±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 448
Total: 448
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Home
12: Member Screenshots
13: Home
14: Photo Gallery
15: Photo Gallery
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Statistics
21: Home
22: Downloads
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Photo Gallery
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Statistics
31: Member Screenshots
32: Member Screenshots
33: Home
34: Home
35: Home
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Home
40: Photo Gallery
41: Home
42: Statistics
43: Community Forums
44: Downloads
45: Home
46: Home
47: Home
48: Photo Gallery
49: Home
50: Downloads
51: Home
52: Home
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Photo Gallery
57: Home
58: Home
59: Member Screenshots
60: Home
61: Member Screenshots
62: Community Forums
63: Member Screenshots
64: Community Forums
65: Member Screenshots
66: Home
67: Member Screenshots
68: Photo Gallery
69: Member Screenshots
70: Member Screenshots
71: Member Screenshots
72: Photo Gallery
73: Home
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Member Screenshots
80: Photo Gallery
81: Home
82: Photo Gallery
83: Photo Gallery
84: Photo Gallery
85: Photo Gallery
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Home
92: Home
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Photo Gallery
96: Member Screenshots
97: Home
98: Home
99: Downloads
100: Community Forums
101: Downloads
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Photo Gallery
105: Downloads
106: Photo Gallery
107: Home
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Home
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Home
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Home
124: Community Forums
125: Home
126: Community Forums
127: Photo Gallery
128: Home
129: Home
130: Home
131: Home
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Photo Gallery
135: Home
136: Tell a Friend
137: Photo Gallery
138: Home
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Home
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Photo Gallery
148: Community Forums
149: Member Screenshots
150: Photo Gallery
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Home
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Downloads
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Statistics
161: Home
162: Downloads
163: Home
164: Photo Gallery
165: Photo Gallery
166: Home
167: Home
168: Home
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Photo Gallery
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Community Forums
175: Photo Gallery
176: Statistics
177: Home
178: Home
179: Statistics
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Home
184: Home
185: Downloads
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Photo Gallery
189: Community Forums
190: Home
191: Member Screenshots
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Member Screenshots
203: Downloads
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Photo Gallery
207: Home
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Home
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Home
217: Home
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: News Archive
221: Community Forums
222: Home
223: Home
224: Home
225: Photo Gallery
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Home
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Home
233: Home
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Photo Gallery
237: Member Screenshots
238: Photo Gallery
239: Photo Gallery
240: Downloads
241: Photo Gallery
242: Photo Gallery
243: Photo Gallery
244: Home
245: Photo Gallery
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Home
251: Community Forums
252: Home
253: Community Forums
254: News Archive
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Home
258: Home
259: Home
260: Home
261: Home
262: Home
263: Home
264: Photo Gallery
265: Photo Gallery
266: Home
267: Home
268: Home
269: Member Screenshots
270: Photo Gallery
271: Photo Gallery
272: Photo Gallery
273: Photo Gallery
274: Photo Gallery
275: Home
276: Community Forums
277: Photo Gallery
278: Photo Gallery
279: Photo Gallery
280: Community Forums
281: Home
282: Home
283: Photo Gallery
284: Member Screenshots
285: Home
286: Community Forums
287: Member Screenshots
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Photo Gallery
293: Photo Gallery
294: Home
295: Photo Gallery
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Home
300: Home
301: Supporters
302: Photo Gallery
303: Photo Gallery
304: Home
305: Photo Gallery
306: Photo Gallery
307: Photo Gallery
308: Home
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: News Archive
315: Photo Gallery
316: Home
317: Community Forums
318: Home
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: News
325: Member Screenshots
326: Downloads
327: Home
328: Photo Gallery
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Downloads
333: Photo Gallery
334: Photo Gallery
335: Home
336: Downloads
337: Your Account
338: Home
339: Photo Gallery
340: Photo Gallery
341: Home
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Downloads
345: Community Forums
346: Photo Gallery
347: Home
348: Home
349: Home
350: Home
351: Home
352: Home
353: Home
354: Photo Gallery
355: Home
356: Community Forums
357: Home
358: Home
359: Home
360: Home
361: Home
362: Home
363: Photo Gallery
364: Home
365: Home
366: Community Forums
367: Home
368: Photo Gallery
369: Home
370: Statistics
371: Community Forums
372: Home
373: Home
374: Community Forums
375: Home
376: Home
377: Photo Gallery
378: Member Screenshots
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Downloads
384: Member Screenshots
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Home
388: Home
389: Community Forums
390: Home
391: Home
392: Home
393: Community Forums
394: Home
395: Community Forums
396: Downloads
397: Home
398: Community Forums
399: Photo Gallery
400: Home
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Home
404: Community Forums
405: Photo Gallery
406: Home
407: Community Forums
408: News Archive
409: Photo Gallery
410: News Archive
411: Community Forums
412: Member Screenshots
413: Home
414: Photo Gallery
415: Photo Gallery
416: Member Screenshots
417: Photo Gallery
418: Home
419: Home
420: Community Forums
421: Home
422: Home
423: Home
424: Downloads
425: Community Forums
426: Home
427: Community Forums
428: Home
429: Photo Gallery
430: Downloads
431: Photo Gallery
432: Downloads
433: Photo Gallery
434: Home
435: Home
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Photo Gallery
441: Community Forums
442: Statistics
443: Community Forums
444: Home
445: Home
446: Photo Gallery
447: Home
448: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:52 pm
Post subject: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

okay fellas, happened to catch the tail end report on the news this evening in re: an anti-RPG system or something. it was developed by the IDF, called Trophy?

do any of you who know more about this, feel that you can comment, shed more light on how this is supposed to work?

shawn
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

Not adopted by anyone yet as it is useless in built-up areas and poses a hazard to any of the dismounts around the vehicle. It is strictly a wide-open spaces and everyone under armour system.

TRAPS is a much better system that can be used even with personnel stood beside it...

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Shadow_Banshee
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 575

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:05 am
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

maybe this might be intresting, i checked and its ok to link to it, www.thesop.org/index.php?id=878 i was recently discusing this with a IDF friend so the link was handy. hope it helps.

_________________
Lay me place and bake me Pie
I'm starving for me Gravy
Back to top
View user's profile
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

I believe Trophy may have seen some limited use in Lebanon last year. There's been a recent media stink about the U.S. turning its nose up to Trophy in favor of a home-grown version that's still pretty far down the road.

My own ill-informed concern with Trophy is its electronic footprint. Radars scannning for incoming rockets sounds like an opponent should be able to pick up and isolate vehicle signatures from miles away. 'Captain, I'm reading three Trophy signatures off the port bow!"
Back to top
View user's profile
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

thanks, i know i am not the only one who feels this way, the media can get my blood boiling...

oh my goodness, i cant believe i was going to use this term, the "drive-by" media, lisa meyers or whomever she was, reported on the trophy system,
presenting views and opinions that i dont feel are accurate, trying to make the govt or army out to be the bad guys and not putting the lives of the soldier first, blah, blah, blah.

this type of defense has some good pros, but too many cons at the present...
this is the first i have heard of it. sounds viable, but how useful would it really be?
seems like sci-fi, force fields around vehicles and such, seems cool


the story had mentioned something to do with an auto-loader, how did that fit into the system?

thanks for shedding some light on this for me, and for the link. i will check it out.
shawn
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

Army Committed to Force Protection, Not False Security
By Jim Garamone
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, Sept. 8, 2006 – Army leaders are committed to ensuring soldiers have the best force-protection capability possible, but also want to avoid giving soldiers a false sense of security, service officials said here today.

Maj. Gen. Jeffrey A, Sorenson, the Army’s deputy for acquisition and systems management, took exception to an NBC News report that said the Army is not buying an Israeli system, called Trophy, that could protect soldiers and their vehicles from rocket-propelled grenades. The report alleges the Army manipulated information in favor of a competing Raytheon system, called Quick Kill.

Both the Israeli and Raytheon systems are designed to fire missiles that intercept RPGs in flight. The Israeli system may be six months ahead of the Raytheon system, but it has limitations. The NBC report made it sound as if the Army refused to field a perfectly fine combat system that would save lives, officials said.

Sorenson said they system is not a “produceable item.� The Israelis have been working on the Trophy system for 10 or 11 years, Sorenson said. “If this thing was ready to go, my question would be, why wasn’t it on the particular tanks that went into Lebanon?� he said. No Israeli Merkava tanks carried the Trophy system, he said.

Other problems include the fact that the system right now has no reloading capability. Once it fires, that side of the vehicle is vulnerable. Which brings up another shortcoming: the Trophy can only be mounted to protect one axis. This means officials would have to mount multiple missile systems on every vehicle. The Quick Kill missile has 360-degree capability and a reload capability.

Another worry is collateral damage, he said. “In a tight urban area, the Trophy system may take out the RPG, but we may kill 20 people in the process,� Sorenson said. “That is a concern we have that we haven’t fully evaluated.�

The general said there also is confusion on the contract award. “It was awarded by the lead system integrator and the government team,� Sorenson said. “It was not done by Raytheon. There was confusion in the report that the Army was cooking the books and which was absolutely false, blatantly false.�

Sorenson said the Army has standards of performance for force-protection capabilities. “These have not only been dictated by lessons learned in theater, but all the work we have done heretofore on all the systems prior to this,� he said. “We will not put anything out there that has not demonstrated that it is capable of doing what it is alleged to do.�

The bottom line is that if a system “does not have the ‘Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval’ it does not go forward,� Sorenson said.

The general said that every soldier lost is a tragedy. But, of the more than 1,400 soldiers killed in Iraq, most died from improvised explosive devices. A total of 148 soldiers have been lost due to an RPG or an RPG and other weapons. Sixty-three soldiers died by RPG only, he said. Broken down further, 10 soldiers died as a result of an RPG hit to a U.S. combat system -- an Abrams tank, Bradley fighting vehicle, Stryker wheeled vehicle or M-113 armored personnel carrier.

“The reason that is so low is that those combat systems already have good force-protection systems applied,� Sorenson said. There are reactive armor tiles on the Bradley. Officials added slat-armor protection to the Stryker, and all combat vehicles have protection built into them, officials said.
Back to top
View user's profile
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

Some describe the debate as a contest between a high-tech one-shot reactive system that may cost more than the vehicle itself vs a cheap steel cage with bars spaced 3 inches apart. of course a cheap steel cage doesn't boost Raytheon profit margin.

D'oh! I almost forgot to mention. Our gracious host 'AFV News' had a brief article on Trophy in its journal a short while ago. Is your magazine subscription up-to-date? Wink
Back to top
View user's profile
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

Ah! By sheer coincidence I got home from work early last night, just in time to see an NBC news report pretty darned critical of Pentagon procurement in regards to Trophy. Not that they didn't field it, more that they did everything possible to keep from even looking at it! So the old story's still got legs.
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

I saw the story on NBC also. It was a pretty pointed and damning piece. Their focus was 'Army Does everything it can to keep from testing a system which may save soldiers lives to protect the FCS program which their (The Armys) favored contractor is developing' Including the old 'The Army refused our requests for interviews' which NEVER plays well.

Also nothing about cost or potential danger to dismounts (Which is the big problem I've always felt was there with active/reactive systems)

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2069
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Trophy-- anit-RPG technology?

Nobody's mentioned Humvee Protection,
Just curious if it would apply to them, since the majority of the traffic is of those type of vehicles. Pardon my ignorance but can it be used with a crewmember exposed in an open cupola??? If not the value would be even less. I will say that protective upgrades are happening all the time and as soon as you get used to one another comes out even better. IED's are the most common and biggest killer. RPG's can mess your day up, but at least there's a person you can kill if he tries to engage you. Can't fight an IED.
Did not see the NBC program, kinda glad I don't have regular access to it based on what everyone has said. Let's hope this story doesn't end up prompting some Congressman to start another uneccesary investigation that will either buy us a system we don't really need and siphon off funds needed elsewhere (Counter IED) or prevent the fielding of one in a timely manner that does work.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum