±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 472
Total: 472
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Home
06: Community Forums
07: Member Screenshots
08: Home
09: News Archive
10: Home
11: Home
12: Home
13: Home
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Home
18: Member Screenshots
19: Home
20: Home
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Member Screenshots
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Downloads
34: Home
35: Downloads
36: Home
37: Home
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Your Account
44: Photo Gallery
45: Home
46: Community Forums
47: Downloads
48: Home
49: Photo Gallery
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Downloads
54: Home
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Photo Gallery
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: News Archive
63: Community Forums
64: Home
65: Community Forums
66: Photo Gallery
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Home
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Photo Gallery
74: Photo Gallery
75: Photo Gallery
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Home
80: Home
81: Home
82: Home
83: Community Forums
84: Home
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Photo Gallery
88: Home
89: Photo Gallery
90: Photo Gallery
91: News Archive
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Downloads
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Photo Gallery
100: Community Forums
101: Downloads
102: Community Forums
103: Home
104: Photo Gallery
105: Photo Gallery
106: Home
107: Photo Gallery
108: Home
109: Home
110: Photo Gallery
111: Photo Gallery
112: Photo Gallery
113: Home
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Member Screenshots
118: Photo Gallery
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Home
128: Photo Gallery
129: Photo Gallery
130: Photo Gallery
131: Home
132: Home
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Downloads
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Photo Gallery
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Downloads
148: Downloads
149: Photo Gallery
150: Home
151: Home
152: Photo Gallery
153: Home
154: Photo Gallery
155: Community Forums
156: Downloads
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Member Screenshots
164: Community Forums
165: Photo Gallery
166: Home
167: Photo Gallery
168: Downloads
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Home
172: Member Screenshots
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: News Archive
176: Home
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Home
182: Member Screenshots
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Photo Gallery
190: Home
191: Member Screenshots
192: Home
193: Home
194: Photo Gallery
195: Home
196: Downloads
197: Home
198: Photo Gallery
199: Community Forums
200: Photo Gallery
201: Home
202: Home
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Photo Gallery
208: Home
209: Downloads
210: Member Screenshots
211: Community Forums
212: Home
213: Photo Gallery
214: Photo Gallery
215: Member Screenshots
216: Home
217: Home
218: Photo Gallery
219: Photo Gallery
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Home
223: Photo Gallery
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: Photo Gallery
227: Photo Gallery
228: Home
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Photo Gallery
242: Home
243: Photo Gallery
244: Photo Gallery
245: Home
246: Home
247: Member Screenshots
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Downloads
251: Home
252: Community Forums
253: Photo Gallery
254: Downloads
255: Home
256: Home
257: Photo Gallery
258: Home
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Home
262: Home
263: Home
264: Community Forums
265: Downloads
266: Community Forums
267: Photo Gallery
268: News Archive
269: Community Forums
270: Member Screenshots
271: Home
272: Home
273: Home
274: Downloads
275: Home
276: Downloads
277: News Archive
278: Community Forums
279: Photo Gallery
280: Home
281: Home
282: Photo Gallery
283: Community Forums
284: Photo Gallery
285: Community Forums
286: Home
287: Member Screenshots
288: Community Forums
289: Photo Gallery
290: Home
291: Photo Gallery
292: Photo Gallery
293: News
294: Home
295: Photo Gallery
296: Home
297: Community Forums
298: Home
299: Member Screenshots
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Home
303: Photo Gallery
304: Downloads
305: Community Forums
306: Downloads
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Home
314: Home
315: Community Forums
316: Downloads
317: Home
318: Downloads
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Member Screenshots
322: Home
323: Community Forums
324: Photo Gallery
325: Home
326: Community Forums
327: Photo Gallery
328: Photo Gallery
329: Photo Gallery
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Home
336: Community Forums
337: Downloads
338: Community Forums
339: Photo Gallery
340: Downloads
341: Community Forums
342: Photo Gallery
343: Home
344: Community Forums
345: Home
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Photo Gallery
350: Home
351: Home
352: Community Forums
353: Home
354: Photo Gallery
355: Home
356: Home
357: Home
358: Home
359: Member Screenshots
360: Photo Gallery
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: Photo Gallery
365: Community Forums
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: Downloads
369: Community Forums
370: Home
371: Home
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Home
375: Home
376: Photo Gallery
377: Community Forums
378: Home
379: Home
380: Home
381: Photo Gallery
382: Home
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Downloads
386: Photo Gallery
387: Community Forums
388: Home
389: Home
390: Home
391: Home
392: Home
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Photo Gallery
397: Photo Gallery
398: Home
399: Photo Gallery
400: Community Forums
401: Home
402: Home
403: Home
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Home
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Downloads
410: Home
411: Home
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Home
415: Community Forums
416: Downloads
417: Downloads
418: Home
419: Home
420: Home
421: Home
422: Home
423: Photo Gallery
424: Home
425: Home
426: Downloads
427: Home
428: Home
429: Member Screenshots
430: Home
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Home
434: Downloads
435: Downloads
436: Community Forums
437: Home
438: Home
439: Member Screenshots
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Home
444: Member Screenshots
445: Community Forums
446: Photo Gallery
447: Community Forums
448: Home
449: Member Screenshots
450: Home
451: Home
452: Community Forums
453: Home
454: Home
455: Member Screenshots
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Photo Gallery
459: Home
460: Photo Gallery
461: Member Screenshots
462: Home
463: Community Forums
464: Home
465: Home
466: Home
467: Home
468: Member Screenshots
469: Home
470: Community Forums
471: Home
472: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2069
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 12:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Hi Everyone,
Great thread on the M46 going here.

Until I read a comment that the M26/M46 tanks served with other NATO countries, I was not aware that anyone other than the US Army and USMC used those two vehicles. I have never seen a picture of either with markings from any of the other NATO countries that I can remember


South Korea had some (M46) for a while IIRC. They have one in the War Museum in Seoul. I know the 2nd Division had three still on static display in 2002. Two at Camp Casey, one was in front of 1st Tank, One in front of 2nd Tank, and the last at the Division Museum in Uijonbu, Camp Red Cloud. With all the changes I'm not sure what might have happened to them, Hopefully they bring them home. I know 2nd Tank's was in poor shape, being a former hard target. I have some pretty good pictures of the 1st Tank display at home.
Roy, I actually heard/read some where all M46's and M46A1's were farmed off. I also heard all the M46's used in the Korean war never came home and instead were transfered to the new ROK Army.That's why there are so few examples in the US. Unlike the M47's none were returned to the US when these countries upgraded to their own or newer tanks (That I know of), being considered too obsolete to be worth keeping for issue to other countries later. They probably served better as parts for M47's (They shared a lot of them). This would probably explain why I've seen so many wrecks of them on overseas ranges too.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Hi Joe! Hi Folks!

- Joe_D

South Korea had some (M46) for a while IIRC. They have one in the War Museum in Seoul. I know the 2nd Division had three still on static display in 2002. Two at Camp Casey, one was in front of 1st Tank, One in front of 2nd Tank, and the last at the Division Museum in Uijonbu, Camp Red Cloud. With all the changes I'm not sure what might have happened to them, Hopefully they bring them home. I know 2nd Tank's was in poor shape, being a former hard target. I have some pretty good pictures of the 1st Tank display at home.
Joe D


Speaking of Korea, when I was over there, the parade ground in front of the UN Headquarters Office Building had a M26 setting at one end of it.

- Joe_D

Roy, I actually heard/read some where all M46's and M46A1's were farmed off. I also heard all the M46's used in the Korean war never came home and instead were transfered to the new ROK Army.That's why there are so few examples in the US. Unlike the M47's none were returned to the US when these countries upgraded to their own or newer tanks (That I know of), being considered too obsolete to be worth keeping for issue to other countries later. They probably served better as parts for M47's (They shared a lot of them). This would probably explain why I've seen so many wrecks of them on overseas ranges too.
Joe D


I remember seeing a large target holding area at Hohenfels (1974-1978) full of, what I though at the time, were Pershing tanks. It was only later that I learned that a Pershing with two mufflers on the rear fenders was NOT a Pershing, but a M46 Patton!

Speaking of spare parts for the M47s, I wonder if any of the hulls had their M26/M46 turrets replaced by the M47 type. After all, why build new hulls, if all you need to do if replace the turret? Could that possible, ALSO, help account for why there are very few M26 and M46 tanks that have survived?

Very interesting thread! Time for bed here in Far West Texas! Crying or Very sad
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
jcneel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Victoria, Texas
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 6:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

The M46's have a different front end than does the M47's. The M46 front end matches that of the M26 Pershing, but with a more squared out casting over the respirator device or whatever it is that it covers (not near my references at home and not really thinking too straight here at work at the moment to remember exactly what this is). The M47's have an all new cast front end.

cn
Back to top
View user's profile
mykef2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 19, 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 12:08 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46,

Re : M46 tanks

Sad to say, Fort Irwin received a bunch of M46 and I think a few M47's as European returns in 1996. I believe they were Spanish. They were lined up at the edge of the dry lake airfield.

At that time they were destined for the live fire range, although the OPFOR regiment (4/73rd Armor at the time) pulled one M46 in and painted it in a Korean War Tiger scheme.

hth,
mike
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 12:13 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Mike,
Is this M46 still there?

Jeff,
You know anything about this one?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 12:26 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

FYI, Hunnicutt refers to SN 16 and SN 31 early production M46s - so it appears that they were given new SNs after conversion from M26s. Hunnicutt is somewhat unclear on how many M46s vs M46A1s were built:

"An initial production run of 800 M46s was included in the 1949 budget and it was estimated that 1215 additional M26s were available for conversion during the 1950 fiscal eyar. All of these plans were to be modified by unexpected events in the Far East." (p 14)

Otherwise Hunnicutt (p 17) says 360 M46A1s were built.

Some sites appear to claim that 800 M46s were built (as planned) plus the 360 M46A1s for a total of 1160 M46s of both types - but that would make SN 1169 a fairly odd number... Although I'd probably bet it is an M46A1 regardless...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 1:27 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46,

I believe Charles Lemons discussed M46s and serials on the old site. I have a printout of a message from around 6/27/05, (message 65191) that was in the middle of the thread.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 1:50 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Care to share what was said? Or are you going to just tease us?

I wish we hadnt given up the archive of the old site at least...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Hi Heil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner
FYI, Hunnicutt refers to SN 16 and SN 31 early production M46s - so it appears that they were given new SNs after conversion from M26s. Hunnicutt is somewhat unclear on how many M46s vs M46A1s were built:

"An initial production run of 800 M46s was included in the 1949 budget and it was estimated that 1215 additional M26s were available for conversion during the 1950 fiscal eyar..... (p 14)

Otherwise Hunnicutt (p 17) says 360 M46A1s were built.

Some sites appear to claim that 800 M46s were built (as planned) plus the 360 M46A1s for a total of 1160 M46s of both types - but that would make SN 1169 a fairly odd number... Although I'd probably bet it is an M46A1 regardless...
Neil


Neil, question! Can you tell from the text if he talking about conversions ONLY or is he saying new hulls and turrets where constructed?

When it comes to Hunnicutt's books, Patton is one of two of his books I don't have yet.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 9:19 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

It appears he is only talking about conversions. He does say "production" as well, but I believe that term can include "new" production as well as conversions in the broad sense.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:45 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

I read over that section last night also and found it somewhat vague. I remember in one passage he mentioned that the designation for M46 (new) was changed to M46A1 to reduce confusion. This makes me think that when he was talking about 'production' of M46s he is actually talking about conversions of existing M26s (Just now I'm wondering if there are any pertinent comments in the Pershing book)

As far as the numbers I now interpret the passage about the 800 as saying that the 800 were commited to conversion in the 1949 budget and that there would still be 1215 M26s planned for conversion in FY 50. Although he says the FY 50 plans were disrupted by the conflict in Korea it doesn't say none of the 1215 were converted. So I think we have 800 FY49 conversions + 360 Newbuilds (M46A1) + an unknown number of FY50 conversions.

In another section he says Korean units kept their M46s longer than anyone else because the Truce accords were interpreted to mean that new equipment could not be brought into the country so even after the type was retired everywhere else it remained in Korea. That section of the truce accords must eventually have either been renegotiated or reinterpreted since much more modern equipment is now over there Smile

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:41 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

Just now I'm wondering if there are any pertinent comments in the Pershing book


Off the top of head, (I am still a work), he only says something like, "the T-23E3 lead to the T-40 which became the M46". At that point the development of tank history in the Pershing book ends.

Update/correction: Now that I have my book:
On page 154, Hunnicutt reports on the 1948 modernization program for a new power pack. The test pack was installed into a modified M26, which was later redesignated M26E2. May 1948, vehicle sent to APGs for testing. Page 156, ....results incorporated into the T40, which was standardized as the M46.

Near the bottom of p156, he reports on the M3A1 90 cannon. The paragrafe ends with "Both the M26A1 and the M46 were destined to serve alongside the standard Pershing in Korea."

Those two items are the only references to the M46 in the Pershing book.
Time for bed!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Wed May 23, 2007 1:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2069
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:59 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Hey Mkef2,
Welcome. Gotta question. You sure you didn't mean 1986 instead of 96?
By 1996 11th ACR was the OPFOR. In '86 they were still 1-73 Armor, then switched to 1-63 Armor in Oct when they became the 177th Armor Brigade (Seperate). I remember all the tanks lined up at Bike Lake then. A bunch of M47's. I also remember a bunch of M26's laying around as hard targets too during that time.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 2:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

Those two items are the only references to the M46 in the Pershing book.
Time for bed!
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Durn

I thought it might mention the conversion of some M26s into M46s and mybe pin down the number better

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

- Neil_Baumgardner
Care to share what was said? Or are you going to just tease us?

I wish we hadnt given up the archive of the old site at least...

Neil


I dunno - all I kept was one page with M26 serials that was in a "M26/M46 Numbers" thread. . .

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 3 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum