±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 277
Total: 277
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Home
06: Home
07: Home
08: Member Screenshots
09: Member Screenshots
10: Photo Gallery
11: Home
12: Member Screenshots
13: Member Screenshots
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Member Screenshots
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Member Screenshots
27: Member Screenshots
28: Downloads
29: Downloads
30: News Archive
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Downloads
36: Home
37: Member Screenshots
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Downloads
42: Community Forums
43: Your Account
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Member Screenshots
47: Statistics
48: Home
49: Home
50: Downloads
51: Home
52: Home
53: Home
54: Member Screenshots
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: News
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Home
66: News Archive
67: Member Screenshots
68: Photo Gallery
69: Member Screenshots
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Member Screenshots
73: Community Forums
74: Member Screenshots
75: Member Screenshots
76: Member Screenshots
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Home
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Member Screenshots
84: Home
85: Home
86: Photo Gallery
87: Member Screenshots
88: Member Screenshots
89: Community Forums
90: Member Screenshots
91: Photo Gallery
92: Community Forums
93: Member Screenshots
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Member Screenshots
102: Member Screenshots
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Home
107: Downloads
108: Home
109: Home
110: Community Forums
111: Photo Gallery
112: Home
113: Photo Gallery
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: Home
117: Home
118: Home
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Downloads
122: Member Screenshots
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Member Screenshots
130: Photo Gallery
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Member Screenshots
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Downloads
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Member Screenshots
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Downloads
144: Downloads
145: Downloads
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: News
149: News Archive
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Member Screenshots
153: Downloads
154: Member Screenshots
155: Home
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Photo Gallery
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Member Screenshots
163: Community Forums
164: Photo Gallery
165: Photo Gallery
166: Downloads
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Member Screenshots
175: Home
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Member Screenshots
180: Community Forums
181: Member Screenshots
182: Home
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Member Screenshots
186: Community Forums
187: Member Screenshots
188: Home
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Member Screenshots
193: Downloads
194: Community Forums
195: Statistics
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: News
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: News
204: Member Screenshots
205: Community Forums
206: Home
207: Member Screenshots
208: News Archive
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Community Forums
215: Member Screenshots
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Your Account
221: Community Forums
222: Home
223: Home
224: Home
225: Home
226: News Archive
227: Member Screenshots
228: Photo Gallery
229: Downloads
230: Home
231: Community Forums
232: Downloads
233: Home
234: Photo Gallery
235: Home
236: Home
237: Photo Gallery
238: Your Account
239: Home
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: Home
243: Home
244: Community Forums
245: Photo Gallery
246: Home
247: Photo Gallery
248: Home
249: Home
250: Community Forums
251: Member Screenshots
252: Member Screenshots
253: Community Forums
254: News Archive
255: News Archive
256: Photo Gallery
257: Photo Gallery
258: Home
259: Community Forums
260: Downloads
261: Home
262: Member Screenshots
263: Home
264: Community Forums
265: Member Screenshots
266: Home
267: Downloads
268: Downloads
269: Member Screenshots
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Home
273: Member Screenshots
274: Home
275: Home
276: Photo Gallery
277: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:21 pm
Post subject: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

I stop by the Ft. Bliss M60A0 Friday on my way home from work.

Per Joe D's info on where to look for SN's and RN's, I think I found them.

Standing in front of the vehicle looking at it. The right tow lug has the number 59 on it. Looks like someone else had been looking for it also because the paint had been scrap away.

Checking the area below the right front headlight assemble, I was able to scrap a little paint away and found the RN to be 9B3093.

Unable to confirm the SN on the left rear hull/engine deck area. Way to much paint.

I tried to take pictures of the numbers, but I guess my little camera don't focus very well on things like that.

Serial Number: 59
Registration: 9B3093

Location correction for the AFV Register: vehicle is out in front of the Ft Bliss Museum building. You have it listed as "else where on post".


Sometime ago I had posted a photo of the red sign the museum had behind the tank calling it a M60A3. The sun destoryed it within a few years.


The museum has replace that sign with one that has a white back ground and has corrected the mistake made on the red one.


The staff here maybe primarly air defense, but it look like they do listen when folks tell them something is wrong.

Update on the 1st Armored Division and it's upcoming move to Ft. Bliss.
Around fall of last year, the lead elements for the FCS Evaluation BCT opened an office here at Ft. Bliss.
February 8, 2007 issue of the Monitor (base newspaper) listed the DWI report for 2006/2007 by Brigades and their units.
1st Bn 36 Infantry, 1st Bde, 1st Armored Division was listed as one of the brigades on the metrix. Per 1st AD web site, 1/36 Inf, 1st Bde is stationed at Giessen Germany.
March 2, 2007, About 30 some troops where spotted, at the base Burger King getting breakfast, wearing 1st AD shoulder patchs.
There have been no big news reports other that the 1st AD is coming and the base and the city is working hard to build enough infrastructure to support all of units and their families.
Looks like the 1/36 is going to be the FCS Evaluation unit.

Spot Reports from Ft. Bliss.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

Guilty for that one Mr. Green ,
Hi Roy,
When I was at Bliss last June for 4 days before I shipped here I spotted the old girl and got the serial number. I just didn't have a camera with me. I was kinda on a tight schedule. I didn't have time to get the Registartion number either, but that should be it. Thanks for posting the picture.


Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

I stop by the Ft. Bliss M60A0 Friday on my way home from work.

Per Joe D's info on where to look for SN's and RN's, I think I found them.

Standing in front of the vehicle looking at it. The right tow lug has the number 59 on it. Looks like someone else had been looking for it also because the paint had been scrap away.

Checking the area below the right front headlight assemble, I was able to scrap a little paint away and found the RN to be 9B3093.

Unable to confirm the SN on the left rear hull/engine deck area. Way to much paint.

I tried to take pictures of the numbers, but I guess my little camera don't focus very well on things like that.

Serial Number: 59
Registration: 9B3093

. . .

Spot Reports from Ft. Bliss.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Wait a minute

I thought we had RN 9B3093 on s/n 10 The 'smooth bore' M60 at Ft Hood, which fell in line with RN 9B3096 s/n 13 at Thurmont. If the sequence runs true s/n 59 would be 9B3142.

Just an observation

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

Duplicate RNs is not that unusual when at least one example is painted on. The Hood M60A0 has 9B3093 painted on, but I didnt see where Jeff reported he found it stamped anywhere...

Roy, did you find that RN stamped somewhere on the Bliss example, or painted on?

Bob, same question for yours... Obviously, you always trust stamps over paint...

You certainly wouldnt want to trust the RNs painted on most of the newly repainted vehicles at APG - although the original paint job RNs seem to have been accurate...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:20 am
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

I've got stamps and paint in Thurmont (The paint is very faded)


_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:20 am
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

Roy did you find that RN stamped somewhere on the Bliss example, or painted on?


Stamped into the hull, below front head light assemble to the driver's left front point of view.

The vehicle was painted by a group of volunteers who had no idea how a tank like that should have been painted. The staff at that time also didn't really care sense he didn't want the vehicle to start with.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

Interesting - The location is the same as on Thurmont and several of the M60s I looked at in New Jersey.

So I guess we need The Ft Hood contingent to check-in with their information.

Now a general question

How are Registration numbers assigned? Is their a Regulation specifying who assigns them? How are they used?

In the Air Force every Aircraft had a tail number that was assigned (I believe) when the funds were allocated (Which is why we were receiving '75' aircraft in 1977 at Langley) That tail number is the basis for recording all work on the aircraft as well as being the primary identifier both visually and in conversation. You can go out on websites and see a basic history of aircraft by tail number back to at least WWII. Although the website is maintained by an enthusiast the basic records come from the government since the tail number is the primary means of cataloging that aircrafts documents.

I also know that in the Air Force ground vehicles had a number stenciled on the door, I guess this was the registration number. The Air Force numbers always began with the year followed by a letter then a number. I know that we used that number for all the maintenance records so I assumed that they were filed away like aircraft forms.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

I am reasonably certain registration numbers were assigned by the Ordnance Corps, at least before '61. Afterwards, probably assigned by the Army Materiel Command. They usually have some sort of format that means you can find a "key" number to subtract and match up the SN - but sometimes there are gaps & therefore multiple possible keys...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Jens_O_Mehner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 511
Location: Giessen, Germany
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

RNs, the eternal can of worms...

All I remember at this point was that the system changed a few times, IIRC the first digits in the old USA #s gave an indication of the type of vehicle (I've more on this somewhere but I just moved), then there was a period when the first digits before the letter (eg 9A4759, 13C501) indicated either the type or the weight class, 9 being tanks, 11 on M551s, M113s, M114 + A1s, M41s and M42s usually had 12 (12HN04 should be familiar to someone, 12F46069 as well), M114E1/A2s had 13- I think it was a weight-based classification, but I'm not sure, it's been to long since I last heard it explained and I know I was given a number of different explanations.

Anyways, sometime in the mid/late 80s, the N-registration was introduced and AFAIK there was no particular rhyme or reason to it. Interesting tidbit: When I was working for AOAP way back when, all those numbers were always referred to as USA #s by us technicians as well as US Army personnel, a registration number was something that existed only in the civilian world.

Not much help, I know...

Jens O.
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

Keep in mind they go as far back as the cavalry combat cars, Shermans & Stuarts, etc. Back then they were entirely numbers, no letters. At some point, I wonder if it was around '61, letters got introduced... I'm reasonably certain they were referred to as registration numbers way back in WWII and before, albeit colloquially as "USA" numbers.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Jens_O_Mehner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 511
Location: Giessen, Germany
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

- Neil_Baumgardner
Keep in mind they go as far back as the cavalry combat cars, Shermans & Stuarts, etc. Back then they were entirely numbers, no letters. At some point, I wonder if it was around '61, letters got introduced... I'm reasonably certain they were referred to as registration numbers way back in WWII and before, albeit colloquially as "USA" numbers.

Neil


Yes,

the old USA #s from way back when were what I was referring to, they were keyed to the equipment type- I really have to unpack the book boxes. As for colloquially, you know there's always a difference to what's written on paper and the soldier's vocabulary... Laughing

Cheers,

Jens O.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum