±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 286
Total: 286
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Home
04: Member Screenshots
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: News Archive
09: Home
10: Home
11: Home
12: Home
13: Member Screenshots
14: Photo Gallery
15: Community Forums
16: Downloads
17: Community Forums
18: News Archive
19: Photo Gallery
20: Downloads
21: Photo Gallery
22: Photo Gallery
23: Member Screenshots
24: Member Screenshots
25: Community Forums
26: Downloads
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Downloads
34: Photo Gallery
35: Photo Gallery
36: Community Forums
37: Home
38: Community Forums
39: Photo Gallery
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Member Screenshots
46: Photo Gallery
47: Your Account
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Member Screenshots
51: Member Screenshots
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Home
60: Home
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Photo Gallery
65: Contact
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Home
71: Home
72: Photo Gallery
73: Downloads
74: Photo Gallery
75: Community Forums
76: Member Screenshots
77: Community Forums
78: Photo Gallery
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Photo Gallery
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Downloads
92: Community Forums
93: Downloads
94: Downloads
95: Downloads
96: Photo Gallery
97: Downloads
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Home
101: Photo Gallery
102: Downloads
103: Home
104: Downloads
105: Community Forums
106: Your Account
107: Community Forums
108: Your Account
109: Photo Gallery
110: Downloads
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Member Screenshots
114: Community Forums
115: Downloads
116: Home
117: Community Forums
118: Your Account
119: Community Forums
120: Home
121: Photo Gallery
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Member Screenshots
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Member Screenshots
129: Community Forums
130: Member Screenshots
131: Home
132: Home
133: Home
134: Home
135: Home
136: Home
137: Home
138: Member Screenshots
139: Home
140: Community Forums
141: Home
142: Photo Gallery
143: Home
144: Community Forums
145: Home
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Home
149: Downloads
150: Home
151: Home
152: Home
153: Home
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Statistics
160: Downloads
161: Home
162: Home
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Member Screenshots
171: Home
172: Downloads
173: Community Forums
174: Member Screenshots
175: Member Screenshots
176: Home
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Downloads
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Home
190: News
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Home
195: Home
196: News
197: Home
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Home
201: Home
202: Home
203: Downloads
204: Home
205: Member Screenshots
206: Home
207: Member Screenshots
208: Community Forums
209: Home
210: Home
211: Home
212: Home
213: Home
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Downloads
218: Photo Gallery
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Home
222: Community Forums
223: Home
224: Home
225: News
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: Home
229: Community Forums
230: News Archive
231: Home
232: Downloads
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Home
237: Statistics
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Home
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Home
244: Home
245: Photo Gallery
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: Downloads
250: Photo Gallery
251: Downloads
252: Member Screenshots
253: Community Forums
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Photo Gallery
260: Community Forums
261: Home
262: Photo Gallery
263: Photo Gallery
264: Downloads
265: Member Screenshots
266: Downloads
267: Member Screenshots
268: Photo Gallery
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Member Screenshots
272: Community Forums
273: Photo Gallery
274: Photo Gallery
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: News Archive
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: News Archive
281: Home
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: Photo Gallery
285: Your Account
286: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Armor Museums/Displays in Poland
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:40 pm
Post subject: Armor Museums/Displays in Poland

Hopefully in/around Warsaw? Looks like I'm goin' in late April. Any specifics would be appreciated regarding locations, directions, hours, what I can expect to find, stuff like that...
I might get elsewhere, but my schedule is seldom my own.


Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Sat May 05, 2007 3:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Jens_O_Mehner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 511
Location: Giessen, Germany
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor Museums/Displays in Poland?

Hey,

how about I do your travelling and you stay at home- my per diem is very reasonable Laughing

There is one museum near Warsaw which I can't remember right now, lot of outdoor displays in a rather sorry state (lack of funds), as soon as it pops up again in my cranium, I'll let you know.

A must-see is the museum of the 1944 uprising, the Muzeum Powstania Warszawskiego, ul. Grzybowska 79, see www.1944.pl for details. At Fort Sadyba is a museum commemorating the killing of 15,000 Polish officers at Katyn and Smolensk in 1940, and there is also an Army museum, but IIRC this runs more towards the pre-1900 period.

Cheers,

Jens O.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor Museums/Displays in Poland?

- Jens_O_Mehner
Hey,

how about I do your travelling and you stay at home- my per diem is very reasonable Laughing

There is one museum near Warsaw which I can't remember right now, lot of outdoor displays in a rather sorry state (lack of funds), as soon as it pops up again in my cranium, I'll let you know.

A must-see is the museum of the 1944 uprising, the Muzeum Powstania Warszawskiego, ul. Grzybowska 79, see www.1944.pl for details. At Fort Sadyba is a museum commemorating the killing of 15,000 Polish officers at Katyn and Smolensk in 1940, and there is also an Army museum, but IIRC this runs more towards the pre-1900 period.

Cheers,

Jens O.


Jens,

Well, not that the travelling doesn't get tiresome from time-to-time, but my per diem isn't all that reasonable...and, I've got the guys paying the bills completely snookered into believing I've got some kind of skillsets and need to perpetuate this myth. Wink

Be that as it may, and as appealing as the other exhibits look, we need to focus here and stick with the real crowd pleasers for the first visit (I'll doubtless be going back if I manage not to offend the gov't.) Besides, if you've forgotten where the tanks are, that's not a good recommendation for your going in my stead! Laughing

Standing by waiting for it to "come to you" again.... Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Jens_O_Mehner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 511
Location: Giessen, Germany
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor Museums/Displays in Poland?

- Doug_Kibbey

Jens,

Well, not that the travelling doesn't get tiresome from time-to-time, but my per diem isn't all that reasonable...and, I've got the guys paying the bills completely snookered into believing I've got some kind of skillsets and need to perpetuate this myth. Wink

Be that as it may, and as appealing as the other exhibits look, we need to focus here and stick with the real crowd pleasers for the first visit (I'll doubtless be going back if I manage not to offend the gov't.) Besides, if you've forgotten where the tanks are, that's not a good recommendation for your going in my stead! Laughing

Standing by waiting for it to "come to you" again.... Wink


Hey,

give an old man a break, I've been preoccupied with Jordanian tanks lately Mr. Green , not to mention unpacking after my move. Crying or Very sad Besides, Poland has a ton of museums that are somehow military-related, but I found the website for the place I was thinking of, it also features a directory of Polish military museums, now how's that? If you can travel some, have a look at Muzeum Uzbrojenia in Poznan's citadel, while there, you can also go to the Polish armor museum there- am I in good stead again? Cool

Cheers,

Jens O.

PS: While there, sample all the Polish food you can get, and don't forget to buy some real Kielbasas...
Back to top
View user's profile
Polar
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 96
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:07 am
Post subject: Re: Armor Museums/Displays in Poland?

Warsaw Military Museum

Polish Army Museum

Main bulding
al. Jerozolimskie 3 (street)
00-495 Warszawa

Museum of Polish Military Technik
Fort IX Czerniakowski
ul.Powsinska 13 (street)

Open: Wensday - 10.00 - 17.00
Thursday - Sunday- 10.00 - 16.00
tel. 022 629 52 71(72)
fax 022 629 52 73
price : normal ticket - 8 PLN (2,5 $)
guide in english - 50 PLN (17 $)

On outdoor exibition you can doing photos but if you want doing indoor photos you must pay for this.
Register is one for Main building and Fort IX Czerniakowski (Sadyba) at the ul.Powsinska 13 because exhibits are often transferred between both section Museum


IS-3 PL out Is one of the two Poland received. Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

IS-2M PL out few years ago this tank was monument in Pruszkow. Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

M4A1 Grizzly PL out presented as Sherman from 1st Polish Armoured Division. Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

T-34/76 PL out model 1942. Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

T-34/85 PL out model 1944. Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

T-34/85 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

T-55U PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

T-55M PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

T-55AM2 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski
T-72 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

PT-76 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

ISU-152 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

SU-85 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

SU-76 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

ASU-85 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

T16 .... ind Universal Carrier built in USA Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

Humber SC Mk.I.... ind Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

TKS PL ind Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

BRDM-1 PL out missile laucher Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

BRDM-2 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

BTR-40 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

BTR-60 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

BTR-152 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

BTR-152W PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

OT-62C TOPAS-2AP PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

FUG PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

SKOT 2AP PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

SKOT-2A PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

SKOT-R3 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

SKOT-R6 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

SKOT-2 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

R-5 PL out (BRDM-2 chassis) Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

MT-LB PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

ZSU-23-4 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

ZSU-57-2 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

BMP-1 PL out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

BRDM-2 PL out 9K35M3 Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

R-11M SCUD PL out on IS-2 chassis Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

R-11M SCUD PL out on IS-2 chassis Last location Central Bulding

T-34/76 PL out model 1941. Last location Central Bulding

T-34/85 PL out Last location Central Bulding.

SU-76 PL out Last location Central Bulding

ISU-122 PL out Last location Central Bulding

T-55 PL out Last location Central Bulding.

IS-2 PL out Last location Central Bulding.

ZSU-57-2 PL out Last location Central Bulding

PT-76 PL out Last location Central Bulding

OT-62C TOPAS-2AP PL out Last location Central Bulding

BAV(ZiS-485) PL out Last location Central Bulding six-wheel-drive amphibian

BTR-152 PL out Last location Central Bulding

BRDM-2 PL out Last location Central Bulding

BRDM-1 PL out Last location Central Bulding

SKOT 2AP PL out Last location Central Bulding

Sd.Kfz. 251/1 Ausf.D .... out Last location Central Bulding

Jagdpanzer 38 'Hetzer' .... out Last location Central Bulding

Su-57 PL out Last location Central Bulding

Leopard 1A4, GER out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski


Sexton II PL out Last location Central Bulding

M107 ... out Last location Fort IX Czerniakowski

2s1 PL out Last location Central Bulding


Panther ... out Last location Central Bulding hull in a very bad condition

PzKpfw III ... out Last location Central Bulding hull in a very bad condition

StuG III ... out Last location Central Bulding only turret

Kubu? PL out Last location Central Bulding Kubu? was a Polish WWII armoured car, made by the Home Army during the Warsaw Uprising. A single copy was built on the chassis of a Chevrolet van and took part in the fights.


Museum Land Forces
Warsaw Citadel
ul. Dymi?ska 1 (street)
WARING: Museum is on Military zone if you want see this place you must telephone few days before trip
telephone 022 687 82 95
open: Monday - Friday (8,00-15.00)

T-34/85

T-55

BTR-152

ZSU-57-2

BRDM-1

SKOT 2AP

SKOT R-1

PTMS

all photos © by Polar (me)
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Polar
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 96
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:07 am
Post subject: Re: Armor Museums/Displays in Poland?

This Museum in Poznan is on Military Zone. You must phone if you want enter.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:55 am
Post subject: Re: Armor Museums/Displays in Poland?

- Polar
Warsaw Military Museum

Polish Army Museum

Main bulding
al. Jerozolimskie 3 (street)
00-495 Warszawa

Museum of Polish Military Technik
Fort IX Czerniakowski
ul.Powsinska 13 (street)

Open: Wensday - 10.00 - 17.00
Thursday - Sunday- 10.00 - 16.00
tel. 022 629 52 71(72)
fax 022 629 52 73
price : normal ticket - 8 PLN (2,5 $)
guide in english - 50 PLN (17 $)

On outdoor exibition you can doing photos but if you want doing indoor photos you must pay for this.
Register is one for Main building and Fort IX Czerniakowski (Sadyba) at the ul.Powsinska 13 because exhibits are often transferred between both section Museum

WARING: Museum is on Military zone if you want see this place you must telephone few days before trip
telephone 022 687 82 95
open: Monday - Friday (8,00-15.00)

all photos © by Polar (me)


Hi Polar!

Well, you pretty much just became "our man in Poland", by default!

So, for a fellow on primarily a medical business trip with a limited schedule, what is the best "investment of time" for someone who might only get to make ONE stop? Where would you recommend that is relatively accessable for my hosts? Cost is not a issue, but time and location might be. Best collection (most varied, best condition, most unusual armored stuff)? For a first time visitor, which should I ask to see first?

Thanks for the great list and directions, by the way...I'll be printing that out!

Doug
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Polar
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 96
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor Museums/Displays in Poland?

So, for a fellow on primarily a medical business trip with a limited schedule, what is the best "investment of time" for someone who might only get to make ONE stop


This is depend what you are interested and how many time do you have. One hour, few hour or maybe one day.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor Museums/Displays in Poland?

- Polar
So, for a fellow on primarily a medical business trip with a limited schedule, what is the best "investment of time" for someone who might only get to make ONE stop


This is depend what you are interested and how many time do you have. One hour, few hour or maybe one day.


I'm never sure, but I have to assume the minimum and hope for the best since I'm there to help my hosts. Future visits are likely. I'm arriving in Warsaw so for the first visit, I ask for a first choice: 1. Easy access, fast, close, most convenient for my hosts and a second choice for if we find ourselves with a little more time on our hands (since I have some time before this trip, if pre-arrangement is involved, any tips you have are welcomed because I'll forward to my hosts and they can tell me if they are do-able or not and handle any language issues, etc.)

I'm not sure where we might be going outside of Warsaw, but I expect to be doing some traveling by car. As I find out more, maybe I can PM or email you?

Thanks for your help...I'm really looking forward to this trip (first time to Poland)

D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor Museums/Displays in Poland?

Polar, I've found these photos on Detektorweb, it says that the pics were taken in Poland, in a private collection. Do you have further information about it?
-Stug III Ausf G? remains:


-Here we can see the same StuG III and a Panzer II turret :


Thanks

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Polar
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 96
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor Museums/Displays in Poland?

- Doug_Kibbey
- Polar
So, for a fellow on primarily a medical business trip with a limited schedule, what is the best "investment of time" for someone who might only get to make ONE stop


This is depend what you are interested and how many time do you have. One hour, few hour or maybe one day.


I'm never sure, but I have to assume the minimum and hope for the best since I'm there to help my hosts. Future visits are likely. I'm arriving in Warsaw so for the first visit, I ask for a first choice: 1. Easy access, fast, close, most convenient for my hosts and a second choice for if we find ourselves with a little more time on our hands (since I have some time before this trip, if pre-arrangement is involved, any tips you have are welcomed because I'll forward to my hosts and they can tell me if they are do-able or not and handle any language issues, etc.)

I'm not sure where we might be going outside of Warsaw, but I expect to be doing some traveling by car. As I find out more, maybe I can PM or email you?

Thanks for your help...I'm really looking forward to this trip (first time to Poland)

D.


If you will be have little time and you will be in Center Warsaw the best chose is Main Bulding Polish Army Museum at AL Jerozolimskie street.

If you will be have more time ( abot 3-4 hour) the best chose is Museum of Polish Military Technik Fort IX Czerniakowski ul.Powsinska 13 (street) and try to see Main Bulding Polish Army Museum at AL Jerozolimskie street.
Of coure you can Pm or email to me. Cool

the_shadock
I don't know where is this StuG but I try find info about it. Did you could direct link to article about this stug on detektorweb?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor Museums/Displays in Poland?

Polar, here is the direct link :

http://www.detektorweb.cz/index.4me?s=show&i=3606&mm=1&vd=1

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Polar
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 96
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor Museums/Displays in Poland?

Small update
All pic was doing on Main Bulding Polish Army Museum in Warsaw

BRDM-1

BRDM-2

Sd.Kfz. 251/1 Ausf.D

Kubus

all photos © by Polar (me)
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Polar
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 96
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor Museums/Displays in Poland?

the_shadock
This StuG could be the part collection of Keszycki brothers.
On this link you can find few poor pic this collection.
www.odkrywca.pl/pokaz_...?id=334145
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Polar
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 96
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:49 am
Post subject: Re: Armor Museums/Displays in Poland?

Kolobrzeg

Military Museum
ul. Emilii Gierczak 5. (street)
open:
september - may
monday - close
tuesday 10:00 - 16:00 only outdoor -free enter
Wensday - Sunday 10:00 - 16:00 without
Thursday 11:00 - 17:00

june - august
monday - Sunday - 09:30 - 17:00
Wensday -09:30 -12:00
Wensday -12:00 - 18:00 only outdoor -free enter







T-34/76 - tactical number 102

T-34/85 - tactical number 1000

IS-2 - tactical number 410

ISU-122 - tactical number 009

ISU-152 tactical number 005

Su-57 (T48) - tactical number 426

Su-76 - tactical number 158

ASU-85 - tactical number 9044

BTR-40

BTR-152

BRDM-1

R-11M SCUD

other exponat

all photos © by "Muzeum Oreza Polskiego" in Kolobrzeg
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 6
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum