±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 356
Total: 356
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Member Screenshots
06: Community Forums
07: News Archive
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Home
11: Home
12: Member Screenshots
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Photo Gallery
17: Photo Gallery
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Member Screenshots
21: Community Forums
22: News Archive
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: News Archive
26: Home
27: Home
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Member Screenshots
31: Home
32: Downloads
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Member Screenshots
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Home
42: Member Screenshots
43: Home
44: Home
45: Member Screenshots
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Member Screenshots
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Member Screenshots
53: Home
54: Home
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Member Screenshots
60: Downloads
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Home
65: Downloads
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Home
75: Home
76: Home
77: Home
78: Member Screenshots
79: Home
80: Community Forums
81: Member Screenshots
82: Member Screenshots
83: Home
84: Member Screenshots
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Home
89: Home
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Home
94: Downloads
95: Member Screenshots
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Downloads
104: Member Screenshots
105: Community Forums
106: Member Screenshots
107: Home
108: Home
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Photo Gallery
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Home
121: Member Screenshots
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Member Screenshots
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Statistics
137: Member Screenshots
138: Member Screenshots
139: Downloads
140: Member Screenshots
141: Home
142: News Archive
143: Home
144: Community Forums
145: Home
146: Community Forums
147: Photo Gallery
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: News Archive
151: Community Forums
152: Member Screenshots
153: Member Screenshots
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Home
158: News Archive
159: Community Forums
160: Member Screenshots
161: Community Forums
162: Member Screenshots
163: Community Forums
164: Downloads
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Member Screenshots
170: Member Screenshots
171: Downloads
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Home
177: Community Forums
178: Member Screenshots
179: Community Forums
180: Member Screenshots
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Member Screenshots
185: Member Screenshots
186: Member Screenshots
187: Member Screenshots
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Downloads
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Photo Gallery
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Home
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Member Screenshots
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Home
231: Member Screenshots
232: Home
233: Member Screenshots
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Community Forums
239: Your Account
240: Community Forums
241: Downloads
242: News Archive
243: Member Screenshots
244: Member Screenshots
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Member Screenshots
250: Member Screenshots
251: News
252: Community Forums
253: News Archive
254: Member Screenshots
255: Community Forums
256: Photo Gallery
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Home
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: News Archive
265: Photo Gallery
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Home
270: Member Screenshots
271: Community Forums
272: Home
273: Community Forums
274: Photo Gallery
275: Member Screenshots
276: Member Screenshots
277: Community Forums
278: Member Screenshots
279: Home
280: Home
281: Statistics
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: Community Forums
285: News Archive
286: Statistics
287: Community Forums
288: Home
289: Member Screenshots
290: Community Forums
291: Member Screenshots
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Member Screenshots
304: Home
305: Community Forums
306: Downloads
307: Home
308: Community Forums
309: Home
310: Downloads
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Member Screenshots
314: Photo Gallery
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Home
318: Photo Gallery
319: Member Screenshots
320: Photo Gallery
321: Member Screenshots
322: Member Screenshots
323: Downloads
324: Member Screenshots
325: Downloads
326: Downloads
327: Home
328: Community Forums
329: Member Screenshots
330: Home
331: Home
332: Member Screenshots
333: Community Forums
334: Member Screenshots
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Member Screenshots
339: Community Forums
340: Home
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Home
347: Member Screenshots
348: Community Forums
349: Member Screenshots
350: Community Forums
351: Home
352: Member Screenshots
353: Home
354: Home
355: Home
356: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 12:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Hi Everyone,
Great thread on the M46 going here.

Until I read a comment that the M26/M46 tanks served with other NATO countries, I was not aware that anyone other than the US Army and USMC used those two vehicles. I have never seen a picture of either with markings from any of the other NATO countries that I can remember


South Korea had some (M46) for a while IIRC. They have one in the War Museum in Seoul. I know the 2nd Division had three still on static display in 2002. Two at Camp Casey, one was in front of 1st Tank, One in front of 2nd Tank, and the last at the Division Museum in Uijonbu, Camp Red Cloud. With all the changes I'm not sure what might have happened to them, Hopefully they bring them home. I know 2nd Tank's was in poor shape, being a former hard target. I have some pretty good pictures of the 1st Tank display at home.
Roy, I actually heard/read some where all M46's and M46A1's were farmed off. I also heard all the M46's used in the Korean war never came home and instead were transfered to the new ROK Army.That's why there are so few examples in the US. Unlike the M47's none were returned to the US when these countries upgraded to their own or newer tanks (That I know of), being considered too obsolete to be worth keeping for issue to other countries later. They probably served better as parts for M47's (They shared a lot of them). This would probably explain why I've seen so many wrecks of them on overseas ranges too.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Hi Joe! Hi Folks!

- Joe_D

South Korea had some (M46) for a while IIRC. They have one in the War Museum in Seoul. I know the 2nd Division had three still on static display in 2002. Two at Camp Casey, one was in front of 1st Tank, One in front of 2nd Tank, and the last at the Division Museum in Uijonbu, Camp Red Cloud. With all the changes I'm not sure what might have happened to them, Hopefully they bring them home. I know 2nd Tank's was in poor shape, being a former hard target. I have some pretty good pictures of the 1st Tank display at home.
Joe D


Speaking of Korea, when I was over there, the parade ground in front of the UN Headquarters Office Building had a M26 setting at one end of it.

- Joe_D

Roy, I actually heard/read some where all M46's and M46A1's were farmed off. I also heard all the M46's used in the Korean war never came home and instead were transfered to the new ROK Army.That's why there are so few examples in the US. Unlike the M47's none were returned to the US when these countries upgraded to their own or newer tanks (That I know of), being considered too obsolete to be worth keeping for issue to other countries later. They probably served better as parts for M47's (They shared a lot of them). This would probably explain why I've seen so many wrecks of them on overseas ranges too.
Joe D


I remember seeing a large target holding area at Hohenfels (1974-1978) full of, what I though at the time, were Pershing tanks. It was only later that I learned that a Pershing with two mufflers on the rear fenders was NOT a Pershing, but a M46 Patton!

Speaking of spare parts for the M47s, I wonder if any of the hulls had their M26/M46 turrets replaced by the M47 type. After all, why build new hulls, if all you need to do if replace the turret? Could that possible, ALSO, help account for why there are very few M26 and M46 tanks that have survived?

Very interesting thread! Time for bed here in Far West Texas! Crying or Very sad
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
jcneel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Victoria, Texas
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 6:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

The M46's have a different front end than does the M47's. The M46 front end matches that of the M26 Pershing, but with a more squared out casting over the respirator device or whatever it is that it covers (not near my references at home and not really thinking too straight here at work at the moment to remember exactly what this is). The M47's have an all new cast front end.

cn
Back to top
View user's profile
mykef2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 19, 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 12:08 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46,

Re : M46 tanks

Sad to say, Fort Irwin received a bunch of M46 and I think a few M47's as European returns in 1996. I believe they were Spanish. They were lined up at the edge of the dry lake airfield.

At that time they were destined for the live fire range, although the OPFOR regiment (4/73rd Armor at the time) pulled one M46 in and painted it in a Korean War Tiger scheme.

hth,
mike
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 12:13 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Mike,
Is this M46 still there?

Jeff,
You know anything about this one?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 12:26 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

FYI, Hunnicutt refers to SN 16 and SN 31 early production M46s - so it appears that they were given new SNs after conversion from M26s. Hunnicutt is somewhat unclear on how many M46s vs M46A1s were built:

"An initial production run of 800 M46s was included in the 1949 budget and it was estimated that 1215 additional M26s were available for conversion during the 1950 fiscal eyar. All of these plans were to be modified by unexpected events in the Far East." (p 14)

Otherwise Hunnicutt (p 17) says 360 M46A1s were built.

Some sites appear to claim that 800 M46s were built (as planned) plus the 360 M46A1s for a total of 1160 M46s of both types - but that would make SN 1169 a fairly odd number... Although I'd probably bet it is an M46A1 regardless...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 1:27 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46,

I believe Charles Lemons discussed M46s and serials on the old site. I have a printout of a message from around 6/27/05, (message 65191) that was in the middle of the thread.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 1:50 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Care to share what was said? Or are you going to just tease us?

I wish we hadnt given up the archive of the old site at least...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Hi Heil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner
FYI, Hunnicutt refers to SN 16 and SN 31 early production M46s - so it appears that they were given new SNs after conversion from M26s. Hunnicutt is somewhat unclear on how many M46s vs M46A1s were built:

"An initial production run of 800 M46s was included in the 1949 budget and it was estimated that 1215 additional M26s were available for conversion during the 1950 fiscal eyar..... (p 14)

Otherwise Hunnicutt (p 17) says 360 M46A1s were built.

Some sites appear to claim that 800 M46s were built (as planned) plus the 360 M46A1s for a total of 1160 M46s of both types - but that would make SN 1169 a fairly odd number... Although I'd probably bet it is an M46A1 regardless...
Neil


Neil, question! Can you tell from the text if he talking about conversions ONLY or is he saying new hulls and turrets where constructed?

When it comes to Hunnicutt's books, Patton is one of two of his books I don't have yet.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 9:19 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

It appears he is only talking about conversions. He does say "production" as well, but I believe that term can include "new" production as well as conversions in the broad sense.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:45 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

I read over that section last night also and found it somewhat vague. I remember in one passage he mentioned that the designation for M46 (new) was changed to M46A1 to reduce confusion. This makes me think that when he was talking about 'production' of M46s he is actually talking about conversions of existing M26s (Just now I'm wondering if there are any pertinent comments in the Pershing book)

As far as the numbers I now interpret the passage about the 800 as saying that the 800 were commited to conversion in the 1949 budget and that there would still be 1215 M26s planned for conversion in FY 50. Although he says the FY 50 plans were disrupted by the conflict in Korea it doesn't say none of the 1215 were converted. So I think we have 800 FY49 conversions + 360 Newbuilds (M46A1) + an unknown number of FY50 conversions.

In another section he says Korean units kept their M46s longer than anyone else because the Truce accords were interpreted to mean that new equipment could not be brought into the country so even after the type was retired everywhere else it remained in Korea. That section of the truce accords must eventually have either been renegotiated or reinterpreted since much more modern equipment is now over there Smile

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:41 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

Just now I'm wondering if there are any pertinent comments in the Pershing book


Off the top of head, (I am still a work), he only says something like, "the T-23E3 lead to the T-40 which became the M46". At that point the development of tank history in the Pershing book ends.

Update/correction: Now that I have my book:
On page 154, Hunnicutt reports on the 1948 modernization program for a new power pack. The test pack was installed into a modified M26, which was later redesignated M26E2. May 1948, vehicle sent to APGs for testing. Page 156, ....results incorporated into the T40, which was standardized as the M46.

Near the bottom of p156, he reports on the M3A1 90 cannon. The paragrafe ends with "Both the M26A1 and the M46 were destined to serve alongside the standard Pershing in Korea."

Those two items are the only references to the M46 in the Pershing book.
Time for bed!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Wed May 23, 2007 1:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:59 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Hey Mkef2,
Welcome. Gotta question. You sure you didn't mean 1986 instead of 96?
By 1996 11th ACR was the OPFOR. In '86 they were still 1-73 Armor, then switched to 1-63 Armor in Oct when they became the 177th Armor Brigade (Seperate). I remember all the tanks lined up at Bike Lake then. A bunch of M47's. I also remember a bunch of M26's laying around as hard targets too during that time.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 2:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

Those two items are the only references to the M46 in the Pershing book.
Time for bed!
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Durn

I thought it might mention the conversion of some M26s into M46s and mybe pin down the number better

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

- Neil_Baumgardner
Care to share what was said? Or are you going to just tease us?

I wish we hadnt given up the archive of the old site at least...

Neil


I dunno - all I kept was one page with M26 serials that was in a "M26/M46 Numbers" thread. . .

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 3 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum