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Jason_Bobrowich · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Aug 09, 2006 Posts: 71

Here's some newly posted images on Combat Camera of the Canadian Leopard C2s in Afghanistan.

www.combatcamera.force...mbatcamera

www.combatcamera.force...mbatcamera

www.combatcamera.force...mbatcamera

J.McGillivray · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 149

NATO troops mass to root out Taliban
Last Updated: Friday, December 15, 2006 | 1:32 PM ET
CBC News
Armoured columns of NATO troops rolled into the southern Afghan province of Kandahar on Friday to launch a major military operation in the volatile Panjwaii district.
The British-led operation, which also includes Canadian, Estonian and Danish troops, is one of the largest operations since Canadian troops led Operation Medusa in September to root out the Taliban in the same district.
Operation Falcon's Summit, or Baaz Tsuka in the Afghan language, is intended to build on the success of Operation Medusa with the aim of creating stability so reconstruction projects can begin, NATO said in a news release Friday.
The alliance is leading the International Security Assistance Force, a coalition of troops from 37 nations trying to bring peace to Afghanistan.
Maj.-Gen. Ton Van Loon, commander of ISAF in the south, said the operation is a "show of unity and strength" and a demonstration by ISAF of its ability to combat and defeat the Taliban.
The alliance consulted with tribal elders and district leaders before embarking on the operation, which was planned with the help of Afghan security forces, Van Loon said.
"Operation Baaz Tsuka will send a very strong and direct message to the Taliban that the people of Afghanistan want them to leave," he said in the release. "Those people contemplating joining the Taliban should listen to their tribal elders and choose the way of peace, not destruction."
Canada has more than 2,000 troops in Afghanistan, with the majority stationed in southern Afghanistan. Canadian military officials in Kandahar declined to comment on the operation.
'Take out the Taliban'
CBC's Laurie Graham reported Friday from the Panjwaii district in Kandahar that NATO is enlisting the help of the Afghan National Army and provincial reconstruction teams, which consist of military and civilian members, in the operation.
"It's all in an effort to take out the Taliban. The goal is to get into villages and to help the locals take back their towns but in order to do that, they have to take the Taliban out," she said.
Graham said the troops are getting ready in Kandahar.
"The sky was very busy today, with a lot of choppers flying around. On the ground, troops are very busy, preparing their weapons, adding ammunition. There is a lot of action on the bases in the south. Canada will definitely be a part of this, but the specifics are not to be reported."
Troops on the move
According to a Reuters news report, hundreds of NATO troops were on the move overnight Thursday, having left their base in nearby Helmand province to set up a camp in the desert north of the Arghindab River valley. The area is said to be a Taliban stronghold.
"We're here on an intelligence-led mission against the Taliban," operation commander Lt.-Col. Matt Holmes told Reuters. "You can tell by the size of our presence that we mean business."
In recent months, NATO troops have been the target of a number of suicide bombings.
On Friday, two separate suicide bomb attacks killed at least one Afghan soldier and wounded seven people, including two Afghan soldiers.
In the first incident, a suicide car bomber hit an Afghan and NATO convoy in the eastern province of Paktia, killing an Afghan soldier and injuring five people.
In the second incident, a male bomber wearing a burka approached Afghan soldiers on patrol in a market place in the nearby province of Paktika and detonated his explosives, wounding two soldiers.
Forty-four Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have been killed since Canada sent troops to the troubled country in early 2002.

www.cbc.ca/world/story...nsive.html

J.McGillivray · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 149

Here are two views from Google Earth showing the location of FOB MaÃ¢â‚¬â„¢Sum Ghar where some of CanadaÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Leopard C2s are now based.

Maple_Leaf_Eh · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 517

Thanks for maintaining OPSEC! For the health and safety of our troops, please remove those images.

Apparently the insurgents in Iraq learned how to use GoogleEarth for targeting American camps behind high barrier walls. Everyone likes to see their house in nice detail, which works back home. But the displayed coordinates and imagery work wonders for bearing and distance calculations.

GoogleEarth has one lucky disadvantage, the images are most out of date and there is no way to know which ones are newer.

J.McGillivray · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 149

You are being a little over the top.

The Google Earth site is free to all users. It dose not contain any information that can be classed as a military secret. The name of the Canadian FOB Ã¢â‚¬Å“MaÃ¢â‚¬â„¢Sum GharÃ¢â‚¬Â? is given on the public portion of the DND web site and is available to all who wants to see it. DND dose not treat it as being a military secret.

The photos that I posted are useless in targeting anyone. There is probably more useful information contained in the Combat Camera Photos posted on the DND web site then there is in the Google Earth photos that I posted.

Considering that there have already being fire fights in the areas of the FOBs, and that there have already being rockets and mortars fired in their direction, it would be a safe bet that the Taliban already know where they are located.

JimWeb

- Maple_Leaf_Eh

Thanks for maintaining OPSEC! For the health and safety of our troops, please remove those images.

Wow! Talk about over-reaction to a freely available image from the net.. I take it you've emailed the Taliban and asked them to desist from using Google Earth?

Cool

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

- Maple_Leaf_Eh

Thanks for maintaining OPSEC! For the health and safety of our troops, please remove those images.

Apparently the insurgents in Iraq learned how to use GoogleEarth for targeting American camps behind high barrier walls. Everyone likes to see their house in nice detail, which works back home. But the displayed coordinates and imagery work wonders for bearing and distance calculations.

GoogleEarth has one lucky disadvantage, the images are most out of date and there is no way to know which ones are newer.

Hiya,

While I see where you are coming from with your concern, you may be over-reacting a bit. I understand your concerns, and share them when I see something that might compromise information that's not available anywhere else. In this case: A) the Google Earth info/pics are available to anyone who takes the time to look for them, and I'm sure the Towlies have already seen them; B) the locations of the various FOBs are well known to anyone within 25 miles of them.

If the threat was from non-line-of-sight/over-the-horizon weapons (big rockets, big cannonns, etc.) then I could see your concern and would object to the data even being available. In this case, the weapons of concern are hardly being used in a mode that allows pinpoint accuracy. Any actual hits are mostly luck, since the weapons are usually fired in the general direction of the FOBs.

It's good that you worry, but I'm pretty sure this one is OK.

C

Maple_Leaf_Eh · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 517

The names of camps and routes are openly discussed, but the locations are never released. In any intelligence gathering process, if enough snippets come available, a comprehensive picture can be built. Compare the public body of knowledge on the SAS vs JTF2 or Delta Force (or whatever they call themselves now). Plonking a speculative spot on a GoogleEarth image about Ma'Sum Ghar adds just such a detail.

(Taleban Jack might not have high-speed internet to do his map recce before giving orders, but you can be sure other guys abroad are collecting intelligence on their behalf.)

I can take a bit of comfort knowing GoogleEarth sees OPSEC the same way I do. If you scroll around Kandahar, the particular scene around the airport and city is dull and grainy resolution. Outside the city are some amazing scenes that look like sub-metre ground sample distance. So the data exists.

rynoki

The jpeg showing the rear of the Leo shows some very large tow hooks on the rear of the tank. Any reason why they are so large?!

recceboy

The large tow hooks were bought for the fly over to secure the Leo's to the planes.

David_Clark · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 16, 2006 Posts: 36

I'm sure this question has been asked before but what exactly is a Leo C2 - Canada's designation for a Leo 1A4 with apgraded turret armour?

David

Jason_Bobrowich · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Aug 09, 2006 Posts: 71

tankmodeler

- Jason_Bobrowich

The Leopard C2 is based on the Leopard 1A5 not the Leopard 1A4. It is called the Leopard C2 with or without the MEXAS armour mounted.

To elaborate just a bit, the C2 is a bit of a Frankenstein. The main reason for the upgrade was to get thermal sights into our Leos. It turned out to be cheaper to buy retired German Leo 1A5s than to buy an upgrade kit off the shelf. However, our Leos were in better shape mechanically and had fewer rounds through the main gun tubes so we took the 1A5 turrets and put them in our old huills and added our tubes to the German turrets. Not content with that, we added and extended turret bustle, wihch I think, opens into the turret for ammo storage (not entirely sure though, someone please let me know if this is not correct). The 1A5 turrets came with some add on armour and as a complete package, this is what constitutes a Leo C2. The add-on armour doesn't change the designation, as Jason said.

Paul Roberts
President AMPS

recceboy

The turret bustle is for kit stowage, that is all 4 crew members kit stuffed into the bins & food,water,POL and spare parts. Trying to stuff all the goodies into those bins is an art-form unto its self.

David_Clark · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 16, 2006 Posts: 36

- tankmodeler

To elaborate just a bit, the C2 is a bit of a Frankenstein.

That makes sense; the Leopard C1 was an 1A4 and the Australian Army received 55 1A4 turrets made surplus by the 1A5 turrets on the Leopard C2s.

I'm not sure what they were used for but the Leo AS1 used in static military displays is an engineless German Leo 1 hull with an ex-Canadian 1A4 turret (with the left side of the range finder plated over to look like an AS1 turret with laser range finder).

David

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