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Neil_Baumgardner

Okay, I still need some ID help on these...

- Neil_Baumgardner

Some sort of test vehicle?

I'm thinking its an AMX-40 hull? But that may mean too many AMX-40s?...

ERC prototype?

Any concurrence that this is an ERC prototype?

? turret

Thoughts on this turret?

Neil

the_shadock

- Neil_Baumgardner

I'm thinking its an AMX-40 hull? But that may mean too many AMX-40s?...
[/quote]

It looks more like an AMX-30 based prototype....

P-O

the_shadock

Finally, is this a T-54 or a T-55 ?

P-O

palic · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 172

I guess it is T-54 due to turret vent dome in front of loader's hatch. Picture of front portion of hull with hull MG aperture could make my "guess" into "sure" identification.

the_shadock · Last edited by the_shadock on Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:21 pm; edited 2 times in total

After having seen Neils and my own photos hundreds times, compared vehicles on multiple angles, compared old and recent pics, that's the list I was able to do of the vehicles that can be seen outside the Bossut Hall, in storage. Sorry, but the list is half in French and half in English, as I'm currently working on the French version of the France register, but IU'm sure it will be easily understandable :

Zone accessible to the public

AMX-30 Roland FRA out RN 654 0004
Leclerc FRA out â€œFochâ€?; RN 6904 0116
M4A1E8 Sherman Easy Eight USA/FRA out â€œUskubâ€?
M4A2(75) Sherman USA/FRA out â€œCorseâ€?; RN 420050
T-34/85 SOV out

Temporary expo about the AMX family

AMX-10 P expÃ©rimental FRA ext Hhydrostatic transmission; RN 6814-0006
AMX-13 105mm FRA ext
AMX-13 105mm Automoteur FRA ext RN 8500-23
AMX-13 75mm FRA ext RN 627357
AMX-13 90mm FRA ext
AMX-13 DCA FRA ext RN 274 0104
AMX-13 M55 Recovery veh. FRA ext â€œVimyâ€?; RN 608 0228
AMX-13 Bridge layer FRA ext â€œEblÃ©â€?; RN 2440386
AMX-13 VCG F1 (Engineers) FRA ext RN 504000
AMX-13 VCI (Infantry) FRA ext
AMX-30 FRA ext
AMX-30 C2 FRA ext â€œ30C2â€?; painted in sand-yellow

Forbidden access storage area, far left of the Museum

M5A1 Stuart USA/FRA ext â€œCdt Detroyatâ€?
AMX-13 90mm FRA ext RN 287 0669??
AMX-10 P FRA ext Without turret and tracks
AMX-10 C FRA ext
EBR Panhard FRA ext
Char B1 bis DÃ©mineur FRA ext Prototype
HS-30 APC DEU ext
M8 HMC USA ext
AMX-13 VCI FRA ext RN 5040008
Renault UE FRA ext Without its tracks
Renault R-35 FRA ext
AMX-10 P FRA ext Experimental turret and gun???
VXB-170 VBRG FRA ext RN 614 0371
AMX-40 FRA ext Without tracks, one of 4 prototypes
AMX-10 VOA FRA ext
M4A? chÃ¢ssis USA ext Missing a track, no turret
M4A1(75) Sherman USA ext
ERC 90 Sagaie chÃ¢ssis FRA ext
M24 Chaffee USA/FRA ext
BTR-50 PU SOV ext
VAB FRA ext Painted in white

Forbidden access storage area, left of the Museum

ERC prototype?
M74 ARV USA ext RN 238-1354; HVSS
M32 or M74 ARV USA ext RN 628-0385; HVSS
STRV M74 SWE ext
AMX-30 FRA ext
AMX-30 prototype?? FRA ext
Type 63 APC CHN/IRQ ext Industrial designation : YW 531
ELC Even version 90mm FRA ext RN ???
M4A1(76) Sherman DD FRA ext Turret replaced after the war?
M88A1 Recovery Vehicle USA ext
Unknown Russian vehicle with Egyptian markings -> WZ 701 Command tank CHN/EGY ext
M3A3 Stuart USA sto No gun
M4A3(75) Sherman USA ext Number 20 painted on the turret
M4A1E8 Sherman Easy Eight USA/FRA ext
M74 ARV USA ext RN 628 386
Sav M/43 SWE ext Awaiting restoration

Area where is stored the Panther Ausf. A

T-72M SOV/DDR ext NumÃ©ro de sÃ©rie F02VT5360
PzKpfw V Panther G DEU ext NumÃ©ro de sÃ©rie 120790? 9
AMX-13 90mm FRA ext
M47 Patton USA ext RN 268-0020
M48A2 Patton Pionier Panzer USA/DEU ext Pots fumigÃ¨nes allemands
Type 653A Recovery tank CHN/IRQ ext Manque les chenilles 10
T-54 or T-55 SOV ext SN V9831143
BTR-50 PK SOV ext No track on one side
M48 AVLB Launched Bridge USA/DEU ext
T-54B SOV ext

Area right-side of the French-painted Panther Ausf. A

M42 Duster USA ext
M10 Achilles USA/GBR ext Maybe RN 620-069??
M8 HMC USA/FRA ext RN 520873
M4(105) Sherman Dozer USA ext With Dozer blade
M31 ARV USA ext With its winch
Unknown vehicle NÂ°1
Unknown vehicle NÂ°2
Unknown vehicle NÂ°3
AMX-10 P prototype?? FRA ext turret without gun
AMX-10 HOT FRA ext
Batignolles-ChÃ¢tillon de 25t FRA ext One of 2 prototypes
Unknown vehicle NÂ°4
AMX-VTT Roland (hull) FRA ext

Back of the museum (near an old railroad)

Fouga VP-90 FRA ext
Hotchkiss HB-40 FRA ext
M-113??? USA/FRA ext
Hotchkiss Spz 2-2 Ambulance FRA ext
Panhard M3 FRA ext
Panhard M3 FRA ext
1 unknown armored car

I'm 90% sure no vehicle is listed twice here. A dozen of vehicle remains unidentified..

I'll now work on identifying the unidentified vehicles, and try to do a list of the vehicles that are on off-site storage (incl. the ones which participated to the Carrousel)

P-O

Neil_Baumgardner

- the_shadock

Zone accessible to the public

M4A2(75) Sherman USA/FRA out â€œCorseâ€?; RN 420050

This Sherman had the following French? SN? stamp - 30850....

If anyone can make it out, there were also numbers stamped on the right upper front hull

Temporary expo about the AMX family

AMX-30 FRA ext
AMX-30 C2 FRA ext â€œ30C2â€?; painted in sand-yellow

I think our conclusion was that the first AMX-30 (the green one) was a prototype? Compare the two...

Neil

Neil_Baumgardner

- the_shadock

Forbidden access storage area, left of the Museum

M74 ARV USA ext RN 238-1354; HVSS
M74 ARV USA ext RN 628-0385; HVSS

Jens identified 628-0385 as an M32, probably an M32B3.

Back of the museum (near an old railroad)

Fouga VP-90 FRA ext
Hotchkiss HB-40 FRA ext
M-113??? USA/FRA ext

There were 2 M113s. One was marked "French Foreign Legion mine clearing experimental armored vehicle." The other had a GIAT emblem.

3 unknown armored cars (Neil could help to identify them)

Yeah, Panhard M3s...

Isnt that Tiger track in the left foreground?

Neil

the_shadock

- Neil_Baumgardner

- the_shadock

Forbidden access storage area, left of the Museum

M74 ARV USA ext RN 238-1354; HVSS
M74 ARV USA ext RN 628-0385; HVSS

Jens identified 628-0385 as an M32, probably an M32B3.

The RN 628-0385 is identified as an M74 by Trevor Larkum in PTIF, but Jens may be true, I really don't know... So I'll list it temporarily as an "M32 or M74 ARV".

There is a third armored car at the back of the museum that should be identified. I'll publish a photo of it later.

P-O

Esa_Muikku

- the_shadock

Finally, is this a T-54 or a T-55 ?

P-O

It is definitely a T-54, probably a T-54B, but that you can not tell from this photo.

Esa M

the_shadock

Some more vehicles from Saumur to identify, please go on the album and have a look to the photos. I can't manage to post the photos on the forum directly... I don't know why but the server is forbiddening the access to a photo linked from an external website...

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/560046376iZuVfr

P-O

Rikard_Hufschmied

- Neil_Baumgardner

Isnt that Tiger track in the left foreground?

Neil

It might be the narrow transport tracks for the Tiger I, if not they are sure close.

the_shadock

- Neil_Baumgardner

Chinese APC?

Looks like a Type 63 (industrial designation YW 531) Chinese APC.
The "Unknown Russian vehicle with Egyptian markings" is in fact a Chinese WZ 701 Command tank.

P-O

pd278 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 8

that panther came from paris one of two as monuments

GaryKato · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 39

Unknown armored car (the middle one, I assume) looks like a Panhard M3.

Unknown 2 is probably an Alvis Stalwart (Accurate Armor just came out with a kit of it)

Unknown 3 looks like an AMX-13 VCI or VCA. VCI is for infantry, VCA is for artillery.

Unknown 4 looks like an AMX-10P.

the_shadock

- GaryKato

Unknown armored car (the middle one, I assume) looks like a Panhard M3.

That's not a Panhard M3.. there are not mudguards on this vehicle and the hull shows some differences.

- GaryKato

Unknown 3 looks like an AMX-13 VCI or VCA. VCI is for infantry, VCA is for artillery.

The drive sprocket is not from an AMX-13, plus it has a dozer blande which makes it an Engineer tank..
Anyway thanks for helping !!

Pierre-Olivier

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