±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 428
Total: 428
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Home
04: Home
05: Photo Gallery
06: Home
07: Home
08: Home
09: Your Account
10: Home
11: Home
12: Home
13: News Archive
14: Member Screenshots
15: Photo Gallery
16: Member Screenshots
17: Downloads
18: Downloads
19: Home
20: Home
21: Photo Gallery
22: Home
23: Your Account
24: Home
25: Home
26: Home
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: News
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Member Screenshots
40: Home
41: Home
42: Photo Gallery
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Photo Gallery
46: Home
47: Home
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Member Screenshots
52: Home
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Photo Gallery
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Home
60: Home
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Home
65: Your Account
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Home
70: Home
71: Home
72: Home
73: Your Account
74: Home
75: Home
76: Home
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Downloads
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Home
83: Home
84: Home
85: Community Forums
86: Home
87: Member Screenshots
88: Community Forums
89: Home
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Home
96: Photo Gallery
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Home
103: Home
104: Home
105: Home
106: Home
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Home
110: Community Forums
111: Home
112: Home
113: Home
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Photo Gallery
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Member Screenshots
123: Home
124: Home
125: Home
126: Home
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Home
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Home
134: Downloads
135: News Archive
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Home
140: Community Forums
141: Downloads
142: Your Account
143: Community Forums
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Your Account
154: Home
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: News Archive
160: Home
161: Home
162: Home
163: Home
164: Home
165: Home
166: Home
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Home
171: Member Screenshots
172: Photo Gallery
173: Photo Gallery
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Photo Gallery
177: Home
178: Home
179: Photo Gallery
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Photo Gallery
188: Home
189: Home
190: Home
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Your Account
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Home
197: Home
198: Home
199: Member Screenshots
200: Downloads
201: Home
202: Home
203: Home
204: Downloads
205: Home
206: Photo Gallery
207: Home
208: Home
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Downloads
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Home
215: Home
216: Home
217: Home
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Member Screenshots
222: Home
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: Home
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Home
233: Home
234: Home
235: Home
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Home
240: Home
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Home
244: Home
245: Home
246: Photo Gallery
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Downloads
250: Community Forums
251: Home
252: Home
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Photo Gallery
256: Community Forums
257: Member Screenshots
258: Home
259: Downloads
260: Member Screenshots
261: Home
262: Member Screenshots
263: Home
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Home
268: Photo Gallery
269: Downloads
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: Home
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: News Archive
280: Downloads
281: Community Forums
282: Home
283: Home
284: Downloads
285: Home
286: Photo Gallery
287: Community Forums
288: Home
289: Home
290: Home
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Home
296: Community Forums
297: Home
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Home
301: Home
302: Downloads
303: Home
304: Home
305: Home
306: Photo Gallery
307: Photo Gallery
308: Home
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Downloads
315: Community Forums
316: Home
317: Community Forums
318: Home
319: Downloads
320: Statistics
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: News Archive
327: Home
328: Home
329: Home
330: Home
331: Home
332: Photo Gallery
333: Home
334: Community Forums
335: Home
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Member Screenshots
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Home
344: Photo Gallery
345: Community Forums
346: Home
347: Member Screenshots
348: Home
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Home
352: Home
353: Home
354: Photo Gallery
355: Home
356: Home
357: Community Forums
358: Home
359: Home
360: Home
361: Member Screenshots
362: Downloads
363: Photo Gallery
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: News Archive
369: Home
370: Home
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Home
376: Home
377: Downloads
378: Downloads
379: Community Forums
380: Home
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Home
384: Home
385: Home
386: Photo Gallery
387: Home
388: Downloads
389: Home
390: Community Forums
391: Home
392: Community Forums
393: Home
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Home
397: Photo Gallery
398: Downloads
399: Home
400: Downloads
401: Photo Gallery
402: Home
403: Community Forums
404: Home
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Downloads
409: News
410: Home
411: Home
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Home
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Home
418: Downloads
419: News Archive
420: Community Forums
421: Treasury
422: Community Forums
423: News Archive
424: Community Forums
425: Home
426: Home
427: Member Screenshots
428: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:57 pm
Post subject: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

This was recently posted in the "souvenirs" section of my favorite website and homepage, the VHPAmuseum. I can't identify the type of tank from this, but maybe someone here can and we can amplify the caption, which I could have done with reliable input. The image can be accessed here:

(I'm not going to hotlink it and ask that you don't and steal John's bandwidth, he's a good friend and hosts my stuff over there...just click the link to see it)

www.vhpamuseum.org/sou...tuff-6.jpg

The caption reads:

"This data plate, No. 701C42, was taken from a Chinese tank destroyed ne ar Hue, Vietnam during the Spring Offensive of 1972. This tank was destroyed by a helicopter launched TOW missile. I think it was the 2nd combat aerial TOW team which was attached to the 11th combat aviation group out of DaNang. I believe they stayed with a cav unit, on Tan Mi island or with a cav unit in Phu Bai, maybe the 9th or 17th cav. These TOW ships were not AH1G COBRAS they were Hueys, possibly C models or D models and flew with a COBRA team for cover. "

As I'd been stationed and worked that area until January '72 when I left to join Roy with the 2/11th, I missed that bit of excitement by about 60-90 days, which is just as well since we'd likely have been over-run in that location. Rolling Eyes

Any thoughts on what type this was? Whose kanji is good enough to read this?

I'm pretty sure the unit involved wasn't 17th Cav as I was 17th Cav and know what we operated and TOW wasn't amongst our stuff, even on C Troop birds over at Phu Bai where we all were by early '72...and all 17th Cav had gone by the time of this action I feel sure.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Jens_O_Mehner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 511
Location: Giessen, Germany
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

Well,

the after-action reports only mention M41s (captured examples) and T-54s as the types of tanks killed by the aerial TOW teams (flying UH-1Bs), so it's probably the latter, although I can't remember if the Chinese still built straight T-54s at that time or if those were already Type 59s. The 7.6 visible on the data plate had me leaning towards a PT-76, but those are not among the victims listed in the reports. Cool

Cheers,

Jens O.

furiously trying to get his scanner back online
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

Thanks, Jens...
What we had remaining in-country was one troop of 17th Cav (OH-6's, UH-1D's and AH-1G Cobras) with some ancillary units assigned, which included A Bty, 4/77th ARA (all Cobra's), none with TOW capacity, I believe. I'm inclined to think this was flying out of Da Nang, but I'll do some checking around.

I have some Chinese contacts and other who read the more fundamental type of kanji typical of the PRC, so I'll see if that can shed some light on this when I get a chance.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

- Jens_O_Mehner
Well,

the after-action reports only mention M41s (captured examples) and T-54s as the types of tanks killed by the aerial TOW teams (flying UH-1Bs), so it's probably the latter, although I can't remember if the Chinese still built straight T-54s at that time or if those were already Type 59s. The 7.6 visible on the data plate had me leaning towards a PT-76, but those are not among the victims listed in the reports. Cool


It looks like a data plate for a Type 60.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************


Last edited by JimWeb on Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

Looking into this, it would seem likely to have been May '72 or later, as the earliest time I can find documented for TOW use is out of Pleiku with the 1st and 2nd TOW Detachments (the "2nd combat aerial TOW team") using the BGM-71's on UH-1B models. Elements of the 2nd may have come north to support a rapidly deteriorating situation. All Cobra engagements that involved tanks used either HEAT or HEDP rockets, not TOW (just as suggested by the original caption).

Looks like the 2nd Tow Detachment may have been kept "on the move" by a fluid situation and the advance of NVA armor down QL-1.

I have my issues of Army Aviation Digest with the serialized "Armed Helicopter Story", but I think that stops just as this was occuring...ending about New Year's '72...talk about "news in the making"....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

Ok if i have someone translate that label?
the other site i go to people speak everything, someone might translate it
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

- armyjunk2
Ok if i have someone translate that label?
the other site i go to people speak everything, someone might translate it


By all means, take a shot!
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:08 am
Post subject:

I DELETED THIS


Last edited by armyjunk2 on Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:13 am
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

Let's hope their Chinese is better than their Japanese.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:17 am
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

I have a medical/business associate from PRC I can email it to...he was even at our company today, but it was before I had seen this. I'll send it to him tomorrow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
famo
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:08 am
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

I can try it,but wait until i look for some glossary.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:48 am
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

My mans says:

"It looks like from a Chinese manufacturer. But it is only an electronic fire control panel for machine gun and canon. It is an instruction how to operate the panel in order to fire the weapon. There is no indication of what type of tank."

He has offered a more complete tranlation, and I've taken him up on it...so we'll see. If anyone has something to offer, we'll surely listen. My contact did time in PRC armed forces, so I do tend to take his word for it.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
famo
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:05 am
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

Here is

DCC Control Panel
7.6 Kg

The manual valve in powercylinder should be rotate to Zd position
before turn on switcher CZ

Stabilizer
Switch On
Before turn the lever in the elevating mechanism to the lower position,wait
1.5~2 minutes after the switcher CZ turned on
Switch Off
Turn the lever in the elevating mechanism to the upper position(The handwheel should be rotataed until the lever turn to the upper position If the lever not in the upper position),then switch off the the switcher CZ

Electric Control Device
Use the switcher SP to turn on or turn off the device.The device should not
be turned on if no need

Fire the weapon
Machinegun trigger is in the handlever on the left corner of controlpanel. Gun trigger is in the handlever on the right corner of controlpanel.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:14 am
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

Excellent! Thank you!

Now, do we have any idea what vehicle that makes this?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

- Doug_Kibbey
Looking into this, it would seem likely to have been May '72 or later, as the earliest time I can find documented for TOW use is out of Pleiku with the 1st and 2nd TOW Detachments (the "2nd combat aerial TOW team") using the BGM-71's on UH-1B models. Elements of the 2nd may have come north to support a rapidly deteriorating situation. All Cobra engagements that involved tanks used either HEAT or HEDP rockets, not TOW (just as suggested by the original caption).

Looks like the 2nd Tow Detachment may have been kept "on the move" by a fluid situation and the advance of NVA armor down QL-1.

I have my issues of Army Aviation Digest with the serialized "Armed Helicopter Story", but I think that stops just as this was occuring...ending about New Year's '72...talk about "news in the making"....


In the fall of '72 I was at VMI. I remember us watching 'hot off the press' footage from the TOW test detachment in Vietnam of some of their missions. If I remember correctly the films were handcarried down by a member of the test evaluation team who narrated them and answered questions. (We used to get a fair number of such visits, often on a Friday when there was a home football game on Saturday. Ther would sometimes be 2 or 3 UH-1s sitting on the Parade Field or on a field behind the barracks where alumni had flown 'cross country hours' to come in. sometimes there would be a presentation of some kind for those who wanted to attend of some dog and pony show that was making the rounds in official circles) anyway I remember most of the missions being against abandoned South Vietnamese vehicles to keep them from falling into enemy hands. There were a few shots of missions against NVA armor and some against fixed positions. I remember a couple against machineguns that had been placed in Water towers (some of which were concrete and pretty 'hard') Yea we were young and gung ho and ate the stuff up.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum