±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 718
Total: 718
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Home
06: Photo Gallery
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Downloads
12: Photo Gallery
13: Home
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Photo Gallery
25: Community Forums
26: Photo Gallery
27: Home
28: Photo Gallery
29: Home
30: Photo Gallery
31: Home
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Home
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Photo Gallery
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: Photo Gallery
49: Photo Gallery
50: Photo Gallery
51: Home
52: Photo Gallery
53: Home
54: Photo Gallery
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Home
60: Photo Gallery
61: Photo Gallery
62: Home
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Home
67: Home
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Home
74: Home
75: Home
76: Member Screenshots
77: Home
78: Home
79: Home
80: Home
81: Member Screenshots
82: Home
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Home
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Community Forums
90: Search
91: Home
92: Member Screenshots
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Downloads
96: News Archive
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Photo Gallery
100: Downloads
101: Community Forums
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: News
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Member Screenshots
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Photo Gallery
118: Home
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Downloads
123: Member Screenshots
124: Member Screenshots
125: Home
126: Statistics
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: Photo Gallery
133: Community Forums
134: Statistics
135: Photo Gallery
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Member Screenshots
140: Community Forums
141: Home
142: Photo Gallery
143: Community Forums
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Photo Gallery
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: News Archive
156: Photo Gallery
157: Home
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Photo Gallery
161: Photo Gallery
162: Home
163: Downloads
164: Photo Gallery
165: Downloads
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Home
169: Home
170: Home
171: Member Screenshots
172: Photo Gallery
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Member Screenshots
177: Photo Gallery
178: Photo Gallery
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Home
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Community Forums
188: Photo Gallery
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Photo Gallery
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Home
201: Home
202: Member Screenshots
203: Photo Gallery
204: Home
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Home
208: News
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Home
212: Photo Gallery
213: Photo Gallery
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: Member Screenshots
219: Home
220: Home
221: Home
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Downloads
225: Home
226: Photo Gallery
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Home
230: Home
231: Photo Gallery
232: Home
233: Home
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Photo Gallery
241: Home
242: Photo Gallery
243: Home
244: Community Forums
245: Home
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Photo Gallery
250: Community Forums
251: Downloads
252: Home
253: Member Screenshots
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Your Account
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Photo Gallery
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Member Screenshots
267: Photo Gallery
268: Photo Gallery
269: Community Forums
270: Downloads
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Member Screenshots
276: Statistics
277: Member Screenshots
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Statistics
281: Community Forums
282: Photo Gallery
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Downloads
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Home
289: Home
290: Home
291: Member Screenshots
292: Photo Gallery
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Photo Gallery
300: Home
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Community Forums
305: Photo Gallery
306: Community Forums
307: Photo Gallery
308: Home
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Downloads
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Photo Gallery
315: Member Screenshots
316: Photo Gallery
317: Community Forums
318: Home
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Downloads
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Member Screenshots
328: Photo Gallery
329: Home
330: Home
331: News Archive
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Home
335: Community Forums
336: Home
337: Home
338: Home
339: Home
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Photo Gallery
351: Photo Gallery
352: Community Forums
353: Home
354: Community Forums
355: Photo Gallery
356: Community Forums
357: Photo Gallery
358: Downloads
359: Downloads
360: Community Forums
361: Member Screenshots
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Photo Gallery
365: Home
366: Home
367: Statistics
368: Home
369: Home
370: Photo Gallery
371: Home
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Treasury
375: Photo Gallery
376: Home
377: Photo Gallery
378: Home
379: Home
380: Photo Gallery
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Home
384: Home
385: Home
386: Community Forums
387: Photo Gallery
388: Community Forums
389: Home
390: Photo Gallery
391: Community Forums
392: Home
393: Photo Gallery
394: Home
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Photo Gallery
398: Home
399: Community Forums
400: Photo Gallery
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Home
404: Home
405: Home
406: Home
407: Statistics
408: Member Screenshots
409: Home
410: Community Forums
411: Member Screenshots
412: Home
413: Home
414: Photo Gallery
415: Home
416: Member Screenshots
417: Statistics
418: Home
419: Community Forums
420: Photo Gallery
421: Home
422: Member Screenshots
423: Community Forums
424: Home
425: Home
426: Home
427: Home
428: Community Forums
429: Home
430: Home
431: News Archive
432: Home
433: News Archive
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Photo Gallery
440: Community Forums
441: Home
442: Member Screenshots
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Home
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Home
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Home
454: Home
455: Home
456: Home
457: Community Forums
458: Home
459: Home
460: Home
461: Community Forums
462: Home
463: Home
464: Home
465: Home
466: Community Forums
467: Home
468: Home
469: Home
470: Community Forums
471: Photo Gallery
472: Member Screenshots
473: Home
474: Home
475: Home
476: Your Account
477: Home
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Downloads
481: Home
482: Home
483: Home
484: Community Forums
485: Home
486: Member Screenshots
487: Photo Gallery
488: Photo Gallery
489: Member Screenshots
490: Home
491: Home
492: Member Screenshots
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Photo Gallery
497: Community Forums
498: Home
499: Home
500: Community Forums
501: Home
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Photo Gallery
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Photo Gallery
513: Home
514: Community Forums
515: Member Screenshots
516: Community Forums
517: Home
518: Photo Gallery
519: Member Screenshots
520: Downloads
521: Community Forums
522: Photo Gallery
523: Home
524: Home
525: Photo Gallery
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Home
530: Photo Gallery
531: Home
532: Photo Gallery
533: Home
534: Photo Gallery
535: Home
536: Photo Gallery
537: Community Forums
538: Photo Gallery
539: Community Forums
540: Home
541: Community Forums
542: Photo Gallery
543: Downloads
544: Community Forums
545: Home
546: Downloads
547: Home
548: News Archive
549: Home
550: Home
551: Home
552: Community Forums
553: Photo Gallery
554: Community Forums
555: Photo Gallery
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Downloads
560: Member Screenshots
561: Community Forums
562: Photo Gallery
563: Community Forums
564: Photo Gallery
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Downloads
569: Community Forums
570: Photo Gallery
571: Photo Gallery
572: Downloads
573: Home
574: Community Forums
575: Photo Gallery
576: Home
577: Community Forums
578: Photo Gallery
579: Home
580: Member Screenshots
581: Home
582: Community Forums
583: Photo Gallery
584: Home
585: Home
586: Home
587: Statistics
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Home
593: Home
594: Home
595: Home
596: Community Forums
597: Home
598: Community Forums
599: Photo Gallery
600: Home
601: Home
602: Home
603: Photo Gallery
604: Home
605: Photo Gallery
606: Home
607: Home
608: Home
609: Community Forums
610: Home
611: Home
612: Home
613: Home
614: Home
615: Home
616: Home
617: Member Screenshots
618: Community Forums
619: Photo Gallery
620: Community Forums
621: Member Screenshots
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Downloads
628: Community Forums
629: Photo Gallery
630: Photo Gallery
631: Home
632: Home
633: Community Forums
634: Photo Gallery
635: Community Forums
636: Home
637: Community Forums
638: Home
639: Home
640: Home
641: Community Forums
642: Home
643: Home
644: Home
645: Community Forums
646: Home
647: Home
648: Home
649: Home
650: Home
651: Photo Gallery
652: Home
653: Home
654: Community Forums
655: Home
656: Home
657: Home
658: Member Screenshots
659: Member Screenshots
660: Home
661: Home
662: Community Forums
663: Home
664: Community Forums
665: Photo Gallery
666: Community Forums
667: Downloads
668: Photo Gallery
669: Home
670: Home
671: Community Forums
672: Home
673: Member Screenshots
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Downloads
679: Community Forums
680: Photo Gallery
681: Community Forums
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Home
690: Home
691: Home
692: Home
693: Home
694: Photo Gallery
695: Photo Gallery
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Home
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Home
704: Community Forums
705: Member Screenshots
706: Home
707: Community Forums
708: Home
709: Community Forums
710: Community Forums
711: Photo Gallery
712: Member Screenshots
713: Home
714: News Archive
715: Home
716: Home
717: Home
718: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Thermal Shrouds Question
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:20 am
Post subject: Thermal Shrouds Question

Exactly what are main gun thermal shrouds for? I was told that it's so the heat from the gun tube does not interfere with the thermal sights but I think shrouds were around before thermal sites.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

I was told by a tanker friend that it was to keep the barrel as temperature stable as possible to enhance accuracy. don't know if he was correct or not

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Piney,

I've heard that too. Was told that the sun beating down on the tube makes it hotter on top than on bottom. Shroud makes the temp even all the way around.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2069
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Hi 'Weed, Jeff.
Was told that the sun beating down on the tube makes it hotter on top than on bottom. Shroud makes the temp even all the way around.


Yes, the shroud allows the tube to maintain a relative even temperature all around thus causing the metal to expand and contract evenly. This reduces boresight loss by tube bending and increases accuracy from round to round. Prior to thermal shrouds, we would boresight first thing in the morning and then re boresight at least 2 to 3 more times during the day based on how warm it was and how hard the sun beat on us. During firing the tube also heats up and the shroud reduces the bending of the tube by about 50% IAW the "Book". One dirty trick on the A1's was to pour water over or urinate on another crews tube without them looking during gunnery so they would loose their boresight Twisted Evil . The Master Gunner School actually demonstrated this phenomena by pouring water down the tube from the breech after firing a few rounds. Then they do an MRS update (That little device on the end of the M1 Tubes) and fire another to demostrate that it will correct for boresight loss. The longer a gun tube is, the more important the shroud becomes. Very important for long range gunnery.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

The thermal shroud also contains the heat around the gun tube. This way the thermal radiation (heat) eminating from the gun tube does not distort the image on the thermal sight. This only effects tanks with thermal sights though.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:00 am
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Hi Mark! Hi Folks!

I remember prior to the 1973 Middle East War, there was a chart that listed the max effective range of US Army Anti-tank weapons.

While the TOW was listed as 3,000 meters, the 105mm on our M60 MBTs was only listed as effective out to 1,200 meters. One thing that always confuzed me for the longest time was that the M60 tank was capable of 4,400 meters when it rolled out of the factory doors.

That was also during the time when there was a lot of talk about ATGMs being better than MBTs because they could hit targets at greater ranges than a tank and cost less.

When the 'lessons learned' came out after the 1973 war, the US Army was very surpised that IDF tankers had a very high number of hits on targets at greater than 1,200 meters with 105mm cannon.

A number of things where changed with US MBTs and tanker training. The three things I remember most was the AOS was installed on the M60s, the thermal shround was added (something the Brits had been doing ever sense they fielded the Chieftain) and the Master Gunner Program was started.

Some very old history, as I remember it.
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:20 am
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

- Roy_A_Lingle

A number of things where changed with US MBTs and tanker training. The three things I remember most was the AOS was installed on the M60s, the thermal shround was added (something the Brits had been doing ever sense they fielded the Chieftain) and the Master Gunner Program was started.


Excuse me we had them on Centurions as well!

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:30 am
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Hi Jim! Hi Folks!

- JimWeb
- Roy_A_Lingle

....something the Brits had been doing ever sense they fielded the Chieftain.....


Excuse me we had them on Centurions as well!

Cool


If I remember right, the British Chieftain was the FIRST MBT to use thermal shrouds. In time just about everyone who used a 105mm gun tube based on the L7 design added shrouds. I remember a lot of Centurion photos with tubes that only had paint on them.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:51 am
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Jim! Hi Folks!

- JimWeb
- Roy_A_Lingle

....something the Brits had been doing ever sense they fielded the Chieftain.....


Excuse me we had them on Centurions as well!

Cool


If I remember right, the British Chieftain was the FIRST MBT to use thermal shrouds. In time just about everyone who used a 105mm gun tube based on the L7 design added shrouds. I remember a lot of Centurion photos with tubes that only had paint on them.

Sgt, Scouts Out!



And I can remember a lot of M60 tubes without them... BUT the thermal jacket was first issued on the Centurion Mk 10 - four years before Chieftain entered service. All marks after that had them issued but not neccessarily fitted.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2069
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Hi Roy, Jim,
What's interesting is the Thermal shroud did not get fielded with US Tanks until the M60A3 came around. Kinda funny since everyone else had them long before. I think it had a lot to do with the whole package upgrade to A3. Putting a shroud on an A1 would help you with maintaining your boresight but besides that not much else. I can understand why you would need one on the Cheiftain, just look at the length of the tube.
Maximum effective range on the A1's was officially 1800 meters. The FCS could make firing solutions out to 4400 but to be able to consistently hit (98% excluding Gunner error) 1800 was it. The A3 would also calculate solutions out to 4400 but it's MAX was 3000 meters with the same gun. Amazing what a modern FCS can do. Some of the things it compensated for that the A1 didn't were Air Density (Elevation and Air Temp), Crosswind, Cant, Ammo Temp, and a consistent accurate Rangefinder good for+/- 5 meters.
About the Master Gunner Program, Yes, it started to make a big difference. But then you had to get larger CVC helmets when their heads swelled up Mr. Green

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Didn't i read somewhere that Merkava has (had) a bit of a problem in regard to thermal imaging distortion. Basically, you're out in the hot desert in a big steel box with the engine compartment between you an the target. Those 'heat ripples' off the hot engine deck make the setup less than ideal.

okay, I may be all wet on this. This may be a problem recounted from the '82 Lebanon war (25 years ago!) for all I know!
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 5:53 am
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Hi Mike! Hi Folks!

- mike_Duplessis
Didn't i read somewhere that Merkava has (had) a bit of a problem in regard to thermal imaging distortion. Basically, you're out in the hot desert in a big steel box with the engine compartment between you an the target. Those 'heat ripples' off the hot engine deck make the setup less than ideal.


I don't know about the Merkava, but that sounds possible to me. In my current job, one of things I do is use thermal cameras. When the cameras were new, heat from near by street lights didn't bother them. But as the cameras aged, nearby heat sources start interfearing with them and the picture quality goes to pot when the camera is pointed in the direction of a street light.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:32 am
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

Hi Jim! Hi Folks!

- JimWeb

....the thermal jacket was first issued on the Centurion Mk 10 - four years before Chieftain entered service.
Cool


I didn't know that, possible because I am not British, I just remember the Chieftain as the first tank I ever saw with thermal shrouds and always wondered why the US didn't also use them.

Thanks for the update Jim.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6258
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 11:21 am
Post subject: Re: Thermal Shrouds Question

...and to add to the list of mysteries like "Green Tigers in Africa" and "Pink Panthers in Vietnam" there's always the......









...wait for it......








"Thermal Shroud of Turin"


(Thank ya' very much....)

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum