±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 487
Total: 487
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Home
08: Home
09: Home
10: Home
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Downloads
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: News Archive
34: Home
35: Home
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Downloads
44: Community Forums
45: Home
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: News Archive
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Member Screenshots
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Downloads
63: Home
64: Home
65: Downloads
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Photo Gallery
72: Home
73: Downloads
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Member Screenshots
83: Community Forums
84: Downloads
85: Member Screenshots
86: Photo Gallery
87: News Archive
88: Community Forums
89: Member Screenshots
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Member Screenshots
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Home
98: Member Screenshots
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Member Screenshots
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Home
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Community Forums
110: Member Screenshots
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Community Forums
123: News Archive
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Member Screenshots
129: Home
130: News
131: Community Forums
132: Photo Gallery
133: Community Forums
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Downloads
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Member Screenshots
143: News Archive
144: Home
145: Photo Gallery
146: Member Screenshots
147: Community Forums
148: Member Screenshots
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Downloads
153: Home
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Member Screenshots
159: Member Screenshots
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Member Screenshots
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: News Archive
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Search
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Photo Gallery
183: Member Screenshots
184: Photo Gallery
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Downloads
191: Home
192: Home
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Member Screenshots
199: Community Forums
200: Home
201: Home
202: Home
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Home
207: Home
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Member Screenshots
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: News Archive
220: Home
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: Home
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: Photo Gallery
229: Community Forums
230: Photo Gallery
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Photo Gallery
234: Home
235: Downloads
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Downloads
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Photo Gallery
251: Photo Gallery
252: Your Account
253: Home
254: Home
255: Home
256: Photo Gallery
257: Community Forums
258: Member Screenshots
259: Home
260: Member Screenshots
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Home
265: Downloads
266: Home
267: Home
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Member Screenshots
272: Community Forums
273: Member Screenshots
274: Member Screenshots
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Downloads
278: Community Forums
279: Home
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Home
291: Downloads
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Photo Gallery
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Home
299: Home
300: Home
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Home
305: Community Forums
306: Home
307: Downloads
308: Member Screenshots
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Home
316: Home
317: Home
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Home
325: Home
326: Community Forums
327: Home
328: Home
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Statistics
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Photo Gallery
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Downloads
340: Home
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Downloads
344: News
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Home
351: Community Forums
352: Member Screenshots
353: Home
354: Community Forums
355: News
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Home
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Home
363: Community Forums
364: Downloads
365: Member Screenshots
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Member Screenshots
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Member Screenshots
375: Home
376: Member Screenshots
377: Member Screenshots
378: Home
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Home
386: Home
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: News Archive
392: Home
393: Member Screenshots
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Home
397: Home
398: Downloads
399: Community Forums
400: Downloads
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: News Archive
406: News Archive
407: Downloads
408: Downloads
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Member Screenshots
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Community Forums
415: Downloads
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Member Screenshots
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Home
424: Community Forums
425: Photo Gallery
426: Home
427: Home
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Photo Gallery
432: Home
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Home
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Photo Gallery
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: News
445: Community Forums
446: Home
447: Home
448: Home
449: Home
450: Home
451: News
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: Home
455: Home
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Home
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Home
462: Community Forums
463: Home
464: Home
465: News Archive
466: Community Forums
467: Downloads
468: Community Forums
469: Member Screenshots
470: Home
471: Community Forums
472: Home
473: Community Forums
474: Home
475: Community Forums
476: News
477: Community Forums
478: Home
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Home
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Home
487: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:21 pm
Post subject: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

I stop by the Ft. Bliss M60A0 Friday on my way home from work.

Per Joe D's info on where to look for SN's and RN's, I think I found them.

Standing in front of the vehicle looking at it. The right tow lug has the number 59 on it. Looks like someone else had been looking for it also because the paint had been scrap away.

Checking the area below the right front headlight assemble, I was able to scrap a little paint away and found the RN to be 9B3093.

Unable to confirm the SN on the left rear hull/engine deck area. Way to much paint.

I tried to take pictures of the numbers, but I guess my little camera don't focus very well on things like that.

Serial Number: 59
Registration: 9B3093

Location correction for the AFV Register: vehicle is out in front of the Ft Bliss Museum building. You have it listed as "else where on post".


Sometime ago I had posted a photo of the red sign the museum had behind the tank calling it a M60A3. The sun destoryed it within a few years.


The museum has replace that sign with one that has a white back ground and has corrected the mistake made on the red one.


The staff here maybe primarly air defense, but it look like they do listen when folks tell them something is wrong.

Update on the 1st Armored Division and it's upcoming move to Ft. Bliss.
Around fall of last year, the lead elements for the FCS Evaluation BCT opened an office here at Ft. Bliss.
February 8, 2007 issue of the Monitor (base newspaper) listed the DWI report for 2006/2007 by Brigades and their units.
1st Bn 36 Infantry, 1st Bde, 1st Armored Division was listed as one of the brigades on the metrix. Per 1st AD web site, 1/36 Inf, 1st Bde is stationed at Giessen Germany.
March 2, 2007, About 30 some troops where spotted, at the base Burger King getting breakfast, wearing 1st AD shoulder patchs.
There have been no big news reports other that the 1st AD is coming and the base and the city is working hard to build enough infrastructure to support all of units and their families.
Looks like the 1/36 is going to be the FCS Evaluation unit.

Spot Reports from Ft. Bliss.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

Guilty for that one Mr. Green ,
Hi Roy,
When I was at Bliss last June for 4 days before I shipped here I spotted the old girl and got the serial number. I just didn't have a camera with me. I was kinda on a tight schedule. I didn't have time to get the Registartion number either, but that should be it. Thanks for posting the picture.


Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

I stop by the Ft. Bliss M60A0 Friday on my way home from work.

Per Joe D's info on where to look for SN's and RN's, I think I found them.

Standing in front of the vehicle looking at it. The right tow lug has the number 59 on it. Looks like someone else had been looking for it also because the paint had been scrap away.

Checking the area below the right front headlight assemble, I was able to scrap a little paint away and found the RN to be 9B3093.

Unable to confirm the SN on the left rear hull/engine deck area. Way to much paint.

I tried to take pictures of the numbers, but I guess my little camera don't focus very well on things like that.

Serial Number: 59
Registration: 9B3093

. . .

Spot Reports from Ft. Bliss.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Wait a minute

I thought we had RN 9B3093 on s/n 10 The 'smooth bore' M60 at Ft Hood, which fell in line with RN 9B3096 s/n 13 at Thurmont. If the sequence runs true s/n 59 would be 9B3142.

Just an observation

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

Duplicate RNs is not that unusual when at least one example is painted on. The Hood M60A0 has 9B3093 painted on, but I didnt see where Jeff reported he found it stamped anywhere...

Roy, did you find that RN stamped somewhere on the Bliss example, or painted on?

Bob, same question for yours... Obviously, you always trust stamps over paint...

You certainly wouldnt want to trust the RNs painted on most of the newly repainted vehicles at APG - although the original paint job RNs seem to have been accurate...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:20 am
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

I've got stamps and paint in Thurmont (The paint is very faded)


_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:20 am
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

Roy did you find that RN stamped somewhere on the Bliss example, or painted on?


Stamped into the hull, below front head light assemble to the driver's left front point of view.

The vehicle was painted by a group of volunteers who had no idea how a tank like that should have been painted. The staff at that time also didn't really care sense he didn't want the vehicle to start with.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

Interesting - The location is the same as on Thurmont and several of the M60s I looked at in New Jersey.

So I guess we need The Ft Hood contingent to check-in with their information.

Now a general question

How are Registration numbers assigned? Is their a Regulation specifying who assigns them? How are they used?

In the Air Force every Aircraft had a tail number that was assigned (I believe) when the funds were allocated (Which is why we were receiving '75' aircraft in 1977 at Langley) That tail number is the basis for recording all work on the aircraft as well as being the primary identifier both visually and in conversation. You can go out on websites and see a basic history of aircraft by tail number back to at least WWII. Although the website is maintained by an enthusiast the basic records come from the government since the tail number is the primary means of cataloging that aircrafts documents.

I also know that in the Air Force ground vehicles had a number stenciled on the door, I guess this was the registration number. The Air Force numbers always began with the year followed by a letter then a number. I know that we used that number for all the maintenance records so I assumed that they were filed away like aircraft forms.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

I am reasonably certain registration numbers were assigned by the Ordnance Corps, at least before '61. Afterwards, probably assigned by the Army Materiel Command. They usually have some sort of format that means you can find a "key" number to subtract and match up the SN - but sometimes there are gaps & therefore multiple possible keys...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Jens_O_Mehner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 511
Location: Giessen, Germany
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

RNs, the eternal can of worms...

All I remember at this point was that the system changed a few times, IIRC the first digits in the old USA #s gave an indication of the type of vehicle (I've more on this somewhere but I just moved), then there was a period when the first digits before the letter (eg 9A4759, 13C501) indicated either the type or the weight class, 9 being tanks, 11 on M551s, M113s, M114 + A1s, M41s and M42s usually had 12 (12HN04 should be familiar to someone, 12F46069 as well), M114E1/A2s had 13- I think it was a weight-based classification, but I'm not sure, it's been to long since I last heard it explained and I know I was given a number of different explanations.

Anyways, sometime in the mid/late 80s, the N-registration was introduced and AFAIK there was no particular rhyme or reason to it. Interesting tidbit: When I was working for AOAP way back when, all those numbers were always referred to as USA #s by us technicians as well as US Army personnel, a registration number was something that existed only in the civilian world.

Not much help, I know...

Jens O.
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

Keep in mind they go as far back as the cavalry combat cars, Shermans & Stuarts, etc. Back then they were entirely numbers, no letters. At some point, I wonder if it was around '61, letters got introduced... I'm reasonably certain they were referred to as registration numbers way back in WWII and before, albeit colloquially as "USA" numbers.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Jens_O_Mehner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 511
Location: Giessen, Germany
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil, correction and update for the AFV Register

- Neil_Baumgardner
Keep in mind they go as far back as the cavalry combat cars, Shermans & Stuarts, etc. Back then they were entirely numbers, no letters. At some point, I wonder if it was around '61, letters got introduced... I'm reasonably certain they were referred to as registration numbers way back in WWII and before, albeit colloquially as "USA" numbers.

Neil


Yes,

the old USA #s from way back when were what I was referring to, they were keyed to the equipment type- I really have to unpack the book boxes. As for colloquially, you know there's always a difference to what's written on paper and the soldier's vocabulary... Laughing

Cheers,

Jens O.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum