±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 756
Total: 756
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Member Screenshots
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: News Archive
13: Member Screenshots
14: Statistics
15: Photo Gallery
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Photo Gallery
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Community Forums
26: Member Screenshots
27: Community Forums
28: Member Screenshots
29: Community Forums
30: Member Screenshots
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: News Archive
35: News
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Downloads
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Photo Gallery
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: News
53: Downloads
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Photo Gallery
59: Community Forums
60: News
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Photo Gallery
65: Member Screenshots
66: Community Forums
67: Member Screenshots
68: Community Forums
69: News Archive
70: Member Screenshots
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Statistics
75: Downloads
76: Community Forums
77: News Archive
78: Member Screenshots
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Photo Gallery
82: Home
83: Member Screenshots
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Photo Gallery
88: Downloads
89: Community Forums
90: Downloads
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Home
101: Downloads
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Community Forums
105: News
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: News Archive
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Photo Gallery
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Community Forums
123: Home
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Member Screenshots
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Member Screenshots
134: Community Forums
135: Member Screenshots
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: News Archive
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: News Archive
145: News Archive
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Photo Gallery
151: News Archive
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Statistics
156: Photo Gallery
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Downloads
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Member Screenshots
165: Community Forums
166: Member Screenshots
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Member Screenshots
170: News Archive
171: Photo Gallery
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: News
175: Statistics
176: Community Forums
177: Member Screenshots
178: Member Screenshots
179: News Archive
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: Downloads
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Member Screenshots
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Home
197: News Archive
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Community Forums
203: Downloads
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: News
210: Community Forums
211: Downloads
212: Community Forums
213: Downloads
214: Member Screenshots
215: Community Forums
216: Member Screenshots
217: Community Forums
218: Member Screenshots
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Photo Gallery
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Member Screenshots
226: Member Screenshots
227: Community Forums
228: Photo Gallery
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Downloads
234: Community Forums
235: Photo Gallery
236: Member Screenshots
237: Photo Gallery
238: Photo Gallery
239: Home
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: Home
243: Your Account
244: Member Screenshots
245: Community Forums
246: Photo Gallery
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: News Archive
254: Home
255: Member Screenshots
256: Statistics
257: Home
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Photo Gallery
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Your Account
264: Community Forums
265: Downloads
266: Community Forums
267: Downloads
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: News
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Member Screenshots
278: Member Screenshots
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Member Screenshots
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: News Archive
287: Community Forums
288: Downloads
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Community Forums
293: News Archive
294: Downloads
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Downloads
298: Community Forums
299: Home
300: Member Screenshots
301: Photo Gallery
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Member Screenshots
307: Community Forums
308: Home
309: Home
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Downloads
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: News
319: Community Forums
320: Statistics
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Home
327: Home
328: Member Screenshots
329: Home
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Home
334: Downloads
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Home
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Downloads
348: Member Screenshots
349: News
350: Community Forums
351: Downloads
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: News
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Statistics
358: Community Forums
359: Home
360: Community Forums
361: Search
362: Downloads
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Member Screenshots
366: Downloads
367: Downloads
368: Photo Gallery
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Member Screenshots
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: News
375: Downloads
376: Photo Gallery
377: Downloads
378: Member Screenshots
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Downloads
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: News Archive
386: Community Forums
387: Photo Gallery
388: Downloads
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Photo Gallery
395: Supporters
396: Photo Gallery
397: Home
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: News
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Home
407: Member Screenshots
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Photo Gallery
411: Photo Gallery
412: News Archive
413: Member Screenshots
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Downloads
425: Downloads
426: News Archive
427: Community Forums
428: Statistics
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Photo Gallery
434: Photo Gallery
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: News Archive
438: News Archive
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Photo Gallery
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Member Screenshots
447: Community Forums
448: Member Screenshots
449: Community Forums
450: Member Screenshots
451: Member Screenshots
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Photo Gallery
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Home
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Member Screenshots
463: Photo Gallery
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: News Archive
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Downloads
478: Photo Gallery
479: Member Screenshots
480: Statistics
481: Member Screenshots
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Downloads
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Downloads
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Member Screenshots
494: Photo Gallery
495: News Archive
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Downloads
499: Photo Gallery
500: Photo Gallery
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Photo Gallery
505: Photo Gallery
506: News Archive
507: News
508: Community Forums
509: Photo Gallery
510: News Archive
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Downloads
518: Community Forums
519: Photo Gallery
520: Statistics
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Member Screenshots
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Member Screenshots
528: Community Forums
529: Member Screenshots
530: Downloads
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Downloads
535: Community Forums
536: Home
537: Community Forums
538: Downloads
539: LinkToUs
540: Home
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Photo Gallery
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Downloads
549: Community Forums
550: News Archive
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Statistics
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: LinkToUs
557: Photo Gallery
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Statistics
561: Downloads
562: Member Screenshots
563: Member Screenshots
564: Community Forums
565: Member Screenshots
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: News Archive
569: Community Forums
570: Home
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Photo Gallery
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Downloads
582: Downloads
583: Member Screenshots
584: News
585: Photo Gallery
586: Member Screenshots
587: Photo Gallery
588: Home
589: Photo Gallery
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Photo Gallery
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Downloads
598: Community Forums
599: Home
600: Community Forums
601: Photo Gallery
602: Home
603: Community Forums
604: News Archive
605: Community Forums
606: Statistics
607: Member Screenshots
608: Member Screenshots
609: Downloads
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Photo Gallery
613: Member Screenshots
614: Community Forums
615: Your Account
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Home
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Statistics
623: Community Forums
624: Home
625: Downloads
626: Downloads
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: News Archive
631: Community Forums
632: Home
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Member Screenshots
636: Photo Gallery
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Downloads
645: LinkToUs
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Member Screenshots
649: Community Forums
650: News
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Member Screenshots
654: Community Forums
655: Photo Gallery
656: Community Forums
657: Photo Gallery
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Home
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Member Screenshots
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: News Archive
672: Statistics
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Member Screenshots
680: Community Forums
681: Community Forums
682: Statistics
683: News Archive
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Home
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: News
691: Downloads
692: Community Forums
693: Member Screenshots
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Community Forums
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Photo Gallery
702: Community Forums
703: Member Screenshots
704: Community Forums
705: Community Forums
706: Community Forums
707: Community Forums
708: Your Account
709: Home
710: News Archive
711: Community Forums
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Home
716: Photo Gallery
717: Member Screenshots
718: Community Forums
719: Photo Gallery
720: Community Forums
721: Community Forums
722: Downloads
723: Home
724: Community Forums
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Member Screenshots
729: Community Forums
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Community Forums
733: Home
734: Community Forums
735: Home
736: Home
737: Downloads
738: Community Forums
739: Community Forums
740: Member Screenshots
741: Community Forums
742: Community Forums
743: Member Screenshots
744: News Archive
745: Community Forums
746: Community Forums
747: Community Forums
748: Community Forums
749: Downloads
750: Community Forums
751: Community Forums
752: Community Forums
753: Community Forums
754: Community Forums
755: Community Forums
756: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
What is the technical term for ...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kmeyer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:21 pm
Post subject: What is the technical term for ...

the ability to have a fully tracked vehicle spin its hull while remaining stationary?
And is this accomplished by having 1 track going forward and the other
going in reverse?

Thanks
Kevin
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

We always referred to this as a "neutral steer" in vehicles so capable (not all tracked vehicle were).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

'Neutral turn' is the UK version....

BTW some wheeled vehicles are capable of doing it as well...

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:14 am
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

It's called 'neutral steer' because normally it is done with the transmission in neutral.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

- kmeyer
the ability to have a fully tracked vehicle spin its hull while remaining stationary?
And is this accomplished by having 1 track going forward and the other
going in reverse?


There are two methods of doing this. Vehicles with a clutch-brake steering system can lock one track and transfer all power to the other and thus pivot over the locked track. In WWII that would apply to tanks like the German Panzer III and IV and the Soviet T-34. It is crude and wastes a lot of energy but works - though probably best if the ground is hard.

The other way is by means of turning the tracks in opposite directions. This can be achieved with tanks that have a separate steering drive from the engine. This can be found in many different steering systems but is basically a drive that operates at a fixed speed independant of the propulsion gear choosen. When the steering mechanism is engaged, either by clutches or brakes, the steering drive counterrotates and slows down the speed of one track throught differential or epicyclic gears. As the speed difference between the propulsion shaft and the steering drive shaft is determined by the gear choosen, you get a different steering ratio for each propulsion gear - narrow turns in low gear, wider turns in high gear. When the propulsion gearbox is in neutral, the steering drives is still turning and if you engage it by engaging the steering mechanism - pulling the steering levers - the tracks will turn in opposite directions and the tank turn on the spot. Hence the term "neutral turn". As each track is actually driven, this takes up a lot less energy than pivoting over the braked track as explained above.
This applies to British tanks like the Cromwell and Churchill or German tanks like the Panther and Tiger I and II, even though the actual steerings systems used were different. The French Char B1 had a rather clever version of this system, where the steering drive was turning a hydraulic drive, allowing and infinite number of steering ratios. It was needed, because it was the only means by which the hull mounted 75mm gun could be aimed - by the driver!

I've been told that even today, where tanks are a lot more reliable than they were in WWII, tankers only use neutral turns if it cannot be avoided, particularily off-road as it is quite hard on the mechanical bits and can cause problems with the track. Dont know if that is generally the case?

If you go to the British Pathé homepage and find film ID no. 1976.03, there is a short sequence at the end with Panther "Cuckoo", captured by the British, doing, among other things, a neutral turn.

[edit:] Just stumbled on another sequence on the British Pathé homepage, showing an FT-17 first struggling to run over a road sign, then doing a partial turn over one braked track. Its ID no. 1918.23

Claus B

PS: British Pathé can be found at www.britishpathe.com/index.html
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:02 am
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

The little experience I had actually driving a tank was in an M48A1. Neutral steering was easy. You put the transmission in Netral and turned the steering wheel ( a sort of Sideways figure 8 shape) in the direction you wanted to turn. The M48 was fun to drive the transmission wasa 2 speed automatic (I always wondered if it was related to the old Chevy Powerglide) as you were driving and you wanted more power you slapped it into low range, when you wanted to make more speed you slapped it into high. That was back when I was in ROTC. Funny thing was I didn't have a drivers license yet (couldn't afford the insurance) but I could drive a tank.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:40 am
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

- bsmart
The little experience I had actually driving a tank was in an M48A1. Neutral steering was easy. You put the transmission in Netral and turned the steering wheel ( a sort of Sideways figure 8 shape) in the direction you wanted to turn.


Perhaps too easy. I noticed that there were warnings about touching the steering levers in the Cromwell and Churchill handbooks when the engine was running and the tank in neutral. Accidentally pushing one of the levers would start the tank turning. Probably not the greatest thing if tightly parked in the motorpool or next to a wall. Smile

Claus B
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:15 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

Neutral steering on hard surfaces (like concrete), it went without saying, was discouraged when unnecessary because it scrubbed a lot of rubber off the ol' track blocks thus shortening replacement intervals. Leaves a spectacular tell-tale patch too that you don't want to be called upon to explain if you're just goofing around.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:00 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

Hi Everyone,
Discouraged yes, exactly for that reason too Doug. But when out and about it can be a useful and FUN function, just don't get too carried away in sand or mud or you'll shed a track. Too much will accumulate and will lift the road wheels away from the center guides and then your in trouble. It also will build up between the track and sprocket carrier and roll off, even with the cut outs in it.
Claus, those warnings were also in the M1's ,M551's and M60's. That's why most units make it a rule to have a driver stay in position when the engine is running. Too many times a T-bar has been bumped getting in or out causing the tank to move and if your lucky hit the adjacent tank, a bad day is when there's someone between them. I have grabbed quite a few young troops/LT's in my day preventing them from walking between tanks that are running. They usually are parked only a couple of feet apart in the motorpool.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:47 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

Thanks Joe & Doug. Always nice to get a real-world perspective Smile

Claus B
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:11 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

Like Joe said, I can't recall ever leaving one of the vehicle's referenced with the engine running unattended without the driver in position.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
BAGTIC
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Missouri Ozarks
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:01 am
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

We always called it "pivoting", to pivot
Back to top
View user's profile
Howard_Thompson
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:17 am
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

The TM 9-2350-230-12 (M551 Sheridan) Op and Org Maintenance Manual calls this maneuver PIVOT STEER and was limited to low range foward and both reverse ranges.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum