they're several generations removed from the horrors of WWII and there are still all these monuments around...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey
- bsmart
- Doug_Kibbey
At least everyone understood what you meant in the context mentioned by Bob (though I wonder, from afar, if he meant "Combat Command" as opposed to "Combat Team").


I chose my words with care Wink


Bob...
As I figgered you would...I'm just not home (or in-country) at the moment and couldn't check my own sources to see if CC or CT was the more precise term. Not that it seems to matter much these days, anyway. Thanks to your clarification, I don't have to do any checking! Wink



As I understand it, the Infanty, during the triangular reset, started using the term Combat Team, were the Armored Divisions used the term Combat Command which I think lasted until the Pentomic Ear (1956-1960). After the Army went through the ROAD reset, three Brigades were standard in all divisions, but units under their control came and went just like they did during the triangle set up. "the Combat Command was the parent of the modern brigade." (Note that is in reference to the ROAD brigades).

Sgt, Scouts Out!

Ref: Evolution and Endurance: The U.S. Amry Division in the Twentieth Century by Richard W. Kedzior

www.rand.org/publicati...MR/MR1211/

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

[quote="Neil_Baumgardner"]
- bsmart


I just think that Berlin has certain contradictions as its capital... I just wonder what happens when they're several generations removed from the horrors of WWII and there are still all these monuments around...

Neil


Well, in addition to the abovementioned monuments, they still preserve the Kaiser Wilhelm Kirche (just around the corner from my usual hotel), which can be construed as a monument to what can happen when things get out of hand. Maybe it's a self-as-victim thing for some, but I hope it continues to be preserved. Somebody might be motivated to ask themselves, "I wonder what happened here?"
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Thats very true... That is a good reminder...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I don't think you're going to slide on it that easy Rolling Eyes I can't agree that the army 'assumed' the unit was a division.

Bob, you missed my point, I was thinking a Marine wrote that report using stand WW II Marine terms for an Army unit. When I read it I used Marine terms for the Marine units and converted the Army unit into standard WW II and post terms for divisions.

- bsmart

I've read and heard of many references to units that were Regiments and not Divisons. In fact historically I think most references were to Regiments

I think you are correct up until 1939. After that the Army started dropping the term Regiment which had been the primary combat unit and using the division which had started becoming the primary combat unit. After WWII the Regiment was replaced by the Brigade and complete regiments started to be taken apart.

If you look at the history of the Marines, they almost always id a division as a division. For example the 1st Division is normally written as 1st Marine Division or for short as the 1st MarDiv. Regiments which they still use are almost always id by the number and the title Marines. For example the 13th Regiment is always written as the 13th Marines which by the way is an artillery regiment.

- bsmart

If I say 7th Cav I'll bet you think of the unit that went with Custer to Little Big Horn. That was The 7th Cavalry Regiment.

I agree because in the case of the 7th Cav, there never was a 7th Cav Division therefor no point of confussion.
- bsmart

The Old Guard is the 3rd Infantry that's the 3rd Infantry Regiment not Division.

The one exception to the rule and always a point of confussion unless one adds the terms "Old Guard" or "Regiment" or "ID". The Old Guard if I understand correctly is the last and only full INFANTRY Regiment in the Army.
- bsmart

When Divisions were first created as a standing organizational unit early in the 20th Century the were simply Divisions It was the 1st Division, 29th Division, etc. The 'Infantry' designater did not come until just before WWII, at about the same time they went from Square Divisions (2 Brigades of 2 Regiments each) to Triangular Divisions ....

Up to this point I agree, but when I was thinking the 147th was a Division and not just a regiment, I was thinking in terms that came into use after Triangular Divisions were started and standard terms for regiments that were not part of a division were written as 147th Infantry Regiments or as 147th Infantry (Seperate).

Hope this clears up my muddy and confuzed thinking about Army Regiments (WWII and post) and Army Divisions.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

[quote="Roy_A_Lingle"]Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I don't think you're going to slide on it that easy Rolling Eyes I can't agree that the army 'assumed' the unit was a division.

Bob, you missed my point, I was thinking a Marine wrote that report using stand WW II Marine terms for an Army unit. When I read it I used Marine terms for the Marine units and converted the Army unit into standard WW II and post terms for divisions.

- bsmart

I've read and heard of many references to units that were Regiments and not Divisons. In fact historically I think most references were to Regiments

I think you are correct up until 1939. After that the Army started dropping the term Regiment which had been the primary combat unit and using the division which had started becoming the primary combat unit. After WWII the Regiment was replaced by the Brigade and complete regiments started to be taken apart.
[quote]

But I think Bob's point is correct, even today. If an average US Army soldier says he is with the 1st Infantry, he most liikely means he is in a battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment. I more commonly hear "1st ID" as shorthand for 1st Infantry Division, rather than "1st Infantry." Frankly, I cant remember any instance of hearing someone say "X Infantry" and mean a division...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

But I think Bob's point is correct, even today. If an average US Army soldier says he is with the 1st Infantry, he most liikely means he is in a battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment.


I disgree sir. Not counting the Old Guard, the regiment has almost no meaning after the ROAD reset. I spent four years in an infantry battalion and we always used the term 1st Bn of the 30th Infantry or 3rd ID when talking about our unit. We never used the term 30th Infantry by itself because no one would know which battalion we were with. It was the battalion, not the regiment we were a part of. When learning and teaching history of the unit, it was focused on the battalion and the division histories. Never the Regiment or the Brigade histories.

- Neil_Baumgardner

I more commonly hear "1st ID" as shorthand for 1st Infantry Division, rather than "1st Infantry." Frankly, I cant remember any instance of hearing someone say "X Infantry" and mean a division...


I agree with "hearing someone say", but I am thinking about terms I remember being used in written accounts after the start of WW II and up until the late 1960s or so when people started getting lazy and cutting short just about everything. For example the 1st Infantry became 1st ID and things like M-48 tank became M48 tank.

I guess I am still knee deep in mud with this one.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner
But I think Bob's point is correct, even today. If an average US Army soldier says he is with the 1st Infantry, he most liikely means he is in a battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment. I more commonly hear "1st ID" as shorthand for 1st Infantry Division, rather than "1st Infantry." Frankly, I cant remember any instance of hearing someone say "X Infantry" and mean a division...

Neil
Most soldiers will identify themselves using the two or three (or four) digit number that specifies their battalion/regiment. For example, if a Soldier was in 1st Battalion, 77th Infantry Regiment, he would say he is in 1-77 and pronounce it as "One-Seven-Seven".

I agree that someone in an infantry division would say they were in 3rd ID or 4th ID (versus 3rd Infantry or 4th Infantry), but if someone said they were in 1st Armor or 1st Cav, they would definitely be referring to 1st Armor Division or 1st Cavalry Division and not to the 1st Armor Regiment or 1st Cavalry Regiment.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Roy, everyone,
I have to agree with Roy that I've never heard anyone refer to their battalion sized unit as 1st Infantry or so forth, The norm since I've been in has been 1st ID, 3rd AD, 1st CAV, 4ID and etc when it comes to divisions. Seperate brigades were always just mentioned by their number, like 197th, 194th, 177th, 172nd and so forth. Everyone I worked with pretty much knew who they were and what they were. The only exception to the battalion rule was Korea. But then they were refered to as 1st and 2nd Tank (or Duece Tank), not 72nd Armor. As far as unit history we learned the Battalion's, so 1-72 would be different than 2-72's because 1-72 drew theirs from A Company, 72nd Armor and 2-72's was B Company. That was a simpler one, others like 63rd were originally the 745th Tank Destoyer Battalion, so it could get quite confusing. Doesn't help when you PCS every 2 years. To this day I dread some one asking me about my units history, mostly because my memory is a jumble of different history's mixed together from various Tank/Cavalry/Infantry units.

Just my 2 bits in this thread.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Agree with Roy also, though must add to Joe's comments that units like the 199th, 326th and 327th usually had "Infantry" (or Light Infantry, where applicable) attached.

I never heard anyone actually say "regiment" when referring to Cav units like the 17th or 11th. It was taken as given.

Referring to Rob's statements....in the OLD days (meaning VN era), soldiers usually extended that shorthand out to statements like "4th of the 77th" or "1st of the 326th", or whatever, rather than 4-77 or four-seven-seven.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum