±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 572
Total: 572
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Home
04: CPGlang
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Photo Gallery
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Member Screenshots
16: Community Forums
17: Photo Gallery
18: Downloads
19: Community Forums
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Downloads
25: Community Forums
26: CPGlang
27: Home
28: Home
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Home
33: Home
34: Downloads
35: CPGlang
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Downloads
47: Home
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Member Screenshots
56: Photo Gallery
57: Community Forums
58: Downloads
59: Home
60: Photo Gallery
61: Photo Gallery
62: News
63: Home
64: Downloads
65: Your Account
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: CPGlang
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Photo Gallery
74: Community Forums
75: Member Screenshots
76: Community Forums
77: Member Screenshots
78: Community Forums
79: Downloads
80: Home
81: Community Forums
82: Home
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Home
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Home
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: News
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Home
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Photo Gallery
115: Photo Gallery
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Photo Gallery
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: Photo Gallery
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Home
140: Home
141: Home
142: Home
143: Home
144: Home
145: Home
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Home
150: Home
151: Home
152: Home
153: Home
154: Photo Gallery
155: Home
156: Home
157: Home
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: CPGlang
164: Community Forums
165: Home
166: Home
167: Home
168: Home
169: Home
170: Photo Gallery
171: Home
172: Home
173: Member Screenshots
174: CPGlang
175: Home
176: Home
177: Home
178: Home
179: Home
180: Home
181: Home
182: Home
183: Home
184: Home
185: Home
186: Home
187: Downloads
188: Photo Gallery
189: Home
190: Home
191: Home
192: Home
193: Home
194: Home
195: Home
196: Home
197: Home
198: Home
199: Home
200: Home
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Photo Gallery
206: Home
207: Home
208: Statistics
209: Photo Gallery
210: Photo Gallery
211: CPGlang
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: News Archive
222: Home
223: Photo Gallery
224: Photo Gallery
225: Community Forums
226: Photo Gallery
227: Home
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Photo Gallery
233: Downloads
234: Photo Gallery
235: Home
236: CPGlang
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Your Account
247: Downloads
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Photo Gallery
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Home
255: Photo Gallery
256: Community Forums
257: CPGlang
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Home
264: Home
265: Member Screenshots
266: Home
267: Home
268: Home
269: Home
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Home
273: CPGlang
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Photo Gallery
282: Home
283: Home
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Treasury
290: News Archive
291: Photo Gallery
292: Community Forums
293: Statistics
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Downloads
298: Home
299: Downloads
300: Home
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Home
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Downloads
314: Community Forums
315: Home
316: Photo Gallery
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: CPGlang
320: Community Forums
321: Photo Gallery
322: News Archive
323: Community Forums
324: Home
325: Downloads
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Home
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Home
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Statistics
340: Community Forums
341: Home
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Photo Gallery
347: Photo Gallery
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Home
351: Home
352: Community Forums
353: Downloads
354: Community Forums
355: Home
356: Photo Gallery
357: Member Screenshots
358: Community Forums
359: Home
360: Home
361: Community Forums
362: Home
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Photo Gallery
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Photo Gallery
387: Photo Gallery
388: Photo Gallery
389: Photo Gallery
390: Home
391: Statistics
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Photo Gallery
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Photo Gallery
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: News Archive
404: Photo Gallery
405: Community Forums
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Home
412: Photo Gallery
413: Home
414: Home
415: Home
416: Home
417: Home
418: Home
419: Home
420: Home
421: Home
422: Home
423: Home
424: Downloads
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Home
428: Home
429: Home
430: Home
431: Home
432: Home
433: Photo Gallery
434: Photo Gallery
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Photo Gallery
440: Member Screenshots
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Home
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Home
447: Community Forums
448: Photo Gallery
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Photo Gallery
452: Community Forums
453: Home
454: Community Forums
455: Photo Gallery
456: Community Forums
457: Photo Gallery
458: Community Forums
459: Home
460: Home
461: Community Forums
462: News
463: Downloads
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Home
469: Photo Gallery
470: Photo Gallery
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: News Archive
474: Community Forums
475: Photo Gallery
476: Photo Gallery
477: Home
478: CPGlang
479: Photo Gallery
480: Home
481: Home
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Home
485: Member Screenshots
486: Photo Gallery
487: Downloads
488: Community Forums
489: Photo Gallery
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Home
493: Community Forums
494: Home
495: Home
496: Home
497: Home
498: Home
499: Home
500: Home
501: Home
502: Home
503: Home
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Downloads
511: Home
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Member Screenshots
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Photo Gallery
519: Community Forums
520: Photo Gallery
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Photo Gallery
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Home
530: Community Forums
531: Home
532: Community Forums
533: Home
534: Statistics
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Home
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Statistics
542: Photo Gallery
543: Member Screenshots
544: Statistics
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Home
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Photo Gallery
551: Photo Gallery
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: CPGlang
555: Photo Gallery
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Home
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Home
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: CPGlang
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Photo Gallery
569: Community Forums
570: Home
571: Community Forums
572: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
NTC Desert Guard 87
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:04 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

The Dreaded turn in at NTC,
I have both good and bad experiences at the place. Good being how my troops performed under such unrealistic expectations. Bad in how STUPID and wasteful the whole system was set up. My last few times there I pretty much resigned myself to the fact that whatever you drew it was crap. The funny part was near the end the equipment (M1's) were actually better than what we had at home. Newer too. Shortly after Desert Storm NTC got a bunch of M1's in that came from deactivated units. Pretty nice stuff but you would find some strange surprises in odd loations when you took them apart, let us say some folks hid things hoping to get stuff back from theater, finding out later that they would not get the same tank back in the states. I saw my first Pulse Jet air cleaner system there (only place I had it), experienced my first AIM M1 too. I think the saddest thing about the whole draw and turn in set up at NTC was that it forced soldiers to do a lot of shady underhanded things in order to turn in a tank. We called it "Yuck" maintenance. You didn't fix it right, you just rigged it to pass the inspector. You didn't care as long as you got rid of the vehicle, it was now the next guys problem. I actully witnessed the rigging of a Driver's instument panel so it would read full when the power was on to keep from draining and replacing the fuel sensors in the tanks. The crew RTV'd the botton 2 inches of the cones so if the inspector checked the level from the fuel caps it look full. That's what happens when they all of a sudden say "Oh by the way, you now need to change out the sensors, sorry." after saying it was ok earlier. Another really stupid thing they would do is make you sit and wait for parts on back order. The part usually being some insignificant pin or do-hicky that would take all of 5 minutes to install by an operator. All they had to do is just put the part in the tank and let the next crew install it when they came in. I can't remember the wise officer who quoted "NTC is the Army's official Hazing, you don't get much out of it except the fact that you can say you did it" Why else would you still be issued shelter halves. When's the last time you've seen US soldiers sleep in a pup tent when deployed. I will say one good thing about drawing a Tank though. It don't follow you home. I took a tank and spent about 2 months repairing it at home station because our priority for parts was zero.

Dontos, Debbie was alright, along with the group she worked with. It just takes one A--Hole in a position of authority and a grudge (usually a former soldier, kicked out for drugs/discipline) to mess it up for everyone. Jeff said it all.

Just a litte rant, NTC PTSD Smile

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:48 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

The 'Debbie' I knew there was Debbie Hayes. She was a turret mechanic.

It was my experience that the biggest A-holes there were the ones who had never been in the service. The vets had an idea what it was like in the Army but the non-vets were clueless. They should have only hired ex-army people.

It was BS awaiting the parts that never would come in. That should never have been done on non-deadline items.

While I was there I worked on M48A5, M60A1, M60A3 and M1(IP). Had some good times there but then I got to go home at night Smile

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:02 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

- MarkHolloway
The 'Debbie' I knew there was Debbie Hayes. She was a turret mechanic.

It was my experience that the biggest A-holes there were the ones who had never been in the service. The vets had an idea what it was like in the Army but the non-vets were clueless. They should have only hired ex-army people.

It was BS awaiting the parts that never would come in. That should never have been done on non-deadline items.

While I was there I worked on M48A5, M60A1, M60A3 and M1(IP). Had some good times there but then I got to go home at night Smile


I did rotations in...
Jan 86: A Co 2/5 CAV, 1st CAV: We took our M-1's. Oldest in the Army & none in Draw yard (yet)

July 90: C Co 3/70 AR, 5th ID: Drew IPM-1's 'fresh' from POMCUS. Decent Tank, extended rotation for World News Agencies.

June 93: C Co 3/8 Cav, 1st Cav Div: Drew A 'P.O.S.' M1A1. NBC System non-operational (circle X at Draw), 'Thermalized' Engine, Plow Tank.

May 98: HHC 2/12 Cav, 1st Cav Div: S-3 (House of Pain!!)

June 2000: D Co 2/12 Cav, 1st Cav Div: Drew 4- M1A1HA's. Several major deficencies, but a good rotation.

Regards,
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Burik
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:12 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

Interesting stories about turning in equipment... As probably most know, now the units bring their own equipment. I was told since units take much of their own equipment on deployment, they wanted to be able to bring it to the NTC as well, to be sure they were fighting with their own stuff both in practice and in reality.

No more of that doing just enought to get by stuff at the end of an NTC rotation. They have to take it back with them and take care of it at home.

However, nothing is absolute. When I was there recently with the 3rd ID I believe they were using mostly Humvees supplied by the NTC.

Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:28 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

NTC was mostly issuing wheeled vehicles and trailers since most units bring their own armor with them now. The OPFOR's M1's were old, and were used only so the tankers amoung them could keep up on their skills by firing their Tank Tables for qualifications. Otherwise the M1's just sat in the motor pools most of the time. MUCH more maintenance was applied to the old Sheridans, and latter OSV's than the M1's ever saw. Heck, the M1's weren't even deployed in 2005 with the 11th ACR, they drew pre-position stock in theater. The Mortar tracks on the other hand were deployed but once in theater, were used in FOB/Firebase support. That was only half the platoon, (a section). The other half were given Hummers and used as bridge/road guards in and around Abu-Garib area. While a few others helped train Iraqi forces.
Before being stationed at NTC from July 2002 thru June 2006, I did 6 rotations as "Blufor" between 1986 and 2002. Two with 24th ID, one with 3rd ID, 2 with 4th ID, and the one mentioned before with the Ohio National Guard, (I was actually a OPFOR augmentee then).
Many, many stories both good and sad to tell. I was there when the three scout Bradley's from HHC 2-7IN, 24th ID went over the cliff at night and killed the platoon sergeant and platoon leader. The MSG was less than a year from retirement and the 1LT was one of the most liked officers in the company. Eleven other soldiers were badly injured in the roll-overs and medivac'd.
Enough blabbing for now.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:35 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

- Burik
Interesting stories about turning in equipment... As probably most know, now the units bring their own equipment. I was told since units take much of their own equipment on deployment, they wanted to be able to bring it to the NTC as well, to be sure they were fighting with their own stuff both in practice and in reality.

No more of that doing just enought to get by stuff at the end of an NTC rotation. They have to take it back with them and take care of it at home.

However, nothing is absolute. When I was there recently with the 3rd ID I believe they were using mostly Humvees supplied by the NTC.

Bob


The 'take your own stuff' has been wrestled with for years.

The Deploy & Draw replicates Cold War ideas and then the pre-stocks fowardly stored. With Heavy forces, You just can't get there fast enough. This gets a sizeable force into 'harms way' to delay for the follow on force.

Cost of transportation became a strong motive (as I understand the roots of 'Deploy & Draw')

In 1998 & 2000, I was in a 'K4' (M1A2) tank Bn. We had to retro- train young soldiers on the M1A1's who only had experience on M1A2's. As well as re-learn ourselves. When returning to home station, we had to relearn the M1A2.

I won't even go into our return from Bosnia, not having been on M1A2's for almost a year.....(ouch!!!)

Anyway, taking your stuff, has its benefits. Not all positive, since home station vehicles did't get any sort of parts priority. It gets broke at NTC, it may stay broke at home station.

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:43 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

- SFC_Jeff_Button


....Many, many stories both good and sad to tell. I was there when the three scout Bradley's from HHC 2-7IN, 24th ID went over the cliff at night and killed the platoon sergeant and platoon leader. The MSG was less than a year from retirement and the 1LT was one of the most liked officers in the company. Eleven other soldiers were badly injured in the roll-overs and medivac'd.
Enough blabbing for now.


Jeff

Was that in a 'Heavy / Light rotation in 1993? Something similiar happened to the follow-on rotation when I was with 1st Cav Div rotation in July 93.

In 2000, my Companies supply truck 'rolled' off the 'escarpment'. It got plowed over a cliff by a fuel Hemmit that lost its brakes. No fatalities, but supply asst was crushed when thrown out of driver seat, causing total paralysis from neck down.

Enough depressing stuff....
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:43 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

Well, I guess if we are going to play blasts from the past, here's one, "Mojave Chief" `79. Irwin wasn't the NTC you all learned to love yet. We were out there for 6 weeks. I was a F.O. for C Btry. 1/20FA 4ID, when they were still at Carson. We had to draw a bunch `o junk from 40ID CAARNG. 13B's, while some nice guys, are sometimes not the brightest bulbs in the box. We were the only Btry that didn't bring our own vehicles. So the Gunbunnies had to draw M109's from 40ID. When I say M109's, I'm talking about M109A0's...short tube like in`Nam. Our guys had M109A1's, with the longer tube, back at Carson. So they go out to shoot. They set up their nets, which are these ancient burlap things from like WWII, that came with the guns. They set them up like they always did back at Carson. Anyone see this one coming yet? Well, anyway, they get a fire mission. First gun shoots, and you guessed it...net burst into flames. I think I may be paraphrasing here, but it was something like"Oh sh**! These things have shorter tubes. Didn't think about that". I was driving a XM577 that had been re-built in Bobbligen Germany in `68, and yes it was a gasser. Manage to seperate both the heads on the engine. Some real yuckster blew my trimvane off by setting a bangolor off a little to close to my track. Saw a M48A5 out there with a name I really liked, "Israeli Edsel". Oh, did I mention I got out to Irwin and back from Carson driving a M151A2? We were out there when they took the embassey in Iran. So by virtue of being at Irwin at that point in time, we became the most desert trained unit in the Army, and was attached to XVIII Airborne Corp for about 5 days incase we went to war that week.Oh well, a fun time was had by all.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum