±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 602
Total: 602
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Your Account
04: Home
05: Home
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Downloads
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: News Archive
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Home
20: Home
21: Member Screenshots
22: Home
23: News
24: Photo Gallery
25: Photo Gallery
26: Statistics
27: Community Forums
28: Downloads
29: Community Forums
30: Home
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Photo Gallery
42: Member Screenshots
43: Downloads
44: Photo Gallery
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: News Archive
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Statistics
54: Photo Gallery
55: Downloads
56: Photo Gallery
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Downloads
61: News
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Member Screenshots
70: Community Forums
71: Photo Gallery
72: Home
73: Photo Gallery
74: Member Screenshots
75: Photo Gallery
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Photo Gallery
79: Photo Gallery
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Home
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Member Screenshots
90: Member Screenshots
91: Home
92: Downloads
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: News
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Downloads
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Statistics
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Home
107: Home
108: Statistics
109: Community Forums
110: Home
111: Photo Gallery
112: Photo Gallery
113: Downloads
114: Community Forums
115: Home
116: Home
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Member Screenshots
126: Statistics
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Downloads
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Home
140: Community Forums
141: News Archive
142: Community Forums
143: News Archive
144: Community Forums
145: Member Screenshots
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Photo Gallery
153: Member Screenshots
154: Home
155: Member Screenshots
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Your Account
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Home
162: Home
163: Home
164: Home
165: Home
166: Home
167: Home
168: Home
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Downloads
173: Home
174: Home
175: Home
176: Home
177: Community Forums
178: News Archive
179: Member Screenshots
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Photo Gallery
184: Member Screenshots
185: Community Forums
186: Statistics
187: Community Forums
188: Member Screenshots
189: Statistics
190: Home
191: Home
192: Home
193: Home
194: Statistics
195: Photo Gallery
196: Photo Gallery
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Member Screenshots
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Member Screenshots
207: Photo Gallery
208: Community Forums
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: News Archive
214: Home
215: Home
216: Your Account
217: Downloads
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Home
224: Home
225: Member Screenshots
226: Statistics
227: Home
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Photo Gallery
231: Photo Gallery
232: Home
233: Home
234: Home
235: Photo Gallery
236: Member Screenshots
237: Downloads
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Downloads
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Photo Gallery
253: Community Forums
254: Member Screenshots
255: Member Screenshots
256: Downloads
257: News
258: Member Screenshots
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Your Account
265: Your Account
266: Community Forums
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Member Screenshots
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Member Screenshots
275: Member Screenshots
276: News
277: Home
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: News Archive
283: Community Forums
284: Downloads
285: Community Forums
286: Photo Gallery
287: Community Forums
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Member Screenshots
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Photo Gallery
302: Home
303: Community Forums
304: Member Screenshots
305: Community Forums
306: Member Screenshots
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Your Account
310: Community Forums
311: Downloads
312: Photo Gallery
313: Home
314: Community Forums
315: Downloads
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Home
320: Community Forums
321: Home
322: Community Forums
323: Search
324: Home
325: Home
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Photo Gallery
330: Member Screenshots
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Home
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Member Screenshots
339: Community Forums
340: Photo Gallery
341: Photo Gallery
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Your Account
349: Your Account
350: Community Forums
351: Home
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Photo Gallery
356: Photo Gallery
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Photo Gallery
360: Photo Gallery
361: Home
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Home
365: Community Forums
366: Photo Gallery
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Home
370: Member Screenshots
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Your Account
374: Downloads
375: Community Forums
376: Photo Gallery
377: Home
378: Photo Gallery
379: Photo Gallery
380: Home
381: Photo Gallery
382: Community Forums
383: Home
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: News
388: Statistics
389: Photo Gallery
390: Home
391: Home
392: Community Forums
393: Home
394: Downloads
395: News Archive
396: Community Forums
397: Home
398: Home
399: Downloads
400: Community Forums
401: Home
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Home
408: Photo Gallery
409: Community Forums
410: Photo Gallery
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Statistics
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: News
419: Home
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Downloads
423: Home
424: Statistics
425: Downloads
426: Photo Gallery
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Downloads
432: Community Forums
433: Home
434: Community Forums
435: Home
436: Home
437: Home
438: Home
439: Member Screenshots
440: Member Screenshots
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Home
444: Community Forums
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Photo Gallery
449: Photo Gallery
450: Photo Gallery
451: Community Forums
452: Statistics
453: News Archive
454: Community Forums
455: Member Screenshots
456: Home
457: Member Screenshots
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: News Archive
461: Statistics
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Photo Gallery
466: Photo Gallery
467: Photo Gallery
468: Home
469: Home
470: Community Forums
471: Downloads
472: Home
473: Home
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Downloads
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: News Archive
481: Photo Gallery
482: Member Screenshots
483: Photo Gallery
484: Community Forums
485: Statistics
486: Home
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Home
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Home
493: Community Forums
494: Home
495: Community Forums
496: News Archive
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Member Screenshots
500: Home
501: Downloads
502: Photo Gallery
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Statistics
506: Downloads
507: Community Forums
508: Home
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Home
512: Home
513: Home
514: News Archive
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Statistics
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Member Screenshots
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Photo Gallery
524: Photo Gallery
525: Home
526: Member Screenshots
527: Community Forums
528: Downloads
529: Photo Gallery
530: Home
531: Community Forums
532: Photo Gallery
533: Member Screenshots
534: Community Forums
535: Home
536: Home
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Home
541: Photo Gallery
542: Member Screenshots
543: Member Screenshots
544: News Archive
545: Downloads
546: Downloads
547: Home
548: Member Screenshots
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: News Archive
553: Community Forums
554: Photo Gallery
555: Member Screenshots
556: News Archive
557: Community Forums
558: Photo Gallery
559: Photo Gallery
560: Community Forums
561: Home
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Photo Gallery
567: Statistics
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: News Archive
571: News Archive
572: Community Forums
573: Photo Gallery
574: Photo Gallery
575: Home
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Downloads
580: Statistics
581: Member Screenshots
582: Community Forums
583: Member Screenshots
584: Community Forums
585: Downloads
586: Downloads
587: Member Screenshots
588: Home
589: Home
590: Home
591: Community Forums
592: Home
593: Home
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Home
600: Home
601: Community Forums
602: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- bsmart
No problem, So are we going to see any good pictures from this trip?


Bob,
Just home now. Nope, was only in Berlin with no extra time (though there is now something called the "Allied Museum"...don't know what's up with that). Gotta' get with Jens one of these days and do Muenster, but not for a while, though. Rolling Eyes

D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Despite being basically (IMHO) one big monument to German militarism, Berlin actually doesnt have much in the way of military museums. There is however apparently the Luftwaffe museum there (wingie-thingies):
www.luftwaffenmuseum.d...dex_en.htm

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:30 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner
Despite being basically (IMHO) one big monument to German militarism...
Neil


Neil,
So, in that respect, it's pretty much my impression of the IWM-London. Laughing

D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:59 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Doug_Kibbey
- Neil_Baumgardner
Despite being basically (IMHO) one big monument to German militarism...
Neil


Neil,
So, in that respect, it's pretty much my impression of the IWM-London. Laughing

D.


Yeah, but I'm not referring to a museum - I'm referring to the city. While London has the Nelson column and the cenotaph, at least it also has statues of famous prime ministers like Churchill.

Lets see, Berlin has the Siegessäule (victory column), Brandenburg Gate (a victory arch), the Bismarck memorial (complete with an atlas showing Germany's world power status at the end of the 19th century and a woman with a slain panther underfoot, symbolizing the suppression of sedition by the state), and statues of Moltke, von Roon, Frederick the Great, Blucher, Gneisenau, Scharnhorst and Yorck. No statues of prime ministers or other civil leaders that I am aware of... Closest thing is the Neue Wache, which used to be a guard house, but is now the Central Memorial of the Federal Republic of Germany.

www.theberlinobserver....saeule.htm

I guess Berlin just strikes me as an odd contradiction, being the capital of one of the most pacifistic states in Europe, but filled with war memorials...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner

I guess Berlin just strikes me as an odd contradiction, being the capital of one of the most pacifistic states in Europe, but filled with war memorials...

Neil


As an associate of mine said in 1990

"A Unified Germany is the biggest threat to peace that Europe ever has"

Maybe 'modern' Germany is trying to overcome that perception. But then again it's been less than 20 years so far

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- bsmart


As an associate of mine said in 1990

"A Unified Germany is the biggest threat to peace that Europe ever has"


We've gone pretty far OT... But I cant say I agree with that either. In fact, I'd posit that an enforced seperation of the two Germanies would probably have been a greater threat to peace... The resentment that it would have caused, especially in an economically depressed east... The same us (Germans) vs the world (US, UK, France & USSR/Russia) mentality... Calls for Anschluss... Sound familiar?

IMO, getting a unified Germany - and this is the critical part - into NATO was one of the best diplomatic achievements of the post-WWII era. Even Gorbachev realized that a Germany outside of NATO or the Warsaw Pact (albeit falling apart) would have forced the country to reconsider the old security dilemma. Bringing a unified Germany into NATO meant its security was tied with other European countries. And thankfully most Germans today believe this (albeit quite possibly to a fault). This was also helped when NATO expanded to include Poland, so that Germany didnt have to worry about a potentially unstable/unsecured zone to its east.


Maybe 'modern' Germany is trying to overcome that perception. But then again it's been less than 20 years so far


Yeah, I am not really concerned about the state of Germany today at least. I just think that Berlin has certain contradictions as its capital... I just wonder what happens when they're several generations removed from the horrors of WWII and there are still all these monuments around...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey
- bsmart
- Doug_Kibbey
At least everyone understood what you meant in the context mentioned by Bob (though I wonder, from afar, if he meant "Combat Command" as opposed to "Combat Team").


I chose my words with care Wink


Bob...
As I figgered you would...I'm just not home (or in-country) at the moment and couldn't check my own sources to see if CC or CT was the more precise term. Not that it seems to matter much these days, anyway. Thanks to your clarification, I don't have to do any checking! Wink



As I understand it, the Infanty, during the triangular reset, started using the term Combat Team, were the Armored Divisions used the term Combat Command which I think lasted until the Pentomic Ear (1956-1960). After the Army went through the ROAD reset, three Brigades were standard in all divisions, but units under their control came and went just like they did during the triangle set up. "the Combat Command was the parent of the modern brigade." (Note that is in reference to the ROAD brigades).

Sgt, Scouts Out!

Ref: Evolution and Endurance: The U.S. Amry Division in the Twentieth Century by Richard W. Kedzior

www.rand.org/publicati...MR/MR1211/

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

[quote="Neil_Baumgardner"]
- bsmart


I just think that Berlin has certain contradictions as its capital... I just wonder what happens when they're several generations removed from the horrors of WWII and there are still all these monuments around...

Neil


Well, in addition to the abovementioned monuments, they still preserve the Kaiser Wilhelm Kirche (just around the corner from my usual hotel), which can be construed as a monument to what can happen when things get out of hand. Maybe it's a self-as-victim thing for some, but I hope it continues to be preserved. Somebody might be motivated to ask themselves, "I wonder what happened here?"
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Thats very true... That is a good reminder...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I don't think you're going to slide on it that easy Rolling Eyes I can't agree that the army 'assumed' the unit was a division.

Bob, you missed my point, I was thinking a Marine wrote that report using stand WW II Marine terms for an Army unit. When I read it I used Marine terms for the Marine units and converted the Army unit into standard WW II and post terms for divisions.

- bsmart

I've read and heard of many references to units that were Regiments and not Divisons. In fact historically I think most references were to Regiments

I think you are correct up until 1939. After that the Army started dropping the term Regiment which had been the primary combat unit and using the division which had started becoming the primary combat unit. After WWII the Regiment was replaced by the Brigade and complete regiments started to be taken apart.

If you look at the history of the Marines, they almost always id a division as a division. For example the 1st Division is normally written as 1st Marine Division or for short as the 1st MarDiv. Regiments which they still use are almost always id by the number and the title Marines. For example the 13th Regiment is always written as the 13th Marines which by the way is an artillery regiment.

- bsmart

If I say 7th Cav I'll bet you think of the unit that went with Custer to Little Big Horn. That was The 7th Cavalry Regiment.

I agree because in the case of the 7th Cav, there never was a 7th Cav Division therefor no point of confussion.
- bsmart

The Old Guard is the 3rd Infantry that's the 3rd Infantry Regiment not Division.

The one exception to the rule and always a point of confussion unless one adds the terms "Old Guard" or "Regiment" or "ID". The Old Guard if I understand correctly is the last and only full INFANTRY Regiment in the Army.
- bsmart

When Divisions were first created as a standing organizational unit early in the 20th Century the were simply Divisions It was the 1st Division, 29th Division, etc. The 'Infantry' designater did not come until just before WWII, at about the same time they went from Square Divisions (2 Brigades of 2 Regiments each) to Triangular Divisions ....

Up to this point I agree, but when I was thinking the 147th was a Division and not just a regiment, I was thinking in terms that came into use after Triangular Divisions were started and standard terms for regiments that were not part of a division were written as 147th Infantry Regiments or as 147th Infantry (Seperate).

Hope this clears up my muddy and confuzed thinking about Army Regiments (WWII and post) and Army Divisions.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

[quote="Roy_A_Lingle"]Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I don't think you're going to slide on it that easy Rolling Eyes I can't agree that the army 'assumed' the unit was a division.

Bob, you missed my point, I was thinking a Marine wrote that report using stand WW II Marine terms for an Army unit. When I read it I used Marine terms for the Marine units and converted the Army unit into standard WW II and post terms for divisions.

- bsmart

I've read and heard of many references to units that were Regiments and not Divisons. In fact historically I think most references were to Regiments

I think you are correct up until 1939. After that the Army started dropping the term Regiment which had been the primary combat unit and using the division which had started becoming the primary combat unit. After WWII the Regiment was replaced by the Brigade and complete regiments started to be taken apart.
[quote]

But I think Bob's point is correct, even today. If an average US Army soldier says he is with the 1st Infantry, he most liikely means he is in a battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment. I more commonly hear "1st ID" as shorthand for 1st Infantry Division, rather than "1st Infantry." Frankly, I cant remember any instance of hearing someone say "X Infantry" and mean a division...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

But I think Bob's point is correct, even today. If an average US Army soldier says he is with the 1st Infantry, he most liikely means he is in a battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment.


I disgree sir. Not counting the Old Guard, the regiment has almost no meaning after the ROAD reset. I spent four years in an infantry battalion and we always used the term 1st Bn of the 30th Infantry or 3rd ID when talking about our unit. We never used the term 30th Infantry by itself because no one would know which battalion we were with. It was the battalion, not the regiment we were a part of. When learning and teaching history of the unit, it was focused on the battalion and the division histories. Never the Regiment or the Brigade histories.

- Neil_Baumgardner

I more commonly hear "1st ID" as shorthand for 1st Infantry Division, rather than "1st Infantry." Frankly, I cant remember any instance of hearing someone say "X Infantry" and mean a division...


I agree with "hearing someone say", but I am thinking about terms I remember being used in written accounts after the start of WW II and up until the late 1960s or so when people started getting lazy and cutting short just about everything. For example the 1st Infantry became 1st ID and things like M-48 tank became M48 tank.

I guess I am still knee deep in mud with this one.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner
But I think Bob's point is correct, even today. If an average US Army soldier says he is with the 1st Infantry, he most liikely means he is in a battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment. I more commonly hear "1st ID" as shorthand for 1st Infantry Division, rather than "1st Infantry." Frankly, I cant remember any instance of hearing someone say "X Infantry" and mean a division...

Neil
Most soldiers will identify themselves using the two or three (or four) digit number that specifies their battalion/regiment. For example, if a Soldier was in 1st Battalion, 77th Infantry Regiment, he would say he is in 1-77 and pronounce it as "One-Seven-Seven".

I agree that someone in an infantry division would say they were in 3rd ID or 4th ID (versus 3rd Infantry or 4th Infantry), but if someone said they were in 1st Armor or 1st Cav, they would definitely be referring to 1st Armor Division or 1st Cavalry Division and not to the 1st Armor Regiment or 1st Cavalry Regiment.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Roy, everyone,
I have to agree with Roy that I've never heard anyone refer to their battalion sized unit as 1st Infantry or so forth, The norm since I've been in has been 1st ID, 3rd AD, 1st CAV, 4ID and etc when it comes to divisions. Seperate brigades were always just mentioned by their number, like 197th, 194th, 177th, 172nd and so forth. Everyone I worked with pretty much knew who they were and what they were. The only exception to the battalion rule was Korea. But then they were refered to as 1st and 2nd Tank (or Duece Tank), not 72nd Armor. As far as unit history we learned the Battalion's, so 1-72 would be different than 2-72's because 1-72 drew theirs from A Company, 72nd Armor and 2-72's was B Company. That was a simpler one, others like 63rd were originally the 745th Tank Destoyer Battalion, so it could get quite confusing. Doesn't help when you PCS every 2 years. To this day I dread some one asking me about my units history, mostly because my memory is a jumble of different history's mixed together from various Tank/Cavalry/Infantry units.

Just my 2 bits in this thread.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Agree with Roy also, though must add to Joe's comments that units like the 199th, 326th and 327th usually had "Infantry" (or Light Infantry, where applicable) attached.

I never heard anyone actually say "regiment" when referring to Cav units like the 17th or 11th. It was taken as given.

Referring to Rob's statements....in the OLD days (meaning VN era), soldiers usually extended that shorthand out to statements like "4th of the 77th" or "1st of the 326th", or whatever, rather than 4-77 or four-seven-seven.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum