±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 487
Total: 487
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Home
04: Home
05: News Archive
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Statistics
09: Photo Gallery
10: Member Screenshots
11: Home
12: Member Screenshots
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: News Archive
16: Member Screenshots
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: Home
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Photo Gallery
23: Photo Gallery
24: Search
25: Home
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Member Screenshots
31: Downloads
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Member Screenshots
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Home
38: Member Screenshots
39: News Archive
40: Member Screenshots
41: Home
42: News Archive
43: Home
44: Home
45: Home
46: Downloads
47: Member Screenshots
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Photo Gallery
52: Home
53: Downloads
54: News Archive
55: Member Screenshots
56: Photo Gallery
57: Home
58: Home
59: Home
60: Home
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Downloads
64: Downloads
65: Home
66: Member Screenshots
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Home
70: Member Screenshots
71: Member Screenshots
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Downloads
75: Photo Gallery
76: Photo Gallery
77: Community Forums
78: Member Screenshots
79: Home
80: Member Screenshots
81: Downloads
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Home
85: Home
86: Home
87: Home
88: Statistics
89: Photo Gallery
90: Member Screenshots
91: Home
92: Home
93: Member Screenshots
94: Home
95: LinkToUs
96: Member Screenshots
97: Statistics
98: Member Screenshots
99: Home
100: Home
101: Photo Gallery
102: Member Screenshots
103: Photo Gallery
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Home
110: Home
111: News Archive
112: Home
113: Statistics
114: Community Forums
115: Member Screenshots
116: Photo Gallery
117: Home
118: Photo Gallery
119: Home
120: Member Screenshots
121: Home
122: Photo Gallery
123: Downloads
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Home
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Home
131: Member Screenshots
132: Community Forums
133: Downloads
134: Home
135: Home
136: Member Screenshots
137: Home
138: Member Screenshots
139: Supporters
140: Home
141: Home
142: Member Screenshots
143: Home
144: Photo Gallery
145: Home
146: Member Screenshots
147: Home
148: Member Screenshots
149: Member Screenshots
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Home
153: Downloads
154: Statistics
155: Home
156: Photo Gallery
157: Home
158: Home
159: News Archive
160: Home
161: Downloads
162: News Archive
163: Member Screenshots
164: Home
165: Photo Gallery
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Photo Gallery
169: Home
170: Home
171: Your Account
172: Home
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: Home
176: Home
177: Home
178: Photo Gallery
179: Home
180: Home
181: Photo Gallery
182: Photo Gallery
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Member Screenshots
187: Home
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Member Screenshots
191: Statistics
192: Downloads
193: Member Screenshots
194: Community Forums
195: Member Screenshots
196: Home
197: Home
198: Home
199: Community Forums
200: Home
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Home
204: Home
205: Home
206: Home
207: Photo Gallery
208: Downloads
209: Home
210: Photo Gallery
211: Home
212: Home
213: Member Screenshots
214: Member Screenshots
215: Member Screenshots
216: Photo Gallery
217: Home
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Home
222: Home
223: Home
224: Community Forums
225: Photo Gallery
226: Member Screenshots
227: Downloads
228: Community Forums
229: Home
230: Home
231: Member Screenshots
232: Photo Gallery
233: Photo Gallery
234: Photo Gallery
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Downloads
238: Home
239: Downloads
240: Photo Gallery
241: Home
242: News Archive
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Member Screenshots
246: Home
247: Home
248: Member Screenshots
249: Home
250: Photo Gallery
251: Member Screenshots
252: Statistics
253: Photo Gallery
254: Member Screenshots
255: Photo Gallery
256: Community Forums
257: Home
258: Home
259: Home
260: Home
261: Downloads
262: Home
263: Home
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Photo Gallery
268: Photo Gallery
269: Photo Gallery
270: Community Forums
271: Photo Gallery
272: Home
273: Home
274: Member Screenshots
275: Downloads
276: Home
277: Member Screenshots
278: Home
279: Downloads
280: Statistics
281: Community Forums
282: Home
283: Home
284: Home
285: Home
286: Home
287: Home
288: Home
289: Home
290: Photo Gallery
291: Home
292: Member Screenshots
293: Member Screenshots
294: Downloads
295: Member Screenshots
296: Downloads
297: Statistics
298: Community Forums
299: Home
300: Home
301: Home
302: Home
303: Home
304: News
305: Home
306: Home
307: Home
308: Home
309: Photo Gallery
310: Member Screenshots
311: Community Forums
312: News Archive
313: Photo Gallery
314: Community Forums
315: Home
316: Home
317: Community Forums
318: Downloads
319: Photo Gallery
320: Member Screenshots
321: Photo Gallery
322: Downloads
323: Community Forums
324: Home
325: Home
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Member Screenshots
330: News Archive
331: Community Forums
332: Home
333: News
334: Home
335: Home
336: Home
337: Downloads
338: Member Screenshots
339: Member Screenshots
340: Community Forums
341: Photo Gallery
342: Home
343: Home
344: Member Screenshots
345: Community Forums
346: Home
347: Home
348: Member Screenshots
349: Community Forums
350: Member Screenshots
351: Home
352: Community Forums
353: Home
354: Home
355: Community Forums
356: Photo Gallery
357: Home
358: Community Forums
359: Home
360: Home
361: Community Forums
362: Home
363: Photo Gallery
364: Home
365: Member Screenshots
366: Downloads
367: Home
368: Home
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Home
372: Home
373: Home
374: Home
375: Home
376: Home
377: Home
378: Member Screenshots
379: Member Screenshots
380: Home
381: Home
382: Member Screenshots
383: Home
384: Downloads
385: Home
386: Member Screenshots
387: Home
388: Member Screenshots
389: Member Screenshots
390: Home
391: Home
392: Home
393: Community Forums
394: Home
395: Community Forums
396: Downloads
397: Home
398: Downloads
399: Home
400: Home
401: Home
402: Community Forums
403: Home
404: Home
405: Home
406: Community Forums
407: Home
408: Community Forums
409: Home
410: Member Screenshots
411: Member Screenshots
412: Home
413: Member Screenshots
414: Home
415: Member Screenshots
416: Home
417: Home
418: Community Forums
419: Home
420: Home
421: Photo Gallery
422: Home
423: Home
424: Home
425: Home
426: Community Forums
427: Downloads
428: Home
429: Community Forums
430: Home
431: Photo Gallery
432: Community Forums
433: Downloads
434: Home
435: Home
436: Community Forums
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Home
440: Home
441: Photo Gallery
442: Member Screenshots
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Member Screenshots
446: Photo Gallery
447: Community Forums
448: Member Screenshots
449: Community Forums
450: Photo Gallery
451: Home
452: Member Screenshots
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Photo Gallery
456: News Archive
457: Community Forums
458: Home
459: Home
460: Community Forums
461: Home
462: Member Screenshots
463: Downloads
464: Home
465: Home
466: Photo Gallery
467: Home
468: Home
469: Home
470: Home
471: Home
472: Photo Gallery
473: Downloads
474: Community Forums
475: Home
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Member Screenshots
480: Home
481: Member Screenshots
482: Home
483: Home
484: Your Account
485: Home
486: Home
487: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:37 pm
Post subject: I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.

Hi Folks!

A fellow model club member was showing me an old Squadron/Signal book, "Ground War-Vietanm Vol. 1 1945-1965", number 6053.

He had ran acrossed this photo of an ARVN M113 mounting a turret I had never noticed until today. Surprised The back cover of the book has a drawing/painting of two such vehicles. After getting home, I pulled out my Hunnicutt Bradley book and starting looking though the M113 section. No such turret listed. There are two photos in the In-Service section of an ARVN M113 with this turret. I did find something like this turret in the M113 and 1/2 section called a FMC M74 with twin machine guns and Model 100-E for a single machine gun mount.


Does anyone know anything about these turrets? In all my time around M113s and 18 months in Vietnam seeing ARVN M113s, I have never noticed this set up before.

I am seeing a conversion project in the works that will blow a model contest judge's mine! Twisted Evil

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:31 pm
Post subject: Re: I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.

- Roy_A_Lingle

I am seeing a conversion project in the works that will blow a model contest judge's mine! Twisted Evil


Sgt, Scouts Out!



...and there was much rejoicing! Laughing

Seriously, I've never seen one either...nor on the Product Improved M113 A1 models in my brochure. I saw the one in Hunnicutt, and wondered if it might be a naval mount adapted from a patrol boat or something.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:30 pm
Post subject: Re: I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.

The turret looks to be the same off of the V-100, of which the RSVN was equipt.

I think I have seen this version before, but it never really made an impression on me to think it was unique.

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:18 am
Post subject: Re: I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.

Looks rounder and dome-ier than the ones I find on V100 Commando's. Fer example:

www.intlrepo-depo.com/...ndo%20.jpg
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:45 am
Post subject: Re: I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.

- Doug_Kibbey
Looks rounder and dome-ier than the ones I find on V100 Commando's. Fer example:

www.intlrepo-depo.com/...ndo%20.jpg


Doug

Mr. Green ... Funny you should use that particular vehicle. I toyed with the idea of owning a V100. Of the few available on the market (at that time)...I made inquiries. Shocked A bit too 'steep' for me....

I gave up the V100 idea,.... stuck with aquiring another type,.... Rolling Eyes

Anyway, thought the turret looked similiar....without any references.


_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Coldsteel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:22 am
Post subject: Re: I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.

Aircraft Armaments Incorporated Model 74C Cupola/Command Station
US designation XM30
Used on M113 by the ARVN and about 20 were acquired by Australia for use on M113s before being replaced by the Cadillac Gage T50 turret as used on the V-100 Commando.
Back to top
View user's profile
Coldsteel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:16 am
Post subject: Re: I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.

here you go, a few more pictures and information on Australian use.
www.mheaust.com.au/Aus...74/M74.htm
Back to top
View user's profile
Coldsteel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:36 am
Post subject: Re: I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.

posted by buglerbilly here earlier from Defense Industry Daily

Everything old is new again Smile

Note the turret, now that would make an interesting model!
from sitrep1.tripod.com/mem...oto_album/
Back to top
View user's profile
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:20 pm
Post subject: Re: I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.

Looks like the turret Academy includes with their Vietnam era M113A1 kit. Along with the standard cupola and ACAV armor, they also include the twin .30 cal Aussie turret and M132 flame thrower turret.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Al_Bowie
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:29 am
Post subject: Re: I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.

Roy, the Aussies and RSVN troops used the CG 74 turret on the 113s during the VN period. The Aussies abandon the T74 and went for the larger (although still small) CG T50 turret which is still in service today albeit with 50/30 combo as opposed to the twin 30's.
The Academy VN era 113 kit has the t50 and the US flame turret which was based on the 74. Verlinden also did a set of 113 turrets which included both the t50 and the T74 from memory. I'll see If I can find some pics of Aussie ones with the T74.

Al Bowie
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:35 am
Post subject: Re: I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.

- Coldsteel
here you go, a few more pictures and information on Australian use.
www.mheaust.com.au/Aus...74/M74.htm


Clipped from the linked page, "Firepower was provided by two L3A3 .30 calibre electrically fired machine guns. Turret traverse and weapon elevation was manual"

What is an L3A3? A Browning M1919A4 in 30-06, in 7.62NATO, or the M73 with the very short receiver? My 12th Ed Small Arms of the World is mute on Oz AFV weapons.
Back to top
View user's profile
Coldsteel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:38 am
Post subject: Re: I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.

- Maple_Leaf_Eh

What is an L3A3? A Browning M1919A4 in 30-06, in 7.62NATO, or the M73 with the very short receiver? My 12th Ed Small Arms of the World is mute on Oz AFV weapons.

I'm not completely sure, Australia was unable to obtain either the M73, or the M37 (for which the turret was designed) and so the 74C turrets were ordered from AAI with one gun port blanked off and ready to mount the standard MG in use with the RAAC, "the Browning .30-inch M1919A4"*, so presumably that is the L3A3 or it's a typo.

*AMEP Vol 4, the M113 and M113A1 APC in Australian Service 1962 to 1972.
Back to top
View user's profile
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:31 am
Post subject: Re: I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.

Did a little "Google"ing,
Seems like the L3A3/4 is the Browning M1919 modified with an open sear. Not sure what it was chambered at but it kinda alluded to 7.62 NATO. Makes sense, in a confined cupola it's quicker to reload when all you have to do is put the ammo in and not retract the bolt back to fire. The M2 TT .50 cal bolt doesn't lock to the rear either (Another Browning Design) when rounds are expended. So you have to charge the bolt before firing again. Didn't have that problem with the M85. About not getting the M-73/219 system. Smart move, both were absolute junk as a Co-axial MG.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:05 pm
Post subject: Re: I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.

- Joe_D
So you have to charge the bolt before firing again. Didn't have that problem with the M85. About not getting the M-73/219 system. Smart move, both were absolute junk as a Co-axial MG.

Joe D


Tell it, Brother. I can testify as well. Even tested some of the unheralded variants of that system and even the M219 (somewhat "improved" M73)" was absolute junk. You can't put three pounds of crap into a two pound bag and that's basically what they tried to do (with M85 to an extent also, of which I'm also not a fan, though the high ROF mode was fun when it worked). M73 family used an overcammed, underleveraged receiver and a really poorly thought out feed mechanism. Then it all fit ever so snugly against the forward turret such that service-in-a-hurry (likely to be needed) in the field was out of the question. A quick-detach device was developed to try to save the bacon of the poor crew who needed to get it out in a hurry.

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:37 pm
Post subject: Re: I didn't know FMC offered the M113 with this turret.

Doug,
When I was a young SGT I worked with a veteran TC who told me the reason why they called the improved CO-AX M219 was because it was 3 times worse than the M73. Then God gave us the M240 and all our problems ceased. I always wondered why the rest of the Army took so long to adopt it. It is a just fantastic piece of equipment. About the M85, I know I am in the minority but I guess by the time I came in the bugs had been worked out. I always loved it.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum