±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 401
Total: 401
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Photo Gallery
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Downloads
09: Home
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Member Screenshots
24: Community Forums
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: CPGlang
31: Home
32: Photo Gallery
33: CPGlang
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Home
38: Home
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Home
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Statistics
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Photo Gallery
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Member Screenshots
64: Home
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Photo Gallery
69: Member Screenshots
70: Photo Gallery
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Photo Gallery
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Photo Gallery
82: Home
83: Home
84: Statistics
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Statistics
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Photo Gallery
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: News Archive
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Statistics
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: CPGlang
120: Community Forums
121: Downloads
122: Photo Gallery
123: Community Forums
124: Photo Gallery
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Downloads
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Home
134: Downloads
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Photo Gallery
143: Community Forums
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Downloads
148: Downloads
149: Downloads
150: Community Forums
151: News Archive
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: News Archive
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: News
162: Member Screenshots
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Home
169: Downloads
170: Photo Gallery
171: Community Forums
172: CPGlang
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: CPGlang
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Home
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Downloads
187: Community Forums
188: Photo Gallery
189: Community Forums
190: Downloads
191: Photo Gallery
192: Home
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: CPGlang
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Downloads
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Home
203: Home
204: Downloads
205: Home
206: Home
207: Home
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Home
212: Downloads
213: News Archive
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: Photo Gallery
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Downloads
227: Community Forums
228: Photo Gallery
229: Community Forums
230: Your Account
231: Photo Gallery
232: Statistics
233: Member Screenshots
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: CPGlang
239: Home
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Member Screenshots
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Photo Gallery
247: Member Screenshots
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: News Archive
251: Photo Gallery
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Member Screenshots
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: CPGlang
258: News Archive
259: Community Forums
260: Photo Gallery
261: News Archive
262: Home
263: Community Forums
264: Home
265: Home
266: News Archive
267: Home
268: Home
269: Photo Gallery
270: Downloads
271: Home
272: Home
273: CPGlang
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Home
280: CPGlang
281: Home
282: Downloads
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Downloads
287: Downloads
288: Home
289: Photo Gallery
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: News
293: Home
294: Community Forums
295: Photo Gallery
296: Home
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Photo Gallery
301: Community Forums
302: Your Account
303: Home
304: Home
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Downloads
309: Photo Gallery
310: Photo Gallery
311: Community Forums
312: Home
313: Photo Gallery
314: Home
315: Photo Gallery
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Community Forums
322: Member Screenshots
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Home
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Downloads
330: Statistics
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: News
334: Home
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: Community Forums
339: Photo Gallery
340: Community Forums
341: Photo Gallery
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: Downloads
346: Downloads
347: CPGlang
348: Community Forums
349: Home
350: Community Forums
351: Home
352: Photo Gallery
353: CPGlang
354: Home
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Photo Gallery
360: Member Screenshots
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Search
368: Community Forums
369: Home
370: Photo Gallery
371: Home
372: Photo Gallery
373: Photo Gallery
374: Community Forums
375: Home
376: Home
377: Statistics
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Photo Gallery
382: Home
383: Community Forums
384: Statistics
385: Community Forums
386: Photo Gallery
387: Community Forums
388: CPGlang
389: Community Forums
390: CPGlang
391: Member Screenshots
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Home
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Photo Gallery
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
NTC Desert Guard 87
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:04 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

The Dreaded turn in at NTC,
I have both good and bad experiences at the place. Good being how my troops performed under such unrealistic expectations. Bad in how STUPID and wasteful the whole system was set up. My last few times there I pretty much resigned myself to the fact that whatever you drew it was crap. The funny part was near the end the equipment (M1's) were actually better than what we had at home. Newer too. Shortly after Desert Storm NTC got a bunch of M1's in that came from deactivated units. Pretty nice stuff but you would find some strange surprises in odd loations when you took them apart, let us say some folks hid things hoping to get stuff back from theater, finding out later that they would not get the same tank back in the states. I saw my first Pulse Jet air cleaner system there (only place I had it), experienced my first AIM M1 too. I think the saddest thing about the whole draw and turn in set up at NTC was that it forced soldiers to do a lot of shady underhanded things in order to turn in a tank. We called it "Yuck" maintenance. You didn't fix it right, you just rigged it to pass the inspector. You didn't care as long as you got rid of the vehicle, it was now the next guys problem. I actully witnessed the rigging of a Driver's instument panel so it would read full when the power was on to keep from draining and replacing the fuel sensors in the tanks. The crew RTV'd the botton 2 inches of the cones so if the inspector checked the level from the fuel caps it look full. That's what happens when they all of a sudden say "Oh by the way, you now need to change out the sensors, sorry." after saying it was ok earlier. Another really stupid thing they would do is make you sit and wait for parts on back order. The part usually being some insignificant pin or do-hicky that would take all of 5 minutes to install by an operator. All they had to do is just put the part in the tank and let the next crew install it when they came in. I can't remember the wise officer who quoted "NTC is the Army's official Hazing, you don't get much out of it except the fact that you can say you did it" Why else would you still be issued shelter halves. When's the last time you've seen US soldiers sleep in a pup tent when deployed. I will say one good thing about drawing a Tank though. It don't follow you home. I took a tank and spent about 2 months repairing it at home station because our priority for parts was zero.

Dontos, Debbie was alright, along with the group she worked with. It just takes one A--Hole in a position of authority and a grudge (usually a former soldier, kicked out for drugs/discipline) to mess it up for everyone. Jeff said it all.

Just a litte rant, NTC PTSD Smile

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:48 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

The 'Debbie' I knew there was Debbie Hayes. She was a turret mechanic.

It was my experience that the biggest A-holes there were the ones who had never been in the service. The vets had an idea what it was like in the Army but the non-vets were clueless. They should have only hired ex-army people.

It was BS awaiting the parts that never would come in. That should never have been done on non-deadline items.

While I was there I worked on M48A5, M60A1, M60A3 and M1(IP). Had some good times there but then I got to go home at night Smile

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:02 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

- MarkHolloway
The 'Debbie' I knew there was Debbie Hayes. She was a turret mechanic.

It was my experience that the biggest A-holes there were the ones who had never been in the service. The vets had an idea what it was like in the Army but the non-vets were clueless. They should have only hired ex-army people.

It was BS awaiting the parts that never would come in. That should never have been done on non-deadline items.

While I was there I worked on M48A5, M60A1, M60A3 and M1(IP). Had some good times there but then I got to go home at night Smile


I did rotations in...
Jan 86: A Co 2/5 CAV, 1st CAV: We took our M-1's. Oldest in the Army & none in Draw yard (yet)

July 90: C Co 3/70 AR, 5th ID: Drew IPM-1's 'fresh' from POMCUS. Decent Tank, extended rotation for World News Agencies.

June 93: C Co 3/8 Cav, 1st Cav Div: Drew A 'P.O.S.' M1A1. NBC System non-operational (circle X at Draw), 'Thermalized' Engine, Plow Tank.

May 98: HHC 2/12 Cav, 1st Cav Div: S-3 (House of Pain!!)

June 2000: D Co 2/12 Cav, 1st Cav Div: Drew 4- M1A1HA's. Several major deficencies, but a good rotation.

Regards,
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Burik
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:12 pm
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

Interesting stories about turning in equipment... As probably most know, now the units bring their own equipment. I was told since units take much of their own equipment on deployment, they wanted to be able to bring it to the NTC as well, to be sure they were fighting with their own stuff both in practice and in reality.

No more of that doing just enought to get by stuff at the end of an NTC rotation. They have to take it back with them and take care of it at home.

However, nothing is absolute. When I was there recently with the 3rd ID I believe they were using mostly Humvees supplied by the NTC.

Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:28 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

NTC was mostly issuing wheeled vehicles and trailers since most units bring their own armor with them now. The OPFOR's M1's were old, and were used only so the tankers amoung them could keep up on their skills by firing their Tank Tables for qualifications. Otherwise the M1's just sat in the motor pools most of the time. MUCH more maintenance was applied to the old Sheridans, and latter OSV's than the M1's ever saw. Heck, the M1's weren't even deployed in 2005 with the 11th ACR, they drew pre-position stock in theater. The Mortar tracks on the other hand were deployed but once in theater, were used in FOB/Firebase support. That was only half the platoon, (a section). The other half were given Hummers and used as bridge/road guards in and around Abu-Garib area. While a few others helped train Iraqi forces.
Before being stationed at NTC from July 2002 thru June 2006, I did 6 rotations as "Blufor" between 1986 and 2002. Two with 24th ID, one with 3rd ID, 2 with 4th ID, and the one mentioned before with the Ohio National Guard, (I was actually a OPFOR augmentee then).
Many, many stories both good and sad to tell. I was there when the three scout Bradley's from HHC 2-7IN, 24th ID went over the cliff at night and killed the platoon sergeant and platoon leader. The MSG was less than a year from retirement and the 1LT was one of the most liked officers in the company. Eleven other soldiers were badly injured in the roll-overs and medivac'd.
Enough blabbing for now.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:35 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

- Burik
Interesting stories about turning in equipment... As probably most know, now the units bring their own equipment. I was told since units take much of their own equipment on deployment, they wanted to be able to bring it to the NTC as well, to be sure they were fighting with their own stuff both in practice and in reality.

No more of that doing just enought to get by stuff at the end of an NTC rotation. They have to take it back with them and take care of it at home.

However, nothing is absolute. When I was there recently with the 3rd ID I believe they were using mostly Humvees supplied by the NTC.

Bob


The 'take your own stuff' has been wrestled with for years.

The Deploy & Draw replicates Cold War ideas and then the pre-stocks fowardly stored. With Heavy forces, You just can't get there fast enough. This gets a sizeable force into 'harms way' to delay for the follow on force.

Cost of transportation became a strong motive (as I understand the roots of 'Deploy & Draw')

In 1998 & 2000, I was in a 'K4' (M1A2) tank Bn. We had to retro- train young soldiers on the M1A1's who only had experience on M1A2's. As well as re-learn ourselves. When returning to home station, we had to relearn the M1A2.

I won't even go into our return from Bosnia, not having been on M1A2's for almost a year.....(ouch!!!)

Anyway, taking your stuff, has its benefits. Not all positive, since home station vehicles did't get any sort of parts priority. It gets broke at NTC, it may stay broke at home station.

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:43 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

- SFC_Jeff_Button


....Many, many stories both good and sad to tell. I was there when the three scout Bradley's from HHC 2-7IN, 24th ID went over the cliff at night and killed the platoon sergeant and platoon leader. The MSG was less than a year from retirement and the 1LT was one of the most liked officers in the company. Eleven other soldiers were badly injured in the roll-overs and medivac'd.
Enough blabbing for now.


Jeff

Was that in a 'Heavy / Light rotation in 1993? Something similiar happened to the follow-on rotation when I was with 1st Cav Div rotation in July 93.

In 2000, my Companies supply truck 'rolled' off the 'escarpment'. It got plowed over a cliff by a fuel Hemmit that lost its brakes. No fatalities, but supply asst was crushed when thrown out of driver seat, causing total paralysis from neck down.

Enough depressing stuff....
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:43 am
Post subject: Re: NTC Desert Guard 87

Well, I guess if we are going to play blasts from the past, here's one, "Mojave Chief" `79. Irwin wasn't the NTC you all learned to love yet. We were out there for 6 weeks. I was a F.O. for C Btry. 1/20FA 4ID, when they were still at Carson. We had to draw a bunch `o junk from 40ID CAARNG. 13B's, while some nice guys, are sometimes not the brightest bulbs in the box. We were the only Btry that didn't bring our own vehicles. So the Gunbunnies had to draw M109's from 40ID. When I say M109's, I'm talking about M109A0's...short tube like in`Nam. Our guys had M109A1's, with the longer tube, back at Carson. So they go out to shoot. They set up their nets, which are these ancient burlap things from like WWII, that came with the guns. They set them up like they always did back at Carson. Anyone see this one coming yet? Well, anyway, they get a fire mission. First gun shoots, and you guessed it...net burst into flames. I think I may be paraphrasing here, but it was something like"Oh sh**! These things have shorter tubes. Didn't think about that". I was driving a XM577 that had been re-built in Bobbligen Germany in `68, and yes it was a gasser. Manage to seperate both the heads on the engine. Some real yuckster blew my trimvane off by setting a bangolor off a little to close to my track. Saw a M48A5 out there with a name I really liked, "Israeli Edsel". Oh, did I mention I got out to Irwin and back from Carson driving a M151A2? We were out there when they took the embassey in Iran. So by virtue of being at Irwin at that point in time, we became the most desert trained unit in the Army, and was attached to XVIII Airborne Corp for about 5 days incase we went to war that week.Oh well, a fun time was had by all.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum