±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 553
Total: 553
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Your Account
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Downloads
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Member Screenshots
09: Community Forums
10: Downloads
11: Community Forums
12: Downloads
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Photo Gallery
17: Photo Gallery
18: Photo Gallery
19: Home
20: Home
21: Home
22: Member Screenshots
23: News
24: Community Forums
25: Photo Gallery
26: Member Screenshots
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Member Screenshots
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: News Archive
48: Member Screenshots
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: News Archive
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Photo Gallery
58: Photo Gallery
59: Community Forums
60: Member Screenshots
61: Member Screenshots
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Your Account
66: Search
67: Community Forums
68: News
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Member Screenshots
73: Community Forums
74: Member Screenshots
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Member Screenshots
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Member Screenshots
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Home
90: Community Forums
91: Home
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Photo Gallery
96: Member Screenshots
97: Member Screenshots
98: Member Screenshots
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Statistics
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Your Account
110: Member Screenshots
111: Treasury
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Community Forums
115: Home
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Downloads
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Member Screenshots
127: News Archive
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: Downloads
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Downloads
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Member Screenshots
140: Home
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Home
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Member Screenshots
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Photo Gallery
156: Member Screenshots
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Photo Gallery
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Home
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Home
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Home
175: Home
176: Home
177: Home
178: Member Screenshots
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Downloads
182: Community Forums
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Statistics
189: Downloads
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Member Screenshots
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Member Screenshots
197: Community Forums
198: Member Screenshots
199: Member Screenshots
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Photo Gallery
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: News Archive
207: Photo Gallery
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: News
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Photo Gallery
216: Community Forums
217: Home
218: Photo Gallery
219: Downloads
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Member Screenshots
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Home
229: Community Forums
230: News Archive
231: Photo Gallery
232: Photo Gallery
233: Downloads
234: Member Screenshots
235: Photo Gallery
236: Home
237: Community Forums
238: Photo Gallery
239: Home
240: Member Screenshots
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Downloads
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Photo Gallery
247: Member Screenshots
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Photo Gallery
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Home
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Member Screenshots
262: Community Forums
263: News Archive
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Downloads
268: Home
269: Community Forums
270: Member Screenshots
271: Community Forums
272: Statistics
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Home
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Photo Gallery
282: Community Forums
283: Member Screenshots
284: Downloads
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: News
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Photo Gallery
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Home
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Member Screenshots
307: Community Forums
308: News
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Home
312: Community Forums
313: Home
314: News
315: Community Forums
316: Member Screenshots
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Member Screenshots
322: Downloads
323: Community Forums
324: News Archive
325: Statistics
326: Home
327: Community Forums
328: Downloads
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: Home
333: Downloads
334: Community Forums
335: Home
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: News Archive
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Member Screenshots
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Home
348: Downloads
349: Member Screenshots
350: Photo Gallery
351: Community Forums
352: Downloads
353: Member Screenshots
354: Community Forums
355: Member Screenshots
356: Home
357: Community Forums
358: Photo Gallery
359: Contact
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Downloads
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Home
368: Your Account
369: Community Forums
370: Photo Gallery
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Member Screenshots
379: Community Forums
380: Photo Gallery
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Home
385: News
386: Home
387: Member Screenshots
388: Statistics
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Member Screenshots
393: Community Forums
394: Home
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Downloads
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Home
402: Member Screenshots
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Photo Gallery
406: Community Forums
407: Home
408: Photo Gallery
409: Home
410: Photo Gallery
411: Member Screenshots
412: Community Forums
413: Photo Gallery
414: Downloads
415: Photo Gallery
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Photo Gallery
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Photo Gallery
424: Home
425: Community Forums
426: Home
427: News Archive
428: Home
429: Member Screenshots
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Downloads
437: Community Forums
438: Home
439: Community Forums
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Home
443: Community Forums
444: News Archive
445: Community Forums
446: Downloads
447: Community Forums
448: Downloads
449: Home
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Photo Gallery
459: Home
460: Home
461: Photo Gallery
462: Home
463: Photo Gallery
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Home
467: Home
468: Home
469: Member Screenshots
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Home
474: Community Forums
475: Member Screenshots
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Photo Gallery
480: Community Forums
481: News Archive
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Home
488: Photo Gallery
489: Home
490: Photo Gallery
491: Community Forums
492: News Archive
493: Photo Gallery
494: Member Screenshots
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Home
498: Member Screenshots
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: News Archive
502: Member Screenshots
503: Home
504: Community Forums
505: Statistics
506: Community Forums
507: Photo Gallery
508: Member Screenshots
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: News
512: Community Forums
513: Home
514: News Archive
515: Community Forums
516: Home
517: Home
518: Photo Gallery
519: Member Screenshots
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Downloads
523: News
524: Community Forums
525: Member Screenshots
526: Photo Gallery
527: Member Screenshots
528: Community Forums
529: Member Screenshots
530: Community Forums
531: Home
532: Home
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Photo Gallery
537: Community Forums
538: Home
539: Community Forums
540: Home
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Home
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Downloads
552: Member Screenshots
553: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
NTC Desert Guard 87
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:04 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

The Dreaded turn in at NTC,
I have both good and bad experiences at the place. Good being how my troops performed under such unrealistic expectations. Bad in how STUPID and wasteful the whole system was set up. My last few times there I pretty much resigned myself to the fact that whatever you drew it was crap. The funny part was near the end the equipment (M1's) were actually better than what we had at home. Newer too. Shortly after Desert Storm NTC got a bunch of M1's in that came from deactivated units. Pretty nice stuff but you would find some strange surprises in odd loations when you took them apart, let us say some folks hid things hoping to get stuff back from theater, finding out later that they would not get the same tank back in the states. I saw my first Pulse Jet air cleaner system there (only place I had it), experienced my first AIM M1 too. I think the saddest thing about the whole draw and turn in set up at NTC was that it forced soldiers to do a lot of shady underhanded things in order to turn in a tank. We called it "Yuck" maintenance. You didn't fix it right, you just rigged it to pass the inspector. You didn't care as long as you got rid of the vehicle, it was now the next guys problem. I actully witnessed the rigging of a Driver's instument panel so it would read full when the power was on to keep from draining and replacing the fuel sensors in the tanks. The crew RTV'd the botton 2 inches of the cones so if the inspector checked the level from the fuel caps it look full. That's what happens when they all of a sudden say "Oh by the way, you now need to change out the sensors, sorry." after saying it was ok earlier. Another really stupid thing they would do is make you sit and wait for parts on back order. The part usually being some insignificant pin or do-hicky that would take all of 5 minutes to install by an operator. All they had to do is just put the part in the tank and let the next crew install it when they came in. I can't remember the wise officer who quoted "NTC is the Army's official Hazing, you don't get much out of it except the fact that you can say you did it" Why else would you still be issued shelter halves. When's the last time you've seen US soldiers sleep in a pup tent when deployed. I will say one good thing about drawing a Tank though. It don't follow you home. I took a tank and spent about 2 months repairing it at home station because our priority for parts was zero.

Dontos, Debbie was alright, along with the group she worked with. It just takes one A--Hole in a position of authority and a grudge (usually a former soldier, kicked out for drugs/discipline) to mess it up for everyone. Jeff said it all.

Just a litte rant, NTC PTSD Smile

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:48 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

The 'Debbie' I knew there was Debbie Hayes. She was a turret mechanic.

It was my experience that the biggest A-holes there were the ones who had never been in the service. The vets had an idea what it was like in the Army but the non-vets were clueless. They should have only hired ex-army people.

It was BS awaiting the parts that never would come in. That should never have been done on non-deadline items.

While I was there I worked on M48A5, M60A1, M60A3 and M1(IP). Had some good times there but then I got to go home at night Smile

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:02 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

- MarkHolloway
The 'Debbie' I knew there was Debbie Hayes. She was a turret mechanic.

It was my experience that the biggest A-holes there were the ones who had never been in the service. The vets had an idea what it was like in the Army but the non-vets were clueless. They should have only hired ex-army people.

It was BS awaiting the parts that never would come in. That should never have been done on non-deadline items.

While I was there I worked on M48A5, M60A1, M60A3 and M1(IP). Had some good times there but then I got to go home at night Smile


I did rotations in...
Jan 86: A Co 2/5 CAV, 1st CAV: We took our M-1's. Oldest in the Army & none in Draw yard (yet)

July 90: C Co 3/70 AR, 5th ID: Drew IPM-1's 'fresh' from POMCUS. Decent Tank, extended rotation for World News Agencies.

June 93: C Co 3/8 Cav, 1st Cav Div: Drew A 'P.O.S.' M1A1. NBC System non-operational (circle X at Draw), 'Thermalized' Engine, Plow Tank.

May 98: HHC 2/12 Cav, 1st Cav Div: S-3 (House of Pain!!)

June 2000: D Co 2/12 Cav, 1st Cav Div: Drew 4- M1A1HA's. Several major deficencies, but a good rotation.

Regards,
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Burik
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:12 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

Interesting stories about turning in equipment... As probably most know, now the units bring their own equipment. I was told since units take much of their own equipment on deployment, they wanted to be able to bring it to the NTC as well, to be sure they were fighting with their own stuff both in practice and in reality.

No more of that doing just enought to get by stuff at the end of an NTC rotation. They have to take it back with them and take care of it at home.

However, nothing is absolute. When I was there recently with the 3rd ID I believe they were using mostly Humvees supplied by the NTC.

Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:28 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

NTC was mostly issuing wheeled vehicles and trailers since most units bring their own armor with them now. The OPFOR's M1's were old, and were used only so the tankers amoung them could keep up on their skills by firing their Tank Tables for qualifications. Otherwise the M1's just sat in the motor pools most of the time. MUCH more maintenance was applied to the old Sheridans, and latter OSV's than the M1's ever saw. Heck, the M1's weren't even deployed in 2005 with the 11th ACR, they drew pre-position stock in theater. The Mortar tracks on the other hand were deployed but once in theater, were used in FOB/Firebase support. That was only half the platoon, (a section). The other half were given Hummers and used as bridge/road guards in and around Abu-Garib area. While a few others helped train Iraqi forces.
Before being stationed at NTC from July 2002 thru June 2006, I did 6 rotations as "Blufor" between 1986 and 2002. Two with 24th ID, one with 3rd ID, 2 with 4th ID, and the one mentioned before with the Ohio National Guard, (I was actually a OPFOR augmentee then).
Many, many stories both good and sad to tell. I was there when the three scout Bradley's from HHC 2-7IN, 24th ID went over the cliff at night and killed the platoon sergeant and platoon leader. The MSG was less than a year from retirement and the 1LT was one of the most liked officers in the company. Eleven other soldiers were badly injured in the roll-overs and medivac'd.
Enough blabbing for now.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:35 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

- Burik
Interesting stories about turning in equipment... As probably most know, now the units bring their own equipment. I was told since units take much of their own equipment on deployment, they wanted to be able to bring it to the NTC as well, to be sure they were fighting with their own stuff both in practice and in reality.

No more of that doing just enought to get by stuff at the end of an NTC rotation. They have to take it back with them and take care of it at home.

However, nothing is absolute. When I was there recently with the 3rd ID I believe they were using mostly Humvees supplied by the NTC.

Bob


The 'take your own stuff' has been wrestled with for years.

The Deploy & Draw replicates Cold War ideas and then the pre-stocks fowardly stored. With Heavy forces, You just can't get there fast enough. This gets a sizeable force into 'harms way' to delay for the follow on force.

Cost of transportation became a strong motive (as I understand the roots of 'Deploy & Draw')

In 1998 & 2000, I was in a 'K4' (M1A2) tank Bn. We had to retro- train young soldiers on the M1A1's who only had experience on M1A2's. As well as re-learn ourselves. When returning to home station, we had to relearn the M1A2.

I won't even go into our return from Bosnia, not having been on M1A2's for almost a year.....(ouch!!!)

Anyway, taking your stuff, has its benefits. Not all positive, since home station vehicles did't get any sort of parts priority. It gets broke at NTC, it may stay broke at home station.

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:43 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

- SFC_Jeff_Button


....Many, many stories both good and sad to tell. I was there when the three scout Bradley's from HHC 2-7IN, 24th ID went over the cliff at night and killed the platoon sergeant and platoon leader. The MSG was less than a year from retirement and the 1LT was one of the most liked officers in the company. Eleven other soldiers were badly injured in the roll-overs and medivac'd.
Enough blabbing for now.


Jeff

Was that in a 'Heavy / Light rotation in 1993? Something similiar happened to the follow-on rotation when I was with 1st Cav Div rotation in July 93.

In 2000, my Companies supply truck 'rolled' off the 'escarpment'. It got plowed over a cliff by a fuel Hemmit that lost its brakes. No fatalities, but supply asst was crushed when thrown out of driver seat, causing total paralysis from neck down.

Enough depressing stuff....
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:43 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

Well, I guess if we are going to play blasts from the past, here's one, "Mojave Chief" `79. Irwin wasn't the NTC you all learned to love yet. We were out there for 6 weeks. I was a F.O. for C Btry. 1/20FA 4ID, when they were still at Carson. We had to draw a bunch `o junk from 40ID CAARNG. 13B's, while some nice guys, are sometimes not the brightest bulbs in the box. We were the only Btry that didn't bring our own vehicles. So the Gunbunnies had to draw M109's from 40ID. When I say M109's, I'm talking about M109A0's...short tube like in`Nam. Our guys had M109A1's, with the longer tube, back at Carson. So they go out to shoot. They set up their nets, which are these ancient burlap things from like WWII, that came with the guns. They set them up like they always did back at Carson. Anyone see this one coming yet? Well, anyway, they get a fire mission. First gun shoots, and you guessed it...net burst into flames. I think I may be paraphrasing here, but it was something like"Oh sh**! These things have shorter tubes. Didn't think about that". I was driving a XM577 that had been re-built in Bobbligen Germany in `68, and yes it was a gasser. Manage to seperate both the heads on the engine. Some real yuckster blew my trimvane off by setting a bangolor off a little to close to my track. Saw a M48A5 out there with a name I really liked, "Israeli Edsel". Oh, did I mention I got out to Irwin and back from Carson driving a M151A2? We were out there when they took the embassey in Iran. So by virtue of being at Irwin at that point in time, we became the most desert trained unit in the Army, and was attached to XVIII Airborne Corp for about 5 days incase we went to war that week.Oh well, a fun time was had by all.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum