±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 647
Total: 647
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Photo Gallery
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Photo Gallery
11: Home
12: Photo Gallery
13: Photo Gallery
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Photo Gallery
20: Home
21: Photo Gallery
22: Photo Gallery
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Photo Gallery
27: Home
28: Home
29: Downloads
30: Home
31: Home
32: Member Screenshots
33: Member Screenshots
34: Home
35: Home
36: Home
37: Photo Gallery
38: Home
39: Home
40: Home
41: Photo Gallery
42: Photo Gallery
43: Statistics
44: Downloads
45: Photo Gallery
46: Downloads
47: Home
48: Photo Gallery
49: News Archive
50: Photo Gallery
51: Downloads
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Photo Gallery
58: Photo Gallery
59: Home
60: Home
61: Photo Gallery
62: Downloads
63: Home
64: Photo Gallery
65: Photo Gallery
66: Home
67: News
68: Home
69: Photo Gallery
70: Photo Gallery
71: Home
72: Photo Gallery
73: Statistics
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Home
77: Photo Gallery
78: Downloads
79: Photo Gallery
80: News Archive
81: Home
82: Home
83: Home
84: Statistics
85: Community Forums
86: Home
87: Photo Gallery
88: Home
89: Photo Gallery
90: Photo Gallery
91: Downloads
92: Home
93: Home
94: Member Screenshots
95: Member Screenshots
96: Photo Gallery
97: Home
98: Photo Gallery
99: Home
100: Home
101: Home
102: Photo Gallery
103: Photo Gallery
104: Downloads
105: News Archive
106: Statistics
107: Home
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Home
111: Home
112: Home
113: Home
114: Home
115: Member Screenshots
116: Photo Gallery
117: Member Screenshots
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Photo Gallery
121: Photo Gallery
122: Photo Gallery
123: News Archive
124: Member Screenshots
125: Photo Gallery
126: Home
127: Photo Gallery
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Home
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Home
135: News Archive
136: Community Forums
137: Photo Gallery
138: Photo Gallery
139: Home
140: Home
141: Member Screenshots
142: Home
143: Home
144: Home
145: Home
146: Home
147: Home
148: Home
149: Home
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Home
153: Downloads
154: Home
155: Statistics
156: Home
157: Photo Gallery
158: Statistics
159: Photo Gallery
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Photo Gallery
166: Home
167: Photo Gallery
168: Member Screenshots
169: News Archive
170: Photo Gallery
171: Community Forums
172: Photo Gallery
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Community Forums
177: Photo Gallery
178: Home
179: Photo Gallery
180: Photo Gallery
181: News Archive
182: Home
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Photo Gallery
187: Home
188: News Archive
189: Photo Gallery
190: Home
191: Photo Gallery
192: Community Forums
193: Photo Gallery
194: Home
195: Community Forums
196: Photo Gallery
197: Home
198: Home
199: Photo Gallery
200: Your Account
201: Home
202: Home
203: Home
204: News Archive
205: Community Forums
206: Home
207: Home
208: Home
209: Photo Gallery
210: Home
211: Treasury
212: Downloads
213: Photo Gallery
214: Home
215: Home
216: Home
217: Photo Gallery
218: Photo Gallery
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Photo Gallery
222: Home
223: Home
224: Member Screenshots
225: Downloads
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: Statistics
229: Photo Gallery
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Photo Gallery
233: Home
234: Photo Gallery
235: Home
236: Home
237: Photo Gallery
238: Community Forums
239: Home
240: Home
241: News Archive
242: Home
243: Photo Gallery
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Photo Gallery
247: Photo Gallery
248: Community Forums
249: Member Screenshots
250: Photo Gallery
251: Home
252: Photo Gallery
253: Home
254: Home
255: Home
256: Photo Gallery
257: News
258: Home
259: Community Forums
260: Downloads
261: Home
262: Home
263: Photo Gallery
264: Home
265: Photo Gallery
266: Home
267: Supporters
268: Member Screenshots
269: Downloads
270: Photo Gallery
271: Home
272: Photo Gallery
273: Photo Gallery
274: Member Screenshots
275: Home
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Home
280: Home
281: Home
282: Home
283: Home
284: Home
285: Home
286: Home
287: Home
288: Photo Gallery
289: Photo Gallery
290: Home
291: Your Account
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Home
296: Member Screenshots
297: Home
298: Member Screenshots
299: Photo Gallery
300: Home
301: Photo Gallery
302: Home
303: Home
304: Community Forums
305: Photo Gallery
306: Home
307: Home
308: Downloads
309: Home
310: Downloads
311: Photo Gallery
312: Home
313: Photo Gallery
314: Member Screenshots
315: Home
316: Photo Gallery
317: Home
318: Member Screenshots
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Home
322: Photo Gallery
323: Photo Gallery
324: Statistics
325: Photo Gallery
326: Community Forums
327: Home
328: Photo Gallery
329: Home
330: Photo Gallery
331: Photo Gallery
332: Home
333: News
334: Home
335: Downloads
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: Member Screenshots
339: Photo Gallery
340: Home
341: Home
342: Member Screenshots
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Home
346: Member Screenshots
347: Downloads
348: Home
349: Home
350: Home
351: Home
352: Home
353: Community Forums
354: Photo Gallery
355: Home
356: Home
357: Statistics
358: Member Screenshots
359: Photo Gallery
360: Photo Gallery
361: Downloads
362: Home
363: Downloads
364: Photo Gallery
365: Member Screenshots
366: Home
367: News Archive
368: Home
369: Home
370: Home
371: Photo Gallery
372: Photo Gallery
373: Home
374: Home
375: Home
376: Photo Gallery
377: Home
378: Home
379: Home
380: Home
381: Community Forums
382: Home
383: Community Forums
384: Home
385: Home
386: Home
387: Photo Gallery
388: Home
389: Photo Gallery
390: Community Forums
391: Home
392: Home
393: Photo Gallery
394: Home
395: Home
396: LinkToUs
397: Home
398: Home
399: Home
400: Home
401: Home
402: Statistics
403: Home
404: Member Screenshots
405: Photo Gallery
406: Home
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: Home
410: Photo Gallery
411: Home
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Home
415: Home
416: Photo Gallery
417: Community Forums
418: Home
419: Home
420: Home
421: Home
422: Home
423: Home
424: Photo Gallery
425: Downloads
426: Photo Gallery
427: Member Screenshots
428: Photo Gallery
429: Member Screenshots
430: Downloads
431: Photo Gallery
432: Home
433: Home
434: Home
435: Community Forums
436: Photo Gallery
437: Home
438: Home
439: Member Screenshots
440: Community Forums
441: Photo Gallery
442: Home
443: Photo Gallery
444: Photo Gallery
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Home
448: Home
449: Home
450: Home
451: Home
452: Home
453: Home
454: Home
455: Home
456: Home
457: Photo Gallery
458: Home
459: Home
460: Home
461: Community Forums
462: Downloads
463: Home
464: Home
465: Home
466: Home
467: Home
468: Home
469: Statistics
470: Home
471: Photo Gallery
472: Home
473: Photo Gallery
474: Home
475: Photo Gallery
476: Home
477: Photo Gallery
478: Home
479: Photo Gallery
480: Member Screenshots
481: Community Forums
482: Home
483: Home
484: Home
485: Photo Gallery
486: Home
487: Home
488: Home
489: Member Screenshots
490: Photo Gallery
491: Home
492: Home
493: Home
494: Home
495: Home
496: Home
497: Community Forums
498: Photo Gallery
499: Photo Gallery
500: Home
501: Community Forums
502: Home
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Home
506: Home
507: Home
508: Member Screenshots
509: Photo Gallery
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Home
514: Downloads
515: Photo Gallery
516: Home
517: Photo Gallery
518: Member Screenshots
519: Community Forums
520: Member Screenshots
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Home
524: Home
525: Downloads
526: Home
527: Downloads
528: Photo Gallery
529: Member Screenshots
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Photo Gallery
533: Your Account
534: Community Forums
535: Downloads
536: Community Forums
537: Photo Gallery
538: Photo Gallery
539: Home
540: Member Screenshots
541: Photo Gallery
542: Home
543: Member Screenshots
544: Downloads
545: Photo Gallery
546: Photo Gallery
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: Home
550: Home
551: Home
552: Photo Gallery
553: Photo Gallery
554: Photo Gallery
555: Community Forums
556: Home
557: Home
558: Photo Gallery
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Home
562: Home
563: Home
564: Community Forums
565: Downloads
566: Photo Gallery
567: Community Forums
568: Photo Gallery
569: Home
570: Home
571: Community Forums
572: Home
573: Photo Gallery
574: Photo Gallery
575: Photo Gallery
576: Home
577: Statistics
578: Community Forums
579: Member Screenshots
580: Photo Gallery
581: Member Screenshots
582: Home
583: Home
584: Photo Gallery
585: Member Screenshots
586: Member Screenshots
587: Home
588: Home
589: Photo Gallery
590: Home
591: Community Forums
592: Photo Gallery
593: Photo Gallery
594: Home
595: Home
596: Home
597: Community Forums
598: Photo Gallery
599: Community Forums
600: Home
601: Photo Gallery
602: Photo Gallery
603: Photo Gallery
604: Photo Gallery
605: Member Screenshots
606: Community Forums
607: Photo Gallery
608: Home
609: Home
610: Home
611: News Archive
612: Photo Gallery
613: Member Screenshots
614: Photo Gallery
615: Photo Gallery
616: Photo Gallery
617: Home
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Home
621: Home
622: Home
623: Community Forums
624: Home
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Photo Gallery
628: Photo Gallery
629: Statistics
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Home
633: Community Forums
634: News
635: Home
636: Home
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Home
640: Home
641: Downloads
642: Community Forums
643: Photo Gallery
644: Community Forums
645: News Archive
646: Member Screenshots
647: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:03 pm
Post subject: Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?

Thats the story in Jane's Defence Weekly apparently...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?

Its been rumor and half truths for years now.
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?

The article indicates negotiations are underway to purchase or buy for use in Afghanistan - the M777 howitzers were bought the same way. The tanks would come from German army reserve stocks & be upgraded with mine protection by KMW.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?

That was the rumor about two months ago when the decision on keeping the Leo1s was made. I think there were even reports of a Canadian team going over to Germany to begin the negotiations. That was all downplayed by the government and nothing ever came of it. Maybe the team was over there shopping for the Leo1 upgrades instead?

Either way, they just spent a bunch of money upgrading their Leo1s for service over there - that doesn't give me the impression that they're intending to replace them anytime soon.

That said, I'd love to see Canadian Leo2s. Or a Candian version of the Abrams that the Aussies got.
Back to top
View user's profile
Jason_Bobrowich
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?

This is very quickly going beyond good rumour. I have been told directly from a contact at the Armour School that a team was sent to Germany on February 14th to start looking over the Leopard 2s.

There is no one looking at any more Leopard 1 upgrades for the Canadian Leopard C2s. Kraus-Maffei have told the Canadian Forces that they will no longer be making any Leopard 1 replacement parts...the Leopard 1 is done. Spare parts are currently being scavenged from where ever they can be found for the C2s in Afghanistan...including from Leopard C1 and C2 gate guards.

The numbers requested are-

20 Leopard 2A6Ms for use in Afghanistan...most likely these will leased as the German Army only has 40 of this variant.

80 Leopard 2A4s...no idea if these will be upgraded to Leopard 2A5 variant.

Funny that Jane's is only running a story now...this info has been out since February 9th.


Last edited by Jason_Bobrowich on Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:49 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:33 am
Post subject: Re: Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?

- Hellfish6

Either way, they just spent a bunch of money upgrading their Leo1s for service over there - that doesn't give me the impression that they're intending to replace them anytime soon.


The irony in Canadian budgeting is it is easier to fix the old whatevers than it is to buy new. The news releases on the C2 program were reluctant to admit to buying "new" tanks. No, these were replacement turrets (which happened to come on individual tracked turret transporters). The hulls were literally unmentionable.

Clive Law's book on Canadian sniper rifles recounts how the C3 sniper rifles have become a classic example. I paraphrase; one year the Life Cycle Material Manager (LCMM) bought barrels and stocks. The next year he bought new receivers. Under a separate contract the old rifles were rebuilt. The upshot was 1970s' Parker Hale 1200TX rifles swapped out for 1980's Parker Hale M87 receivers! They aren't new rifles - they're replacement parts.
Back to top
View user's profile
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:34 am
Post subject: Re: Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?

Yeah. Check it out. Guess your source was dead on, Neal.

www.sfu.ca/casr/bg-leo...afghan.htm

Rumours emerged on 10 Feb 2007 that Canada was tank shopping in Germany. Media reports [1] said that Canada had negotiated the lease of 20 Leopard 2A6M tanks from Bundeswehr stocks and purchased 80 more older Leopard 2A4s. The newer 2A6Ms, which have add-on mine-protection, would be sent to Kandahar. Less well-protected Leopard 2A4s would go to Canada for training purposes. Both models differ considerably from serving Leopard C2s.


Since the latest Leopard model [2] cannot be delivered quickly, the 2A6M was leased instead – mine protection includes added floor plates, blast-resistant crew seats, plus revised ammunition stowage. The basic vehicle is a Leopard 2A6 [3] with third-generation composite armour (similar in both shape and composition to the heavy MEXAS add-on armour kits applied to the Canadian Forces Leopard C2s sent to Kandahar).


The older Leopard 2A4 has a completely different turret with more upright armour. The gun is also different. Both 2A4s and 2A6Ms have Rheinmetall 120mm smooth bore guns but the 2A6 gun barrel is 1.3m longer. This gives the gun higher muzzle velocity (more useful in tank battles than in the direct-fire support role). Secondary armament for both Leopard models is two 7.62mm machineguns – presumably C6s for 2A4s and German MG3s [4] for 2A6Ms.


This lease/purchase surprised Canadian media but deployed Leopards are wearing out fast and it may be simpler/cheaper to replace than repair. In light of the German refusal to send troops to Kandahar, it galls to see Canadian defence dollars building up Angela Merkel’s treasury. Still, needs must and the deal means quick delivery, spares, maintenance software etc.
Back to top
View user's profile
Jason_Bobrowich
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?

The CASR article is just compiled from existing media articles. They have no source or CF insider information.

Just so you know CASR articles and their editorial opinions are not seen as fully credible by serving or ex-military. They are based at Simon Fraser University in the Vancouver area. The articles are interesting but they appear to do a lot of surmising and unconfirmed foreshadowing.

Even in the article they are stating that the new tanks have already been leased/purchased....not confirmed yet.
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?

Ottawa to lease 20 new tanks for Afghan mission
Updated Tue. Apr. 3 2007 5:42 PM ET
Canadian Press
OTTAWA -- A federal cabinet committee has given the green light to the lease of 20 state-of-the-art tanks to replace aging armoured vehicles in Afghanistan, The Canadian Press has learned.
The cabinet priorities and planning committee approved the lease of the German-built Leopard A6M tanks last week, said a Defence Department source, who asked not to be named.
The recommendation, which is unlikely to be overturned, is now on Prime Minister Stephen Harper's desk for final approval.
The news Tuesday came as Gen. Andrew Leslie, the country's top army officer, said he might have to consider pulling existing tanks -- which don't have air conditioning -- out of service in Afghanistan this summer because of the heat.
He also told troops in Kandahar to expect a decision from the prime minister on the new tanks within a week.
The new tanks have air conditioning, as well as improved protection against road-side bombs and suicide vehicles, both of which have been packing progressively bigger punches lately.
The army has a handful of older Leopard tanks, which are currently doing duty in western Kandahar as part of NATO's Operation Achilles.
The deal, which apparently includes access to ample spare parts, also gives Canada the option to purchase an unspecified number of additional tanks at a later date.
Reports last winter suggested that in addition to a lease, the army wanted to purchase 80 new Leopards, but the source said that number is likely to be scaled back.
Harper wouldn't bite on questions about the future of the vehicles.
"Cabinet has been discussing the tank issue and we'll have an announcement on that shortly,'' he said in Kitchener, Ont.
Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor, in Montreal for a speech, said he wasn't aware the issue was resolved.
A Defence Department spokesman didn't deny that a lease arrangement has been struck.
"We are exploring a number of options to address an operational requirement,'' said Lt. Adam Thomson. "However, we have nothing to announce at this moment.''
The defence source could not say how much the arrangement was worth, but brand new Leopard tanks cost roughly US $6 million each.
Currently, the army has 17 of its old 45-tonne tanks patrolling the desert and dirt roadways of rural Kandahar. The biggest drawback to the vehicles is their lack of air conditioning in a climate where daytime summer temperatures soar above 50C.
Defence Department researchers have looked at installing air conditioners in the vehicles but that would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per vehicle.
Another idea proposes to give tank crew cooling vests - the same kind used by professional race car drivers - but they would be cumbersome when layered along with existing body armour.
Aside from the comfort factor, the lease of new tanks is seen as a more cost-effective solution, said the defence source.
Alex Morrison of the Canadian Institute of Strategic Studies said buying new equipment is better than retrofitting.
"It just makes more sense,'' he said. "This is a decision that's been in the mill for at least the last seven months.''
New Democrat defence critic Dawn Black said she's not opposed to the lease arrangement, but only because it means tank crews won't have to roast.
"I think it was irresponsible to deploy them, knowing they weren't suitable for the climate,'' she said.
In February, a policy think-tank produced a report that criticized Canada's deployment of tanks to Afghanistan, saying the 1970s vintage Leopard-C2 vehicles were vulnerable to insurgent attacks.
Researcher Michael Wallace, of the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, argued that new Leopard A6Ms would also be vulnerable to road-side bombs and rocket-propelled grenades. He said the introduction of tanks had the potential to spark an "arms race'' with insurgents, prompting the Taliban to build bigger bombs.
Morrison dismissed the arguments, calling them ridiculous.
"What would they have us do?'' he asked. "Take the tanks home and then the insurgents won't use whatever weapon they have? What will happen in the end is the insurgents would control the whole country.''

www.ctv.ca/servlet/Art...hub=Canada

edit:CTV news combined two stories together and killed the link I posted above. Here is the new link to the re-written article.

www.ctv.ca/servlet/Art...TopStories
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?

Its been formally announced - 2A6s even...

www.forces.gc.ca/site/...sp?id=2251
Protection the top priority with tank acquisition
NR–07.022 - April 12, 2007

QUEBEC CITY, QUEBEC – The ongoing commitment of Canada’s New Government to the safety of Canadian Forces members engaged in deployed operations was front and centre today when the Honourable Gordon O’Connor, Minister of National Defence, the Honourable Michael Fortier, Minister of Public Works and Government Services, and General Rick Hillier, Chief of the Defence Staff, confirmed plans to renew the Canadian Forces’ tank capability.

To replace the Canadian Forces’ 30-year old Leopard 1 tanks, the Government will purchase up to 100 Leopard 2 tanks, as well as securing the loan of 20 Leopard 2A6 tanks for use in Afghanistan this summer. The Leopard 2 tanks are newer, more heavily armoured and more technologically advanced than Canada’s Leopard 1s. Their advanced features include significantly increased personnel protection against explosive devices and landmines, an ability to travel considerably faster in difficult terrain, more powerful engines, and stronger firing capabilities.

“Equipping Canada’s soldiers with the best protection is my top priority. By immediately acquiring stronger and more heavily protected tanks, our soldiers in Afghanistan have the best equipment possible to offer them protection during this mission,� said Minister O’Connor. “This government is committed to providing our Canadian Forces with the equipment they need to do the very demanding jobs we have asked of them.�

Minister Fortier said: “This announcement demonstrates Canada’s New Government’s commitment to procure critical operational equipment as quickly as possible for the Canadian Forces, while getting the best value for Canadian taxpayers.�

When examining the surplus tank option, Canada approached six allied nations to enquire about availability and thoroughly evaluated all formal proposals.

“Simply put, tanks help save lives and provide soldiers the right tools for the mission while enhancing their protection,� said General Hillier. “In Afghanistan, Canada’s Leopard 1 tanks have provided close direct fire support and mitigated the threat of mines and improvised explosive devices. This acquisition will further enhance the protection available to our soldiers.�

The 100 Leopard 2 tanks will be purchased from the Netherlands for the long-term requirements of the Canadian Forces, and should be delivered to Canada soon after completion of the government-to-government agreement, anticipated by end of summer 2007. They will be upgraded in Canada to final Canadian Forces standards.

The 20 combat-ready Leopard 2A6 main battle tanks will be loaned by Germany for short-term requirements and will be deployed to Afghanistan this summer with the next rotation of Canadian troops. In addition to being newer, more heavily protected and more technologically advanced, the Leopard 2A6s will generate significantly less heat than the hydraulic systems of Canada’s 30-year-old Leopard 1 fleet.

The Leopard 1 tanks were first deployed in Afghanistan fall 2006 to meet new operational requirements of the Canadian Forces.

Sale of 100 Leopard Tanks to Canada
Netherlands Ministry of Defence: April 12, 2007

Defence has sold hundred Leopard fighting tanks to Canada. The
agreement was confessed made during the visit of the Minister of
Defence, Eimert van Middelkoop, to Canada.

It concerns twenty Leopard 2A6s and eighty Leopard 2A4s.

Disposal of the tanks is a result of an earlier decision to reduce
the main battle tank inventory of the Dutch Army. The Netherlands
will retain 110 operational Leopard 2 A6 tanks.

Canada will upgrade and modernize the Leopards at its own expense.
The Netherlands will provide training for Canadian instructors as
part of the agreement. Training will begin in May.

Defence minister Eimert van Middelkoop was in Canada to attend the
Regional Command South Ministerial meeting in Quebec.

Backgrounder: Renewing the Canadian Forces' Tank Capability
BG–07.012 - April 12, 2007

THE REQUIREMENT
The heavily protected direct fire capability of a main battle tank is an invaluable tool in the arsenal of any military. The intensity of recent conflicts in Central Asia and the Middle East has shown western militaries that tanks provide protection that cannot be matched by more lightly armoured wheeled vehicles.

Simply put, tanks save lives, providing soldiers with a high level of protection. In Afghanistan, the Taliban’s use of lethal and readily available anti-armour weapons, such as improvised explosive devices (IEDs), is a clear threat. Canada’s Leopard 1 tanks have provided close direct fire support and mitigated the threat of IEDs, as well as landmines. The tanks have also provided the Canadian Forces (CF) with the capability to travel to locations that would otherwise be inaccessible to wheeled light armoured vehicles, including Taliban defensive positions.

Renewing Canada’s tank capability will enable the CF to meet current operational needs in the short and long term. Canada’s 30-year old Leopard 1 tanks are due for replacement, and Leopard 2 tanks offer more protection against IEDs and landmines; and are technologically more advanced than their predecessor. Furthermore, by 2012 there will no longer be logistics support and spare parts for the turrets of Leopard 1s, resulting in complete obsolescence by 2015.

THE PROCESS
A number of options for renewing the tank capability were considered, ranging from refurbishment to surplus to new.

Refurbishing the tanks is not an option as the 30-year old Leopard 1 turrets will be obsolete in 2015. It is also unsuited to operations in hot climates. Acquiring new tanks off a production line was also examined, but delivery would not occur for a few years and the individual tank cost is approximately three times as expensive as procuring and upgrading the same capability that exists on the surplus market.

When examining the surplus tank option, Canada approached six allied nations to enquire about availability. Formal proposals from three nations were thoroughly evaluated by Public Works and Government Services Canada and the Department of National Defence (DND) in terms of price, upgrade costs, delivery schedule, operational performance, survivability and through-life operating and maintenance costs. Based on this evaluation, the decision was taken to acquire up to 100 surplus Leopard 2 tanks from the Netherlands and negotiate a short-term loan arrangement with Germany to borrow 20 combat-ready Leopard 2A6 main battle tanks to address immediate operational requirements. This decision represented the most balanced and affordable approach for both short-and long-term requirements.

Canada is negotiating government-to-government agreements for both borrowing and acquiring the Leopard 2 tanks. The total project cost of the loaned tanks, the acquisition of 100 surplus tanks from the Netherlands, the requisite upgrades and enhancements to this new Leopard 2 fleet, and an initial acquisition of spare parts is $650 million, which will be funded from existing departmental allocations.

DEPLOYING COMBAT-READY TANKS
The tanks being loaned from Germany are fully operational, and will be deployed to Afghanistan in conjunction with the next rotation of personnel this summer.

These tanks are able to operate in intense heat as their electric turret systems and more powerful engines generate significantly less heat when operating than the hydraulic systems of Canada’s 30-year-old Leopard 1 fleet. They will also be fitted with climate control systems once in theatre.

ACQUIRING A PROVEN, MODERN MAIN BATTLE TANK
The surplus, modern Leopard 2 tanks being acquired from the Netherlands represent a unique opportunity to acquire proven, effective main battle tanks at a fraction of the cost of a similar, new tank. These tanks have been well maintained and stored in climate-controlled facilities. Due diligence has shown that these tanks will serve Canada effectively, well into the future. In addition, surplus Leopard 2 tanks have been acquired by a number of nations in recent years and have been put into operational service very successfully. This is a proven capability. Their advanced features include significantly increased personnel protection against explosive devices and landmines, an ability to travel considerably faster in difficult terrain, more powerful engines, and stronger firing capabilities.

CANADA’S NEW LEOPARD 2 FLEET
The acquisition of 100 tanks represents the minimum fleet size to support a deployed tank squadron. These 100 vehicles would be broken down into operational and supporting squadrons as follows:

For deployed operations, the Canadian Forces need two combat-ready squadrons of approximately 20 tanks each: one for deployment and a second for rotation into theatre to allow for depot repair and overhaul of the first.
An additional two squadrons of 20 tanks each are required for collective and individual training in Canada.
Individual tank training would be conducted by the squadron based at the Combat Training Centre at CFB Gagetown in New Brunswick
The squadron based at CFB Wainwright at the Canadian Manoeuvre Training Centre would conduct collective unit training to prepare for deployments.
The final 20 vehicles will consist of key support vehicles such as armoured recovery vehicles, armoured bridge-laying vehicles and armoured engineering vehicles (i.e. dozer, plough, excavator).
BENEFITS FOR CANADIANS
This acquisition represents a significant opportunity for Canadian industry. Once negotiations are complete, the Dutch Leopard 2 tanks will be transported to Canada where they will receive the necessary upgrades to final Canadian Forces standards.

In the coming months, the Government of Canada will conduct one or more fair, open and competitive processes for the long-term in-service support of this fleet.

The Canadian Industrial Benefits policy will apply as appropriate. In this context, it may apply to future support, repair or upgrade contracts. The Canadian Industrial Benefits policy is the Government of Canada’s way of leveraging benefits to the Canadian economy as a result of our defence procurements.

THE FUTURE
The Canadian Forces have always planned to retain a direct-fire capability and recent conflicts have confirmed the importance of retaining a tracked tank capability. The Leopard 2 main battle tanks will bring strength, added protection and the ability to access difficult terrain that a wheeled vehicle cannot provide.

This acquisition is a further demonstration of Canada’s New Government’s commitment to renew and transform the Canadian Forces, providing them the equipment they need to do the demanding jobs we as Canadians ask them to do.
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?

"CANADA’S NEW LEOPARD 2 FLEET
The acquisition of 100 tanks represents the minimum fleet size to support a deployed tank squadron. These 100 vehicles would be broken down into operational and supporting squadrons as follows:

For deployed operations, the Canadian Forces need two combat-ready squadrons of approximately 20 tanks each: one for deployment and a second for rotation into theatre to allow for depot repair and overhaul of the first.

An additional two squadrons of 20 tanks each are required for collective and individual training in Canada. Individual tank training would be conducted by the squadron based at the Combat Training Centre at CFB Gagetown in New Brunswick

The squadron based at CFB Wainwright at the Canadian Manoeuvre Training Centre would conduct collective unit training to prepare for deployments.

The final 20 vehicles will consist of key support vehicles such as armoured recovery vehicles, armoured bridge-laying vehicles and armoured engineering vehicles (i.e. dozer, plough, excavator)."

So I wonder if the Beaver engineer vehicles will stay in use until the newer ones arrive?
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:03 am
Post subject: Re: Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?

That explains the 2 lowloaders with Leopard 2A4s on the highway towards Rotterdam last week. Rumours are that the Canadians will be trained on this tanks by the operational tankbatallions and not the cavalry school.

I have to dig up my old Leopard 2A4 mastergunner licence Mr. Green
Back to top
View user's profile
Jason_Bobrowich
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?

All the Leopard 2A4s that Canada is purchasing from the Dutch will be upgraded to the Leopard 2A6 version with additional Canadian modifications.

40 of the 80 2A6s will be further upgraded to the 2A6M version with additional mine protection. 20 of the 2A6Ms will be deployed to Afghanistan when the German loaned 2A6Ms are returned in the summer of 2008. The other 20 2A6Ms will be kept in Canada on standby as operational replacements for the tanks in Afghanistan.

Canadian armoured instructors will first go the Netherlands starting in May and then to Germany. The Germans will instruct the Canadian crewman that will take the German loaned 2A6Ms to Afghanistan and the Canadian instructors will shadow them while the instruction is taking place. For the tours to follow in 2008 the instructors for the crewman will be Canadian.

The Badger, Beaver, and Taurus will all be replaced with Leopard 2 based vehicles. They will stay in use until the new vehicles arrive.

Don't be suprised to see the Leopard C2 still operating in combat in Afghanistan along side the German loaned Leopard 2A6Ms....the C2 has the dozer blade, mine plow, and mine rollers....the 2A6M does not.
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?

- Jason_Bobrowich


The Badger, Beaver, and Taurus will all be replaced with Leopard 2 based vehicles. They will stay in use until the new vehicles arrive.

Don't be suprised to see the Leopard C2 still operating in combat in Afghanistan along side the German loaned Leopard 2A6Ms....the C2 has the dozer blade, mine plow, and mine rollers....the 2A6M does not.


Those specialist vehicles may yet prove to be the war winners. Dozer blade vs mud wall; Beaver excavator arm vs grape hut; and mine plow vs double stack AT mine. I haven't seen much in the news about gun tanks except for a few direct fire missions from one of the FOBs.
Back to top
View user's profile
Jason_Bobrowich
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Canada to buy or lease Leopard 2s?

The Badger is the AEV and the Beaver is the AVLB...no Beaver AVLBs deployed to Afghanistan.

OPSEC is the reason no one is seeing what exactly the tanks or Badgers are doing over there and believe me I have talked to some of the returning crews already and they are doing much more than sitting in the FOBs.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum