±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 242
Total: 242
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Downloads
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Downloads
20: Home
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Photo Gallery
25: Home
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Downloads
30: Downloads
31: Downloads
32: Downloads
33: Home
34: Downloads
35: Downloads
36: Downloads
37: Home
38: Downloads
39: Community Forums
40: Downloads
41: Downloads
42: Downloads
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Home
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: Home
49: Photo Gallery
50: Community Forums
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Home
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: CPGlang
61: Community Forums
62: Your Account
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: CPGlang
69: Home
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Downloads
75: Home
76: Member Screenshots
77: Downloads
78: Downloads
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Downloads
83: Downloads
84: Home
85: Downloads
86: Downloads
87: Downloads
88: Downloads
89: Home
90: Home
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Downloads
98: Home
99: Downloads
100: Downloads
101: Home
102: Home
103: Downloads
104: Community Forums
105: Downloads
106: Home
107: Downloads
108: News Archive
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: CPGlang
115: Downloads
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Member Screenshots
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: CPGlang
122: CPGlang
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Downloads
127: Downloads
128: Home
129: Home
130: Downloads
131: Downloads
132: Home
133: Downloads
134: Downloads
135: Downloads
136: Downloads
137: Home
138: Home
139: Downloads
140: Community Forums
141: Home
142: Downloads
143: Home
144: Home
145: Home
146: Downloads
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Photo Gallery
154: Downloads
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Downloads
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Downloads
164: Downloads
165: Home
166: Community Forums
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: CPGlang
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Downloads
176: Community Forums
177: Photo Gallery
178: Downloads
179: Home
180: CPGlang
181: Community Forums
182: Downloads
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Member Screenshots
191: Community Forums
192: CPGlang
193: Home
194: CPGlang
195: Photo Gallery
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Home
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: CPGlang
202: CPGlang
203: Community Forums
204: Downloads
205: Community Forums
206: Home
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Community Forums
210: Downloads
211: Home
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Downloads
216: Home
217: Downloads
218: Downloads
219: Downloads
220: Downloads
221: Downloads
222: Downloads
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Home
226: Member Screenshots
227: Downloads
228: Community Forums
229: Member Screenshots
230: Home
231: Your Account
232: Home
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Downloads
236: Home
237: Downloads
238: Photo Gallery
239: Community Forums
240: CPGlang
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
NTC Desert Guard 87
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:04 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

The Dreaded turn in at NTC,
I have both good and bad experiences at the place. Good being how my troops performed under such unrealistic expectations. Bad in how STUPID and wasteful the whole system was set up. My last few times there I pretty much resigned myself to the fact that whatever you drew it was crap. The funny part was near the end the equipment (M1's) were actually better than what we had at home. Newer too. Shortly after Desert Storm NTC got a bunch of M1's in that came from deactivated units. Pretty nice stuff but you would find some strange surprises in odd loations when you took them apart, let us say some folks hid things hoping to get stuff back from theater, finding out later that they would not get the same tank back in the states. I saw my first Pulse Jet air cleaner system there (only place I had it), experienced my first AIM M1 too. I think the saddest thing about the whole draw and turn in set up at NTC was that it forced soldiers to do a lot of shady underhanded things in order to turn in a tank. We called it "Yuck" maintenance. You didn't fix it right, you just rigged it to pass the inspector. You didn't care as long as you got rid of the vehicle, it was now the next guys problem. I actully witnessed the rigging of a Driver's instument panel so it would read full when the power was on to keep from draining and replacing the fuel sensors in the tanks. The crew RTV'd the botton 2 inches of the cones so if the inspector checked the level from the fuel caps it look full. That's what happens when they all of a sudden say "Oh by the way, you now need to change out the sensors, sorry." after saying it was ok earlier. Another really stupid thing they would do is make you sit and wait for parts on back order. The part usually being some insignificant pin or do-hicky that would take all of 5 minutes to install by an operator. All they had to do is just put the part in the tank and let the next crew install it when they came in. I can't remember the wise officer who quoted "NTC is the Army's official Hazing, you don't get much out of it except the fact that you can say you did it" Why else would you still be issued shelter halves. When's the last time you've seen US soldiers sleep in a pup tent when deployed. I will say one good thing about drawing a Tank though. It don't follow you home. I took a tank and spent about 2 months repairing it at home station because our priority for parts was zero.

Dontos, Debbie was alright, along with the group she worked with. It just takes one A--Hole in a position of authority and a grudge (usually a former soldier, kicked out for drugs/discipline) to mess it up for everyone. Jeff said it all.

Just a litte rant, NTC PTSD Smile

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:48 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

The 'Debbie' I knew there was Debbie Hayes. She was a turret mechanic.

It was my experience that the biggest A-holes there were the ones who had never been in the service. The vets had an idea what it was like in the Army but the non-vets were clueless. They should have only hired ex-army people.

It was BS awaiting the parts that never would come in. That should never have been done on non-deadline items.

While I was there I worked on M48A5, M60A1, M60A3 and M1(IP). Had some good times there but then I got to go home at night Smile

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:02 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

- MarkHolloway
The 'Debbie' I knew there was Debbie Hayes. She was a turret mechanic.

It was my experience that the biggest A-holes there were the ones who had never been in the service. The vets had an idea what it was like in the Army but the non-vets were clueless. They should have only hired ex-army people.

It was BS awaiting the parts that never would come in. That should never have been done on non-deadline items.

While I was there I worked on M48A5, M60A1, M60A3 and M1(IP). Had some good times there but then I got to go home at night Smile


I did rotations in...
Jan 86: A Co 2/5 CAV, 1st CAV: We took our M-1's. Oldest in the Army & none in Draw yard (yet)

July 90: C Co 3/70 AR, 5th ID: Drew IPM-1's 'fresh' from POMCUS. Decent Tank, extended rotation for World News Agencies.

June 93: C Co 3/8 Cav, 1st Cav Div: Drew A 'P.O.S.' M1A1. NBC System non-operational (circle X at Draw), 'Thermalized' Engine, Plow Tank.

May 98: HHC 2/12 Cav, 1st Cav Div: S-3 (House of Pain!!)

June 2000: D Co 2/12 Cav, 1st Cav Div: Drew 4- M1A1HA's. Several major deficencies, but a good rotation.

Regards,
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Burik
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:12 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

Interesting stories about turning in equipment... As probably most know, now the units bring their own equipment. I was told since units take much of their own equipment on deployment, they wanted to be able to bring it to the NTC as well, to be sure they were fighting with their own stuff both in practice and in reality.

No more of that doing just enought to get by stuff at the end of an NTC rotation. They have to take it back with them and take care of it at home.

However, nothing is absolute. When I was there recently with the 3rd ID I believe they were using mostly Humvees supplied by the NTC.

Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:28 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

NTC was mostly issuing wheeled vehicles and trailers since most units bring their own armor with them now. The OPFOR's M1's were old, and were used only so the tankers amoung them could keep up on their skills by firing their Tank Tables for qualifications. Otherwise the M1's just sat in the motor pools most of the time. MUCH more maintenance was applied to the old Sheridans, and latter OSV's than the M1's ever saw. Heck, the M1's weren't even deployed in 2005 with the 11th ACR, they drew pre-position stock in theater. The Mortar tracks on the other hand were deployed but once in theater, were used in FOB/Firebase support. That was only half the platoon, (a section). The other half were given Hummers and used as bridge/road guards in and around Abu-Garib area. While a few others helped train Iraqi forces.
Before being stationed at NTC from July 2002 thru June 2006, I did 6 rotations as "Blufor" between 1986 and 2002. Two with 24th ID, one with 3rd ID, 2 with 4th ID, and the one mentioned before with the Ohio National Guard, (I was actually a OPFOR augmentee then).
Many, many stories both good and sad to tell. I was there when the three scout Bradley's from HHC 2-7IN, 24th ID went over the cliff at night and killed the platoon sergeant and platoon leader. The MSG was less than a year from retirement and the 1LT was one of the most liked officers in the company. Eleven other soldiers were badly injured in the roll-overs and medivac'd.
Enough blabbing for now.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:35 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

- Burik
Interesting stories about turning in equipment... As probably most know, now the units bring their own equipment. I was told since units take much of their own equipment on deployment, they wanted to be able to bring it to the NTC as well, to be sure they were fighting with their own stuff both in practice and in reality.

No more of that doing just enought to get by stuff at the end of an NTC rotation. They have to take it back with them and take care of it at home.

However, nothing is absolute. When I was there recently with the 3rd ID I believe they were using mostly Humvees supplied by the NTC.

Bob


The 'take your own stuff' has been wrestled with for years.

The Deploy & Draw replicates Cold War ideas and then the pre-stocks fowardly stored. With Heavy forces, You just can't get there fast enough. This gets a sizeable force into 'harms way' to delay for the follow on force.

Cost of transportation became a strong motive (as I understand the roots of 'Deploy & Draw')

In 1998 & 2000, I was in a 'K4' (M1A2) tank Bn. We had to retro- train young soldiers on the M1A1's who only had experience on M1A2's. As well as re-learn ourselves. When returning to home station, we had to relearn the M1A2.

I won't even go into our return from Bosnia, not having been on M1A2's for almost a year.....(ouch!!!)

Anyway, taking your stuff, has its benefits. Not all positive, since home station vehicles did't get any sort of parts priority. It gets broke at NTC, it may stay broke at home station.

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:43 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

- SFC_Jeff_Button


....Many, many stories both good and sad to tell. I was there when the three scout Bradley's from HHC 2-7IN, 24th ID went over the cliff at night and killed the platoon sergeant and platoon leader. The MSG was less than a year from retirement and the 1LT was one of the most liked officers in the company. Eleven other soldiers were badly injured in the roll-overs and medivac'd.
Enough blabbing for now.


Jeff

Was that in a 'Heavy / Light rotation in 1993? Something similiar happened to the follow-on rotation when I was with 1st Cav Div rotation in July 93.

In 2000, my Companies supply truck 'rolled' off the 'escarpment'. It got plowed over a cliff by a fuel Hemmit that lost its brakes. No fatalities, but supply asst was crushed when thrown out of driver seat, causing total paralysis from neck down.

Enough depressing stuff....
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:43 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

Well, I guess if we are going to play blasts from the past, here's one, "Mojave Chief" `79. Irwin wasn't the NTC you all learned to love yet. We were out there for 6 weeks. I was a F.O. for C Btry. 1/20FA 4ID, when they were still at Carson. We had to draw a bunch `o junk from 40ID CAARNG. 13B's, while some nice guys, are sometimes not the brightest bulbs in the box. We were the only Btry that didn't bring our own vehicles. So the Gunbunnies had to draw M109's from 40ID. When I say M109's, I'm talking about M109A0's...short tube like in`Nam. Our guys had M109A1's, with the longer tube, back at Carson. So they go out to shoot. They set up their nets, which are these ancient burlap things from like WWII, that came with the guns. They set them up like they always did back at Carson. Anyone see this one coming yet? Well, anyway, they get a fire mission. First gun shoots, and you guessed it...net burst into flames. I think I may be paraphrasing here, but it was something like"Oh sh**! These things have shorter tubes. Didn't think about that". I was driving a XM577 that had been re-built in Bobbligen Germany in `68, and yes it was a gasser. Manage to seperate both the heads on the engine. Some real yuckster blew my trimvane off by setting a bangolor off a little to close to my track. Saw a M48A5 out there with a name I really liked, "Israeli Edsel". Oh, did I mention I got out to Irwin and back from Carson driving a M151A2? We were out there when they took the embassey in Iran. So by virtue of being at Irwin at that point in time, we became the most desert trained unit in the Army, and was attached to XVIII Airborne Corp for about 5 days incase we went to war that week.Oh well, a fun time was had by all.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum