±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 686
Total: 686
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Photo Gallery
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Downloads
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Downloads
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Photo Gallery
15: Home
16: Photo Gallery
17: Photo Gallery
18: Downloads
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Downloads
23: Photo Gallery
24: Photo Gallery
25: Home
26: Downloads
27: Photo Gallery
28: Member Screenshots
29: Photo Gallery
30: Photo Gallery
31: Home
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: Statistics
35: Home
36: Downloads
37: Member Screenshots
38: Home
39: Downloads
40: Photo Gallery
41: Photo Gallery
42: Downloads
43: Home
44: Photo Gallery
45: Member Screenshots
46: Downloads
47: Photo Gallery
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: Statistics
51: Photo Gallery
52: Photo Gallery
53: Home
54: Member Screenshots
55: Home
56: Photo Gallery
57: Downloads
58: Community Forums
59: Photo Gallery
60: Photo Gallery
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Photo Gallery
67: Downloads
68: Photo Gallery
69: Photo Gallery
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Home
73: Downloads
74: Member Screenshots
75: Photo Gallery
76: Home
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Photo Gallery
81: Photo Gallery
82: Photo Gallery
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Home
89: Home
90: News Archive
91: Member Screenshots
92: Photo Gallery
93: Photo Gallery
94: Home
95: Downloads
96: Photo Gallery
97: Community Forums
98: Member Screenshots
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Photo Gallery
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Member Screenshots
111: Home
112: Home
113: Photo Gallery
114: Photo Gallery
115: Photo Gallery
116: Home
117: Photo Gallery
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Downloads
122: Photo Gallery
123: News
124: Downloads
125: Photo Gallery
126: Photo Gallery
127: Community Forums
128: News Archive
129: Community Forums
130: Photo Gallery
131: Community Forums
132: Photo Gallery
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Member Screenshots
136: Home
137: Photo Gallery
138: Photo Gallery
139: Statistics
140: Home
141: Photo Gallery
142: Home
143: Photo Gallery
144: News Archive
145: Downloads
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Home
150: Member Screenshots
151: Downloads
152: Community Forums
153: Home
154: Home
155: Home
156: Member Screenshots
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Home
162: Home
163: Photo Gallery
164: Photo Gallery
165: Photo Gallery
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Home
173: Community Forums
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Statistics
177: Home
178: Home
179: Photo Gallery
180: Home
181: Statistics
182: Community Forums
183: Photo Gallery
184: Home
185: News Archive
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Photo Gallery
191: Statistics
192: Downloads
193: Home
194: Photo Gallery
195: Home
196: Home
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Statistics
200: Photo Gallery
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: News
206: Photo Gallery
207: Photo Gallery
208: Community Forums
209: Photo Gallery
210: Member Screenshots
211: Photo Gallery
212: Community Forums
213: Photo Gallery
214: Home
215: Home
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Photo Gallery
219: Downloads
220: Photo Gallery
221: Member Screenshots
222: Photo Gallery
223: Photo Gallery
224: Photo Gallery
225: Photo Gallery
226: Photo Gallery
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Member Screenshots
230: Photo Gallery
231: Photo Gallery
232: Home
233: Photo Gallery
234: Home
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Photo Gallery
238: Statistics
239: Downloads
240: Photo Gallery
241: Photo Gallery
242: Home
243: Downloads
244: Photo Gallery
245: Photo Gallery
246: Photo Gallery
247: Home
248: Downloads
249: Photo Gallery
250: Statistics
251: Photo Gallery
252: Photo Gallery
253: Photo Gallery
254: Community Forums
255: Photo Gallery
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: News Archive
262: Photo Gallery
263: Downloads
264: Home
265: Home
266: Photo Gallery
267: Member Screenshots
268: Photo Gallery
269: Home
270: Member Screenshots
271: Photo Gallery
272: Photo Gallery
273: Photo Gallery
274: Photo Gallery
275: Photo Gallery
276: Home
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Member Screenshots
280: News
281: News
282: Home
283: Member Screenshots
284: Home
285: Photo Gallery
286: Downloads
287: Home
288: Photo Gallery
289: Community Forums
290: Home
291: Statistics
292: Photo Gallery
293: Photo Gallery
294: Home
295: Community Forums
296: Photo Gallery
297: Photo Gallery
298: Photo Gallery
299: Photo Gallery
300: Photo Gallery
301: Community Forums
302: Photo Gallery
303: Photo Gallery
304: Photo Gallery
305: News
306: Photo Gallery
307: Photo Gallery
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Photo Gallery
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Photo Gallery
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Home
320: Community Forums
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Photo Gallery
325: Statistics
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Photo Gallery
329: Photo Gallery
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: Home
333: Home
334: Downloads
335: Home
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Member Screenshots
339: Photo Gallery
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Photo Gallery
343: Home
344: Photo Gallery
345: Home
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Home
350: Community Forums
351: Photo Gallery
352: Home
353: Member Screenshots
354: Photo Gallery
355: Photo Gallery
356: Community Forums
357: Photo Gallery
358: Home
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Home
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: Home
365: Member Screenshots
366: Photo Gallery
367: Community Forums
368: Home
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Photo Gallery
375: Home
376: Home
377: News Archive
378: Photo Gallery
379: Home
380: Home
381: Home
382: Member Screenshots
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Photo Gallery
386: Photo Gallery
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: News Archive
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Photo Gallery
393: News Archive
394: Home
395: Photo Gallery
396: Home
397: Member Screenshots
398: Community Forums
399: Downloads
400: Home
401: Photo Gallery
402: Home
403: Community Forums
404: Downloads
405: Statistics
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: Downloads
410: Community Forums
411: Downloads
412: Community Forums
413: Downloads
414: Downloads
415: Home
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Statistics
419: Home
420: Photo Gallery
421: Photo Gallery
422: Photo Gallery
423: Photo Gallery
424: Community Forums
425: Home
426: Photo Gallery
427: Downloads
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Photo Gallery
431: Community Forums
432: Downloads
433: Home
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Home
439: Home
440: Photo Gallery
441: Downloads
442: Downloads
443: Home
444: Photo Gallery
445: Home
446: Photo Gallery
447: Photo Gallery
448: Downloads
449: Community Forums
450: Downloads
451: Photo Gallery
452: Community Forums
453: Your Account
454: Downloads
455: Community Forums
456: Home
457: Home
458: Photo Gallery
459: Community Forums
460: Photo Gallery
461: Community Forums
462: Member Screenshots
463: Member Screenshots
464: Community Forums
465: Photo Gallery
466: Photo Gallery
467: Home
468: Home
469: Photo Gallery
470: Home
471: Community Forums
472: Photo Gallery
473: Home
474: Home
475: Downloads
476: Community Forums
477: Photo Gallery
478: Photo Gallery
479: Photo Gallery
480: Community Forums
481: Photo Gallery
482: Photo Gallery
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: News
486: Downloads
487: Photo Gallery
488: Photo Gallery
489: Community Forums
490: Photo Gallery
491: Member Screenshots
492: Home
493: Photo Gallery
494: Community Forums
495: Home
496: Photo Gallery
497: Photo Gallery
498: Photo Gallery
499: Downloads
500: Photo Gallery
501: Home
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Member Screenshots
505: Home
506: Community Forums
507: Photo Gallery
508: Photo Gallery
509: Community Forums
510: Member Screenshots
511: Community Forums
512: Photo Gallery
513: Photo Gallery
514: Photo Gallery
515: Member Screenshots
516: Downloads
517: Home
518: Member Screenshots
519: Home
520: Community Forums
521: News Archive
522: Member Screenshots
523: Home
524: News
525: Community Forums
526: Home
527: Home
528: Home
529: Home
530: Home
531: Home
532: Photo Gallery
533: Community Forums
534: Home
535: Photo Gallery
536: Statistics
537: Home
538: Home
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Photo Gallery
544: Home
545: Home
546: Photo Gallery
547: Photo Gallery
548: Member Screenshots
549: Photo Gallery
550: Home
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Member Screenshots
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Photo Gallery
557: Photo Gallery
558: Home
559: Statistics
560: Home
561: Downloads
562: Statistics
563: Photo Gallery
564: Downloads
565: Home
566: Photo Gallery
567: Photo Gallery
568: Photo Gallery
569: Home
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Downloads
573: Community Forums
574: Photo Gallery
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: News Archive
578: Community Forums
579: Photo Gallery
580: Photo Gallery
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Home
584: Community Forums
585: Member Screenshots
586: Community Forums
587: Photo Gallery
588: Community Forums
589: Photo Gallery
590: Statistics
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Photo Gallery
594: News
595: Photo Gallery
596: Member Screenshots
597: Community Forums
598: Home
599: Home
600: Photo Gallery
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Downloads
606: Home
607: Home
608: Community Forums
609: Home
610: Photo Gallery
611: Photo Gallery
612: Photo Gallery
613: Photo Gallery
614: Member Screenshots
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Photo Gallery
618: Community Forums
619: Photo Gallery
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Downloads
624: Photo Gallery
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Home
628: Community Forums
629: Home
630: Photo Gallery
631: Home
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Home
636: Home
637: Home
638: Photo Gallery
639: Photo Gallery
640: Home
641: Home
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Home
646: Home
647: Community Forums
648: News Archive
649: Community Forums
650: Your Account
651: Photo Gallery
652: Home
653: Community Forums
654: Downloads
655: Home
656: Member Screenshots
657: Photo Gallery
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Photo Gallery
661: Home
662: News Archive
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Photo Gallery
668: Home
669: Home
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Member Screenshots
674: Home
675: Home
676: Member Screenshots
677: Photo Gallery
678: Home
679: Home
680: Community Forums
681: Member Screenshots
682: Contact
683: Home
684: Home
685: Photo Gallery
686: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Thermal Shrouds Question
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:20 am
Post subject: Thermal Shrouds Question

Exactly what are main gun thermal shrouds for? I was told that it's so the heat from the gun tube does not interfere with the thermal sights but I think shrouds were around before thermal sites.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

I was told by a tanker friend that it was to keep the barrel as temperature stable as possible to enhance accuracy. don't know if he was correct or not

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Piney,

I've heard that too. Was told that the sun beating down on the tube makes it hotter on top than on bottom. Shroud makes the temp even all the way around.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2069
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Hi 'Weed, Jeff.
Was told that the sun beating down on the tube makes it hotter on top than on bottom. Shroud makes the temp even all the way around.


Yes, the shroud allows the tube to maintain a relative even temperature all around thus causing the metal to expand and contract evenly. This reduces boresight loss by tube bending and increases accuracy from round to round. Prior to thermal shrouds, we would boresight first thing in the morning and then re boresight at least 2 to 3 more times during the day based on how warm it was and how hard the sun beat on us. During firing the tube also heats up and the shroud reduces the bending of the tube by about 50% IAW the "Book". One dirty trick on the A1's was to pour water over or urinate on another crews tube without them looking during gunnery so they would loose their boresight Twisted Evil . The Master Gunner School actually demonstrated this phenomena by pouring water down the tube from the breech after firing a few rounds. Then they do an MRS update (That little device on the end of the M1 Tubes) and fire another to demostrate that it will correct for boresight loss. The longer a gun tube is, the more important the shroud becomes. Very important for long range gunnery.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

The thermal shroud also contains the heat around the gun tube. This way the thermal radiation (heat) eminating from the gun tube does not distort the image on the thermal sight. This only effects tanks with thermal sights though.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:00 am
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Hi Mark! Hi Folks!

I remember prior to the 1973 Middle East War, there was a chart that listed the max effective range of US Army Anti-tank weapons.

While the TOW was listed as 3,000 meters, the 105mm on our M60 MBTs was only listed as effective out to 1,200 meters. One thing that always confuzed me for the longest time was that the M60 tank was capable of 4,400 meters when it rolled out of the factory doors.

That was also during the time when there was a lot of talk about ATGMs being better than MBTs because they could hit targets at greater ranges than a tank and cost less.

When the 'lessons learned' came out after the 1973 war, the US Army was very surpised that IDF tankers had a very high number of hits on targets at greater than 1,200 meters with 105mm cannon.

A number of things where changed with US MBTs and tanker training. The three things I remember most was the AOS was installed on the M60s, the thermal shround was added (something the Brits had been doing ever sense they fielded the Chieftain) and the Master Gunner Program was started.

Some very old history, as I remember it.
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:20 am
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

- Roy_A_Lingle

A number of things where changed with US MBTs and tanker training. The three things I remember most was the AOS was installed on the M60s, the thermal shround was added (something the Brits had been doing ever sense they fielded the Chieftain) and the Master Gunner Program was started.


Excuse me we had them on Centurions as well!

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:30 am
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Hi Jim! Hi Folks!

- JimWeb
- Roy_A_Lingle

....something the Brits had been doing ever sense they fielded the Chieftain.....


Excuse me we had them on Centurions as well!

Cool


If I remember right, the British Chieftain was the FIRST MBT to use thermal shrouds. In time just about everyone who used a 105mm gun tube based on the L7 design added shrouds. I remember a lot of Centurion photos with tubes that only had paint on them.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:51 am
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Jim! Hi Folks!

- JimWeb
- Roy_A_Lingle

....something the Brits had been doing ever sense they fielded the Chieftain.....


Excuse me we had them on Centurions as well!

Cool


If I remember right, the British Chieftain was the FIRST MBT to use thermal shrouds. In time just about everyone who used a 105mm gun tube based on the L7 design added shrouds. I remember a lot of Centurion photos with tubes that only had paint on them.

Sgt, Scouts Out!



And I can remember a lot of M60 tubes without them... BUT the thermal jacket was first issued on the Centurion Mk 10 - four years before Chieftain entered service. All marks after that had them issued but not neccessarily fitted.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2069
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Hi Roy, Jim,
What's interesting is the Thermal shroud did not get fielded with US Tanks until the M60A3 came around. Kinda funny since everyone else had them long before. I think it had a lot to do with the whole package upgrade to A3. Putting a shroud on an A1 would help you with maintaining your boresight but besides that not much else. I can understand why you would need one on the Cheiftain, just look at the length of the tube.
Maximum effective range on the A1's was officially 1800 meters. The FCS could make firing solutions out to 4400 but to be able to consistently hit (98% excluding Gunner error) 1800 was it. The A3 would also calculate solutions out to 4400 but it's MAX was 3000 meters with the same gun. Amazing what a modern FCS can do. Some of the things it compensated for that the A1 didn't were Air Density (Elevation and Air Temp), Crosswind, Cant, Ammo Temp, and a consistent accurate Rangefinder good for+/- 5 meters.
About the Master Gunner Program, Yes, it started to make a big difference. But then you had to get larger CVC helmets when their heads swelled up Mr. Green

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Didn't i read somewhere that Merkava has (had) a bit of a problem in regard to thermal imaging distortion. Basically, you're out in the hot desert in a big steel box with the engine compartment between you an the target. Those 'heat ripples' off the hot engine deck make the setup less than ideal.

okay, I may be all wet on this. This may be a problem recounted from the '82 Lebanon war (25 years ago!) for all I know!
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 5:53 am
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Hi Mike! Hi Folks!

- mike_Duplessis
Didn't i read somewhere that Merkava has (had) a bit of a problem in regard to thermal imaging distortion. Basically, you're out in the hot desert in a big steel box with the engine compartment between you an the target. Those 'heat ripples' off the hot engine deck make the setup less than ideal.


I don't know about the Merkava, but that sounds possible to me. In my current job, one of things I do is use thermal cameras. When the cameras were new, heat from near by street lights didn't bother them. But as the cameras aged, nearby heat sources start interfearing with them and the picture quality goes to pot when the camera is pointed in the direction of a street light.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:32 am
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Hi Jim! Hi Folks!

- JimWeb

....the thermal jacket was first issued on the Centurion Mk 10 - four years before Chieftain entered service.
Cool


I didn't know that, possible because I am not British, I just remember the Chieftain as the first tank I ever saw with thermal shrouds and always wondered why the US didn't also use them.

Thanks for the update Jim.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6258
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 11:21 am
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

...and to add to the list of mysteries like "Green Tigers in Africa" and "Pink Panthers in Vietnam" there's always the......









...wait for it......








"Thermal Shroud of Turin"


(Thank ya' very much....)

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum