±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 293
Total: 293
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Photo Gallery
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Photo Gallery
15: Home
16: Home
17: Home
18: Home
19: Home
20: Home
21: News
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Home
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Home
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Home
38: Home
39: Home
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Photo Gallery
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Home
46: Home
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: Downloads
50: Home
51: Statistics
52: Home
53: Home
54: Home
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Your Account
58: Home
59: Home
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Home
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Home
66: Home
67: Home
68: Home
69: Home
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Home
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Home
77: News
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Home
81: Home
82: Member Screenshots
83: Community Forums
84: News Archive
85: Home
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Home
89: Home
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Home
94: Home
95: Home
96: Home
97: Home
98: Home
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Home
103: Home
104: Home
105: News
106: Home
107: Home
108: Home
109: Home
110: Home
111: Home
112: Home
113: Home
114: Downloads
115: Home
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Home
119: Home
120: Home
121: Home
122: Statistics
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Home
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Home
134: Home
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Home
139: Home
140: Home
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Downloads
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Downloads
147: Statistics
148: Member Screenshots
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Member Screenshots
160: Home
161: Home
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Home
166: Home
167: Home
168: Home
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Home
175: Home
176: Photo Gallery
177: Home
178: Home
179: Downloads
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Community Forums
188: Photo Gallery
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Home
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Home
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Downloads
201: Community Forums
202: LinkToUs
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Home
210: Downloads
211: Home
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: LinkToUs
217: Home
218: Photo Gallery
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Home
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Member Screenshots
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: News
233: Photo Gallery
234: News Archive
235: Home
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: Home
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Downloads
243: Home
244: Home
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Home
248: Home
249: Home
250: Community Forums
251: Home
252: Home
253: News
254: Home
255: Home
256: Photo Gallery
257: Community Forums
258: Home
259: Home
260: Home
261: Home
262: Member Screenshots
263: Community Forums
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Downloads
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Member Screenshots
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Home
280: News
281: Home
282: Home
283: Home
284: Community Forums
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Your Account
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Where is the SN on a Sherman?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:28 pm
Post subject: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

Hello,

I'm doing a little trip next week and I will be able to see some sherman tanks that are exposed in France. I don't know where to find the serial number. Also , what information could I easily get from these tanks that would be useful for you, and where could I find it?

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

Most of the time you can find them on the rear tow lugs/points, assuming they havent been painted over several times.

Neil

From the Sherman register:
web.inter.nl.net/users...serial.htm

M4 and M4A1
The tank serial number is only stamped on a plate attached to the lower left hull plate.

M4A2
The tank serial number is stamped on the two rear tow points.

M4A3
Apart from on the data plate, the Ford built M4A3 has its serial number and Ordnance serial number stamped on the rear hull plate. The numbers are stamped on the right side, the smaller of the two numbers is the Ordnance s/n, the larger is the Ford s/n. These numbers are repeated on the right side of the front armour, but you really have to look for it. Also, the Ford s/n is repeated on several of the major parts, such as the mantlet.
On the ultimate generation M4A3s built by Grand Blanc Tank Arsenal, the serial number is stamped on the two rear tow points. The Detroit Tank Arsenal tanks are rather problematic. Some of their vehicles have the serial number stamped on the two rear tow points, while others lack any serial number markings other than on the data plate.

M4A4
The vehicle serial is stamped on each boss to which the towing shackle is attached.
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

Thanks Neil, I will print this page, it's very informative. Anything else I could get or take in photo?

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

Just as an example, here's a picture Jeff Button took of the tow lug on an M4A3(105) - its pretty typical of what you are looking for.



Honestly, I'm not real good at finding the SNs anywhere else on a Sherman, but there may be other examples that have been posted here (I'll try to look for one).

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

This page may also be of interest - it explains other stamps & castings you may see, but they are generally of less importance:

web.inter.nl.net/users...oundry.htm

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:41 am
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

There are various ways to identify a Sherman, even if you can not find a serial number. Most Shermans were built by Chysler or Fisher. A build number by Chrysler would appear on the right side-edge of the front glacis. Fisher's would be on the opposite side.
- Early Shermans had 3 small "weep" holes(drain holes) in the rear area of the turret splash gaurds, later modles had 1 large hole.
- These two companies also filled in their differential over-cuts differently. Chrysler appears to be a half-round fill, while Fishers are square in appearance.
- Early M4A3s had one piece rear engine deck plate, while later models and those that were rebuilt had the preferred two piece.
- All 47degree hull M4A3s had 5 digit serial numbers.
- A Sherman thats had HVSS upgarde, usually has weld scars on the left and right of the upper rear hull plate where the spare VVSS track holders were removed.
- If you find a "CP" in front of a part number on the glacis, this would indicate a Chrysler/Plymouth build.
- If you find a Sherman with HVSS, check to see if its a rebuild or original HVSS by looking at the suspension mounts on the side of the hull. Factory HVSS is bolted on while retro-fitted HVSS is welded on.
- Also look at the track, T66 track is all metal and relatively rare due to it being inferior and not liked by crews. They were the first type of track used on HVSS M4A3 (76) sent to Europe during WWII.
These are just a few of the tips sent to me by Joe DeMarco while I researched and "decoded" the 8 M4's here at Ft Hood. I have pictures of all these examples I have listed but they are on my work computer and not here at home. I just photograph and write down each and every marking I think is appicable to the vehicles ID.
The site Doug lists with its Foundry markings can also help alot, since many of the foundries only operated during certain years and for cetain vehicle types. Those foundry marks will also help with M26, M48, M60's as well. I hope this helps. I'll try and get those pictures on here if I can. A pictures worth a thousand words, esspecially when researching armor!

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:28 am
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

This is "Barfly" an M4A3E8 (76)HVSS, serial number 63350, Reg number 30116372. It was built December 1944 at Fisher Grand Blanc Arsenal. Fisher only built 525 M4A3's between Sept and December of 1944. This tank originally had VVSS suspension. The HVSS was most likely retrofitted at Red River Arsenal. Turret appears appears to have come from an earlier Chrysler M4A3 (76) due to the extra lifting ring in front of the split loaders hatch. Chrysler used 400-500 of those turrets on the earliest M4A3 (76) they built. The turret appears to be a left over from Chryslers abortive T23 program where the extra lifting ring served a winch purpose on the T23 medium tank.
Joe DeMarco came across a US Archievesdocument that shows 30116372 as having been issued to the 13th Tank Battalion, 1st AD, Italy, 4/1/45.
-The rear deck had the two piece deck cover.
-The sqaure "fill-in" weld area by the front diff's indicates a Fisher build. Chryslers hull builds look like half circle fills.
-The rear tow lug on this tank was on the left, however I have found them on either rear tow lug, but never the front.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

Here are two more pictures I found that will help you identify and date an M4 model. "Barfly" from the previous pictures has the one large "weep" (drain) hole in the turret splash gaurd, which would indicate a later built Sherman. Here is a picture of an early build example with the two smaller drain holes. I also previously posted the square "diff fill area" that would indicate a Fisher build M4. This picture shows a round fill, which was typical of Chrysler built M4's. Here is also a picture of where Chrysler build stampings would be found on the front edge of the glacis, Fishers were on the opposite side.


_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:21 am
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?






Here are some more photo's I dug up that help you identify between a Chrysler and Fisher built M4. I will never look at an M4 varient the same way again now knowing all the little intricacies there are to tell all the differences.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:07 am
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

A 'trick' I have used to make stamped serial numbers show up better is to simply rub over them a few times with my thumb. It clears the oxidized paint and dust a little and seems to give the stamped numbers a little more contrast. It can also make the are stand out a little better in the photo. I keep meaning to put some 'Wetnaps' or baby wipes in the truck so that I don't have to use my thumb but never think about it until it's too late. Oh and remember that most old paint is lead based so don't go licking you fingers after you've been rubbing tanks. Rolling Eyes

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum